News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[JohnD]

It is nicer than the old.

And using just "district" is a cheeky way of not coming down on the competing Boards. They won't have to re-do it if it goes back to RCID.

1. "Nicer than the old". I guess a matter of opinion but, my admittedly quick scan of FD logos on Google shows the same symbiology of hat, axe, ladder, etc. so your statement seems to be a sweeping condemnation of most FD logos
2. I get the use of "District". But, come on, the central image is the orange tree of the CFTOD logo. If the district goes back to RCID, you can be certain there will be a re-do of the logo. Why maintain a CFTOD logo?

 

[Figgy1]

We've been repeatedly and VERY POLITELY asked if we have problems with moderation to PM the mods and not discuss in the main threads

 

[flynnibus]

That's a good example. Should the same oversight be applied to the railroad too? If not, what makes it different?


It's related though. The logical route here is that the new oversight legislation was done to create leverage over Disney, not for actual safety reasons. With that logic, the obvious question is, how many different things could the legislation apply to based on how it's written. Meaning, what makes it the monorail only and not Peter Pan or the railroad.

One path of that logic says the legislation is vague enough that it applies to all of them. The leverage could be applied by including Perter Pan in the oversight and forcing Disney to fight or comply with that.

The other path of logic says, they're clearly different and the legislation doesn't apply to both.

If we accept the first, anything that even looks like it might apply can be used as leverage. On the other hand, if we discard that as simply ridiculous and we're on the second path, the question changes slightly. It becomes, is the new oversight leverage being used in a detrimental way or just applying similar standards as before. If its the same as before, just a different label on the safety forms but the same actual real work, then it just gets ignored.

However, if the new oversight is being used for leverage and in an onerous way, how to mitigate that leverage becomes important. They could fight the law. They could fight that the law is being applied in an invalid way. They could just shutdown the monorail, eliminating any impacts from oversight but losing the capability. Or, they could change the monorail so that it no longer meets the definition of what is subject to oversight.

If we accept that the monorail and Peter Pan are different, or the monorail and the train. The last option to remove the leverage is to change the monorail so it's no longer subject to this oversight. Even if that replaces it with different oversight. I'm assuming all amusement park rides are subject to oversight too, just by something different. Clearly, the change would need to be enough to satisfy everyone, including the NTSB here. Unless the NTSB also oversees amusement park rides.

Is it just putting up tap points and requiring a Magic Kingdom ticket or Epcot ticket depending on which route you want to ride? Or, would it be more extensive? Do they have to more the platforms inside the park fences? For instance, is the track all on Disney property or is some of it district right of way? It's probably hard to have an amusement park ride on a public right of way.

This all assumes that the new oversight is creating problems, which may not be the case at all and it doesn't matter.

Let's keep this really simple - the new legislation did not introduce any change of nomenclature or definition of systems. It simply changed WHICH were in scope by expanding beyond publicly owned or financed, to include privately owned ones in independent districts.

You're going through a bunch of hypotheticals that are completely unnecessary.

Fixed guideway systems is defined as
"(2) “Fixed-guideway transportation system” means a public transit system for the transporting of people by a conveyance, or a series of interconnected conveyances, which conveyance or series of conveyances is specifically designed for travel on a stationary rail or other guideway, whether located on, above, or under the ground."

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

The question is "public transit system" -- and this is something the NTSB has already set precedent to declare the monorail as one when they decided to claim jurisdiction after the 2009 accident.

Things like Peter Pan obviously are not 'public transit systems' no matter how much you draw comparisons to people getting on or off - Their purpose is to entertain, not move people as part of some intermodal transportation system.

Disney clearly uses the monorails, skyliner, and the likes as transportation systems... and because the railroad also serves to move people between stations as a form of traversing the park, that too could be an issue of labeling it 'transportation'. But railway systems already have their own definitions and coverage in the law as rail systems.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

1. "Nicer than the old". I guess a matter of opinion but, my admittedly quick scan of FD logos on Google shows the same symbiology of hat, axe, ladder, etc. so your statement seems to be a sweeping condemnation of most FD logos
2. I get the use of "District". But, come on, the central image is the orange tree of the CFTOD logo. If the district goes back to RCID, you can be certain there will be a re-do of the logo. Why maintain a CFTOD logo?

It’s like the cops on TV shows work for the “Metro PD”…I know they don’t anticipate it, but it just looks VERY temporary and generic…

 

[Lilofan]

The simple answer is yes. Our mortgage has already gone up because of higher taxes and insurance rates. Desantis's revenge on blue counties. I'm not sure it's related directly to reedy creek but it sure was timely.
Also, I'm from Miami, and we still call the stadium Joe Robbie, so I'll probably call this Reedy Creek forever, too.

Should have gotten a fixed rate mortgage , just sayin.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Should have gotten a fixed rate mortgage , just sayin.

A fixed interest rate only fixes the interest rate, not the property taxes and insurance.

