News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Stripes]

It's desperation, knowing they're running out of levers to pull.

If they are running out of levers to pull that’d be a good thing. Every single lever should be pulled.

 

[Brian]

You saying that because you know it... or because you think so?

The new budget doesn't show a reduction of staff to be replaced by these contracts.

The district setup a whole new Department for this year 'Security & Emergency Management' where they are housing these expenses.. where they call out their plan for this 2.2 million in outside contracting expenses -

And they also call out in the same presentation the transfer of 2.3 million of outside contracting services from the Facilities Dept to the new Security & EM department. And in prior years the Facilities Group only had 15 operating staff (non-management) total.

Doesn't look like they were performing these same tasks with District employees, but instead had outside sourcing and the budget for that has been transfered to the new department.

I haven't gone back far enough, but I'd wager those outside services before probably were contracted to Disney.

It's certainly possible they were contractors. I based my statement on the fact that they have RCID badges and nametags.

 

[afterabme]

It wasn’t very long ago that the Florida parks were also doing incredibly well. There’s been a slight decrease but still doing well over 20% more business than pre-Covid. Furthermore, tourism tax dollars across Central Florida are down, suggesting that the softening demand is certainly not attributable to Disney.

Sales tax collection is down across multiple Florida counties. Including Pinellas, Hillsborough, Broward, Monroe, and Miami-Dade.

Some counties ar even taking a second look at their project funded with TDT, because of the decrease.

Florida is no longer the big destination for revenge tourism like it was in 21 or 22.

 

[Lilofan]

Sales tax collection is down across multiple Florida counties. Including Pinellas, Hillsborough, Broward, Monroe, and Miami-Dade.

Some counties ar even taking a second look at their project funded with TDT, because of the decrease.

Florida is no longer the big destination for revenge tourism like it was in 21 or 22.

Not good, FL sales tax help fund tourist locations, education and social services and other areas.

 

[monothingie]

It wasn’t very long ago that the Florida parks were also doing incredibly well. There’s been a slight decrease but still doing well over 20% more business than pre-Covid. Furthermore, tourism tax dollars across Central Florida are down, suggesting that the softening demand is certainly not attributable to Disney.

Through metrics reported in the media, we've heard that Spring 2023 was down 5-10% from Spring 2022 and Summer 2023 was down 20-25% from Summer 2022.

Other type destinations such as DCL and the other cruise lines out of Port Canaveral are experiencing record bookings. Port Canaveral has moved more people through it this year than ever before.

Even with the different economic conditions between 2023 and 2019 and the current inflation crisis, people are still spending on leisure travel, but the spending behavior is different. The difference now is that people are being more selective in their vacation planning. A major factor in this is perceived value. Amazingly DCL as expensive as it is compared to their competition is still seen as a value and experiencing unprecedented demand. Unfortunately it seems that WDW is not as desirable as a destination as it had been for the various reasons. This is directly attributable to Disney (WDW). This also affects USO and other surrounding attractions as well because out of state guests choosing not to visit WDW will be less likely to visit other Central Florida attractions on their own.

 

[Stripes]

Through metrics reported in the media, we've heard that Spring 2023 was down 5-10% from Spring 2022 and Summer 2023 was down 20-25% from Summer 2022.

Other type destinations such as DCL and the other cruise lines out of Port Canaveral are experiencing record bookings. Port Canaveral has moved more people through it this year than ever before.

Even with the different economic conditions between 2023 and 2019 and the current inflation crisis, people are still spending on leisure travel, but the spending behavior is different. The difference now is that people are being more selective in their vacation planning. A major factor in this is perceived value. Amazingly DCL as expensive as it is compared to their competition is still seen as a value and experiencing unprecedented demand. Unfortunately it seems that WDW is not as desirable as a destination as it had been for the various reasons. This is directly attributable to Disney (WDW). This also affects USO and other surrounding attractions as well because out of state guests choosing not to visit WDW will be less likely to visit other Central Florida attractions on their own.

Have you considered the possibility that DCL, just like the other cruise lines, are still in the midst of the “revenge travel” phase? Cruises returned far later than when WDW reopened.

Again, WDW is still well above pre-Covid levels.

 

[mikejs78]

Through metrics reported in the media, we've heard that Spring 2023 was down 5-10% from Spring 2022 and Summer 2023 was down 20-25% from Summer 2022.

Other type destinations such as DCL and the other cruise lines out of Port Canaveral are experiencing record bookings. Port Canaveral has moved more people through it this year than ever before.

Even with the different economic conditions between 2023 and 2019 and the current inflation crisis, people are still spending on leisure travel, but the spending behavior is different. The difference now is that people are being more selective in their vacation planning. A major factor in this is perceived value. Amazingly DCL as expensive as it is compared to their competition is still seen as a value and experiencing unprecedented demand. Unfortunately it seems that WDW is not as desirable as a destination as it had been for the various reasons. This is directly attributable to Disney (WDW). This also affects USO and other surrounding attractions as well because out of state guests choosing not to visit WDW will be less likely to visit other Central Florida attractions on their own.

These discussions really aren't relevant to this thread. Please don't derail the conversation here. There are plenty of other threads where WDW's softening demand can be discussed.

 

[monothingie]

Again, WDW is still well above pre-Covid levels.

That is factually not true…unless you are comparing 2022 to 2012.

“The 2022 TEA/AECOM Theme Index Report is out, and once again, Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom tops the list as the world's most-visited theme park, attracting a reported 17.13 million visitors in 2022. That's a 35% increase over the previous year's attendance, though still down from 2019's 20.96 million.”

