News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[AdventureHasAName]

They have actively admitted that if Disney changed its tune and changed its content they would be open to reversing course.

Who is "they"?

 

[Brian]

So your position (and understanding of 1st Amendment law) is that the state of NJ (in the hypothetical) must subsidize Sparkle's anti-LGBTQ Klan editorials forever?

There will come a time when the incumbent governor and even the incumbent legislators are out office. Until that time, it would take a competent and unbiased judge or panel of judges to determine if those statements are evidence of "chilling speech" and if they can be tied to the decision to revoke the tax subsidy. There is no cut and dry answer - that's why we need judges, especially when it comes to matters of constitutional law.

 

[EeyoreFan#24]

On the public safety comments relating to possible “crippling” of county budgets.

This overview of RCFD poped in my news feed today. It’s older, but a good review of their services.

Reedy Creek: The happiest fire department on earth

As the sole provider of emergency services for Walt Disney World properties in Orlando, Fla., Reedy Creek Professional Firefighters have one of the most unique missions in the country

www.firerescue1.com

Regardless if it will cripple the budget or not, it’s not a good thing to dump a specialized department into the county decision making process. Who will get the nod for extra equipment, extra training, extra staffing if it’s Disney vs the local residents (who vote for the now decision makers btw)

Sheriff coverage is basically a contract city which would just become “public” responsibility, but that’s all I really know about that side. The reedy creek coverage might be lower than the Disney property coverage which I would assume Disney pays for special duty on private property, but not 100% on that either.

 

[kalel8145]

 

[MagicRat]

Overstepping it's bounds? It's not like the political left tried to force 100,000,000 American workers at private companies and an additional 4,000,000 federal employees and 5,000,000 contractors to receive a vaccine, potentially against their will. Do you forget how they forced private landlords to let rent-delinquent tenants stay on their property in perpetuity until the SCOTUS had to stop them not once, but twice?

Oh, and who can forget when Gavin Newsom dictated that Disneyland and other parks stay closed for over a year while WDW operated perfectly fine? Do you forget how that same Governor was repeatedly caught in violation of his own mask mandates while he was having businesses fined or even shut down for violating themselves?

I normally bite my tongue on these things, but surely you're smart enough to realize that the political left isn't some innocent baby in the race towards authoritarianism in this country. In fact, I'd argue they're ahead of the pack.

No, you are 100 percent right comparing regulations to confront a once in a 100 year pandemic to a bill separating someone by a basis of sexual orientation and then allowing a state government to infringe on local politics because they didn’t like what a corporation in that local county did about it. The Conservative party has jumped the shark. The party who prides itself on staying out of over governing is the law writing monster now.

Your comparison is definitely apples to apples on this one. I mean no one on that side of the aisle was scared of the “pandemic” aids and made that a separation issue either. Nope no mob mentality from the right. Religious conservatism brewed bad for the republicans in the 1990’s. I used to be one and couldn’t believe where the party was going. Now the loud and proud party of former democrat Trump has taken it to an extreme far worse.

Maybe you might want to go after something other than the pandemic, although I get it that created even more hysteria for the new new new right.

 

[peter11435]

So your position (and understanding of 1st Amendment law) is that the state of NJ (in the hypothetical) must subsidize Sparkle's anti-LGBTQ Klan editorials forever?

It doesn’t really matter what I think what matters is what the law and constitution states.

The state of NJ would need to continue with the tax break for as long as the tax break was originally stated for, unless the company violated terms or laws that could be arguably used against the tax break.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

There will come a time when the incumbent governor and even the incumbent legislators are out office. Until that time, it would take a competent and unbiased judge or panel of judges to determine if those statements are evidence of "chilling speech" and if they can be tied to the decision to revoke the tax subsidy. There is no cut and dry answer - that's why we need judges, especially when it comes to matters of constitutional law.

But what if everyone in the state of NJ (including every current and future state elected official) publicly hates the Ku Klux Klan? Is it your position that under those circumstances, the state of NJ must subsidize the Klan editorials forever?

EDIT: I keep asking this repeatedly because there are two defensible answers:

1. Yes, first amendment law mandates the state of NJ subsidize Ku Klux Klan editorials forever, or
2. No, that's absurd. If that were true, then a conservative legislature could grant an entity like the NRA unbelievable benefits and then if the legislature ever switched parties, the liberal legislature couldn't rescind it because everyone knows liberals hate the NRA. And the same thing would be true of a liberal legislature granting benefits to Planned Parenthood.

 

[Brian]

On the public safety comments relating to possible “crippling” of county budgets.

This overview of RCFD poped in my news feed today. It’s older, but a good review of their services.

Reedy Creek: The happiest fire department on earth

As the sole provider of emergency services for Walt Disney World properties in Orlando, Fla., Reedy Creek Professional Firefighters have one of the most unique missions in the country

www.firerescue1.com

Regardless if it will cripple the budget or not, it’s not a good thing to dump a specialized department into the county decision making process. Who will get the nod for extra equipment, extra training, extra staffing if it’s Disney vs the local residents (who vote for the now decision makers btw)

Sheriff coverage is basically a contract city which would just become “public” responsibility, but that’s all I really know about that side. The reedy creek coverage might be lower than the Disney property coverage which I would assume Disney pays for special duty on private property, but not 100% on that either.

I believe that, if this actually does go through and Disney is entirely at the mercies of Orange and Osceola counties come June of next year, the plan is to try to hire on as many of the current RCID Fire and Rescue folks as possible, given, as you mentioned, the specialized nature of their work as it relates to things like the Skyliner or some attractions.