 

[MisterPenguin]

1. "Nicer than the old". I guess a matter of opinion but, my admittedly quick scan of FD logos on Google shows the same symbiology of hat, axe, ladder, etc. so your statement seems to be a sweeping condemnation of most FD logos

That's a ridiculous mischaracterization of what I said.

 

[Gringrinngghost]

The Reedy Creek Fire Department has been officially rebranded today.

Look on the bright side, Lawsuits aside, this is the most generic name for when the CFOTD loses. so it won't be that hard to change,

 

[MichWolv]

A better question might be, if the new regulation becomes a problem and is used in a bad faith way, what would it take to change the Disney Monorail from a 'fixed guideway transportation system' into an amusement park ride?

Meaning, what could be done to the Disney Monorail to make it more like Peter Pan or Space Mountain and less like the MCO terminal train?

There is a possible answer for this in Japan. At Tokyo Disney, the monorail carries a fee and the railroad goes roundtrip with no opportunity to get off elsewhere. This is because, I understand, of a Japanese law requiring that trains with more than one stop (that therefore operate as transportation) must have a separate fee.

So make the monorail a roundtrip where you get off where you got on, and it's not transportation anymore - just a ride.

 

[JohnD]

There is a possible answer for this in Japan. At Tokyo Disney, the monorail carries a fee and the railroad goes roundtrip with no opportunity to get off elsewhere. This is because, I understand, of a Japanese law requiring that trains with more than one stop (that therefore operate as transportation) must have a separate fee.

So make the monorail a roundtrip where you get off where you got on, and it's not transportation anymore - just a ride.

That would be completely impossible to do at WDW. The Epcot line has two stops. And whether Express or Resort monorail there a multiple stops -- two on the Express and five on the resort monorail. Can you imagine if what is the resort monorail now was roundtrip only from MK? Well, fine, you've just made a ride of the monorail but have totally destroyed the Poly, GF, and Contemporary Resorts as deluxe resorts.

 

[tidalwave142003]

guess they will need alot more buses

 

[mkt]

Should have gotten a fixed rate mortgage , just sayin.

Pretty sure they meant PITI, not just mortgage.

 

[Alanzo]

Reedy or Not, a haiku

Champions of this,
Peaking in high school halls past,
Echoes of glory.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Just "speaking my truth" according to my "lived experience."

This does not mean what you think it means.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

people with brain worms are best left ignored

Please don't question my lived experience.

This is a pretty incredible self-own.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I highly doubt the monorail will be forgotten. It's been a staple of WDW since 1971. I get being upset about the new law that carved out inspections of the monorail. But you're extrapolating a lot of what the district could do to it. The inspections are specific to FDOT only. Let's not get carried away here.

I'm not getting carried away at all. All the clues to the future are staring us in the face and so many refuse to understand the consequences of ignoring them. The Monorail is just an example of things that could happen. Being a fixture since 1971 has absolutely no guarantee's that it has to continue. Think of all the other things that existed for many years that are now gone.

 

[mikejs78]

I'm not getting carried away at all. All the clues to the future are staring us in the face and so many refuse to understand the consequences of ignoring them. The Monorail is just an example of things that could happen. Being a fixture since 1971 has absolutely no guarantee's that it has to continue. Think of all the other things that existed for many years that are now gone.

There's a lot of DVC owners who purchased to be in the monorail resorts. There would be a fairly significant uproar if the monorail was canned.

 

[Touchdown]

There's a lot of DVC owners who purchased to be in the monorail resorts. There would be a fairly significant uproar if the monorail was canned.

It would need to be replaced by fast transportation to MK and Epcot. Not to mention, the MK needs more than the ferries to transport guests to the parking lot. I would expect a light rail to be the only possible replacement.

 

[mmascari]

I would expect a light rail to be the only possible replacement.

That would be subject to the same oversight. Oversight being abused to create leverage on Disney as the premise for this change.

My guess is they would rearrange the fencing around the stations and ticket validation. Move the entire monorail inside the park boundary and then claim it's an amusement park ride fully contained inside the park and subject to different oversight. Only after they fight whatever the oversight abuse is happening in court first.

 

[Tom P.]

WDW has 25 resorts and MK is the only one that is serviced by the Monorail (I'm not talking parks here but if I were talking about parks it is only two of them. Of the twenty five resorts only ONE has the monorail, but just how much of a drop in attendance would that cost the MK park? I'd guess none and if it is none the hotels will still be attractions in themselves and will continue to be popular because the the overlook MK and not how they get to MK. Right now it is much, much faster to walk to MK from the Contemporary then to ride the Monorail, and both have multiple ways to get there (i.e. walk, boat or bus and future modes to be introduced).

WDW has three resorts that are served by the monorail -- Contemporary, Polynesian, and Grand Floridian. And, yes, I believe it would definitely impact bookings at those resorts if the monorail no longer serviced them. Not to mention all of the people who bought DVC at those properties on the basis of the monorail.