Similarly EPCOT, DAK, and DHS also recorded fewer visitors than in 2019.

 

[monothingie]

These discussions really aren't relevant to this thread. Please don't derail the conversation here. There are plenty of other threads where WDW's softening demand can be discussed.

Disney touted their economic importance as a PR move in hopes of gaining leverage in their dispute with the state and governor. It does not derail the conversation to point out that Disney’s own actions have been far more detrimental to the well being of the Florida Economy which Disney now suddenly seems to care about for their own self-serving purposes in this idiotic dispute they can’t seem to get themselves out of.

 

[Isamar]

The Court Minutes for Disney continuance motion are online now but they don’t really tell us anything new. (I don’t know how common ex parte discovery motions are, so I can’t say whether there’s any significance to her mention of them.)

 

[James Alucobond]

Disney touted their economic importance as a PR move in hopes of gaining leverage in their dispute with the state and governor. It does not derail the conversation to point out that Disney’s own actions have been far more detrimental to the well being of the Florida Economy which Disney now suddenly seems to care about for their own self-serving purposes in this idiotic dispute they can’t seem to get themselves out of.

This makes no sense. Up or down in terms of how well they're doing, they are still tremendously economically important to the state. The job of RCID/CFTOD is to support their ability to contribute to Florida's economy, not hinder it. Even if we suppose Disney is damaging their own business in some way, adding CFTOD woes on top of that only compounds the problem. What exactly are you suggesting they do here?

 

[Stripes]

That is factually not true…unless you are comparing 2022 to 2012.

“The 2022 TEA/AECOM Theme Index Report is out, and once again, Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom tops the list as the world's most-visited theme park, attracting a reported 17.13 million visitors in 2022. That's a 35% increase over the previous year's attendance, though still down from 2019's 20.96 million.”

Similarly EPCOT, DAK, and DHS also recorded fewer visitors than in 2019.

TEA numbers are not official and many have reported that they are inaccurate. Regardless, I was referring to business results, not attendance.

 

[James Alucobond]

Where does it say that the job of CFTOD is to make it easier for Disney to make money? Do Disney’s interests necessarily align with the public interest? That seems to be at the heart of this idiotic dispute right?

I didn't say their job is to make it easier for Disney to make money. It is to facilitate recreation and tourism in the area by providing essential public services. Disney is the primary landowner and taxpayer; therefore, CFTOD's services primarily support them in their endeavors.

Disney reminding people of their economic relevance sort of looses a lot of the impact when Disney themselves, through their own actions, have demonstrated they are more than capable hurting the economy that they claim to be so critical to.

Hurting the economy that ... they entirely provide? Again, any resort will have ups and downs. It doesn't make sense to hinder Disney's ability to contribute to area tourism if you honestly believe they're struggling.

 

[Chi84]

This thread seems to have regressed all the way back to the beginning. Maybe the latecomers can spend some time reading the issues that have been rehashed ad nauseam before making the same arguments again.

 

[Brian]

But just saying what you feel the law should be isn't a legal opinion or analysis; it's your personal feeling. Unless I missed an earlier post, which is entirely possible.

It was intended to be a statement of my personal feeling, not a legal analysis.

 

[Chi84]

It was intended to be a statement of my personal feeling, not a legal analysis.

In that case, a whole lot of people agree with you for reasons entirely unrelated to the subject matter of this thread.

 

[flynnibus]

Denying TWDC a subservient regulatory body is hardly a violation of their rights.

And you know what... you will not find that claim in Disney's lawsuits either... because that's not what the complaint was. You're going to have a hard time arguing against Disney's claims if you can't even point at them clearly.

 

[Stripes]

Even your statement in moving the goal posts is factually wrong. Revenue from Florida Parks is still down compared to 2019. Mostly due to increased labor and other costs that offset gains from increased per guest revenue from increased prices and services like G+.

From the beginning I have been talking about business results. And although you confuse revenue and income, you are still incorrect. Operating income is up even higher than revenue.

“Even in the case of Walt Disney World, where we have a tough comparison to the prior year, when you look at this year‘s numbers, compared to pre-pandemic levels in fiscal ‘19, we have seen growth in revenue and operating income of over 25 and 30% respectively.” -Bob Iger, Q4 Results Conference Call, page 8.

https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/app/uploads/2023/11/q4-fy23-earnings-transcript.pdf

 

[Batman'sParents]

Well Stripes. I’d say this one was certainly a bullseye. Bazinga!

Well done.

I'm just trying to imagine if the district actually had been dissolved. Ignoring the massive debt burden that Orange and Osceola would have had to deal with, the whole thing would have happened without a transition period. Emergency services switch to Orange/Osceola Fire and EMS, permitting goes to those respective counties, and eventually, some new limited districts are established on WDW by both counties but they wouldn't have the same abilities/powers as a state-backed district.


The state could have done it, but the fallout would have been yucky for the counties and that's putting it mildly.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm just trying to imagine if the district actually had been dissolved. Ignoring the massive debt burden that Orange and Osceola would have had to deal with, the whole thing would have happened without a transition period. Emergency services switch to Orange/Osceola Fire and EMS, permitting goes to those respective counties, and eventually, some new limited districts are established on WDW by both counties but they wouldn't have the same abilities/powers as a state-backed district.


The state could have done it, but the fallout would have been yucky for the counties and that's putting it mildly.

In the past, bonds have kept organizations from being dissolved. The dissolution violated the terms of the bonds and likely would have prevented immediate dissolution.

The counties could not create new districts over the most important areas because they are incorporated municipalities. Things like emergency services and building authority would have fallen to the cities, not the counties.