Law enforcement coverage is already contracted out, independent of RCID, to the Orange County Sheriff's Office. It is paid for by Disney.

 

[peter11435]

Who is "they"?

Members of the Florida legislature and administration

 

[lazyboy97o]

But what if everyone in the state of NJ (including every current and future state elected official) publicly hates the Ku Klux Klan? Is it your position that under those circumstances, the state of NJ must subsidize the Klan editorials forever?

Did they not cover free speech in law school? The government can’t punish speech they don’t like. That’s it. Flat out.

 

[flynnibus]

I love it when peoole wear their ignorance on their sleeve with such memes. Makes it much quicker to move on.

 

[EeyoreFan#24]

I believe that, if this actually does go through and Disney is entirely at the mercies of Orange and Osceola counties come June of next year, the plan is to try to hire on as many of the current RCID Fire and Rescue folks as possible, given, as you mentioned, the specialized nature of their work as it relates to things like the Skyliner or some attractions.

Law enforcement coverage is already contracted out, independent of RCID, to the Orange County Sheriff's Office. It is paid for by Disney.

I think they would, it makes sense and initially it would be little notice beside logos, uniforms, etc. I mostly wonder about two or three years down the road when the “regular course of business” kicks in.

Thanks. So it sounds like the sheriff would change really at all then.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Members of the Florida legislature and administration

Who?

 

[flynnibus]

 

[Brian]

No, you are 100 percent right comparing regulations to confront a once in a 100 year pandemic to a bill separating someone by a basis of sexual orientation and then allowing a state government to infringe on local politics because they didn’t like what a corporation in that local county did about it. The Conservative party has jumped the shark. The party who prides itself on staying out of over governing is the law writing monster now.

Your comparison is definitely apples to apples on this one. I mean no one on that side of the aisle was scared of the “pandemic” aids and made that a separation issue either. Nope no mob mentality from the right. Religious conservatism brewed bad for the republicans in the 1990’s. I used to be one and couldn’t believe where the party was going. Now the loud and proud party of former democrat Trump has taken it to an extreme far worse.

Maybe you might want to go after something other than the pandemic, although I get it that created even more hysteria for the new new new right.

Not sure I understand your argument here. If you're stating that the political right has changed then yes, I'd agree. Just as a reminder, it was the Democrats who fought a civil war to try to maintain slavery.

Your position that I originally replied to was that the political right are the authoritarian ideologues, and, presumably, worse than the political left. I offered several recent examples of how the left, which controls the levers of power in this country, has abused those powers in the name of public health. In a constitutional republic, one does not simply get to override the rule of law because "people are dying." And if the current laws (including the constitution) do not serve the public health needs, it is up to the people's democratically elected representatives to change them. I've noticed that there has been no serious proposal from anyone in the Democrat party on the federal level to reform these public health-related laws to allow the executive branch the authority they unlawfully used this time around. Have you considered why that is?

As I stated earlier in response to another member, I would argue that the executive overreaches and impositions on the lives of ordinary Americans by the Democrat party as it relates to the pandemic are worse and far more consequential than a petty political argument between a governor and one of the largest and most powerful companies on earth. Both are bad, in my opinion, but one is decidedly worse than the other, and that's where you and I seem to disagree.

If you'd like to discuss this further, I'd be glad to do so via PM. I am catching myself drifting too far off topic from RCID and want to try to be respectful towards the wishes of our hosts.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Based on the interviews with DeSantis, it seems like they just want Disney to pay more in taxes and remove their ability to build a nuclear power plant. I don't think anyone (Republican or Democrat) wants to see the District actually dissolve.

They shouldn't worry about Disney building a nuclear power plant. Universal still has the theme park rights to the Simpsons for a little while longer.

 

[Polkadotdress]

Who?

 

[kalel8145]

I love it when peoole wear their ignorance on their sleeve with such memes. Makes it much quicker to move on.

yet you stopped and replied.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Does she get a vote?

 

[Brian]

But what if everyone in the state of NJ (including every current and future state elected official) publicly hates the Ku Klux Klan? Is it your position that under those circumstances, the state of NJ must subsidize the Klan editorials forever?

EDIT: I keep asking this repeatedly because there are two defensible answers:

1. Yes, first amendment law mandates the state of NJ subsidize Ku Klux Klan editorials forever, or
2. No, that's absurd. If that were true, then a conservative legislature could grant an entity like the NRA unbelievable benefits and then if the legislature ever switched parties, the liberal legislature couldn't rescind it because everyone knows liberals hate the NRA. And the same thing would be true of a liberal legislature granting benefits to Planned Parenthood.

I understand the philosophical quandary you are presenting here, and certainly how it relates to the RCID situation, however, the first amendment is not there to suit the political whims of those in power at any given moment. In fact, in reading writings by the Founding Fathers, you could surmise that the first amendment was put into place to protect speech one disagrees with, not to prop up the speech those in power concur with.

I believe the point you are trying to make is that if the ideological makeup of the Executive and Legislative branches of the New Jersey government somehow remains the same in perpetuity, there would never be a "good opportunity" to remove the tax exemption without appearing to be retaliating against the views of the publication. If that were the case, then the government would have to either: A.) Bite their tongue and let it be, which would be the "safest" option, or B.) Do what Gov. DeSantis and the legislature did in Florida, and eliminate the tax exemption, while letting the courts decide if it was a violation of the company's first amendment rights.

If "option B" is opted for, and the courts decide that it was unlawful of the state to remove the tax exemption because the evidence is clear that it was done because of the views the company espoused, then I suppose there's your answer.