Chi84
Premium Member
I seriously doubt any of the lawyers are filing false pleadings. There is a difference between facts and the legal conclusions that can be drawn from those facts. Most of the hyperbole involves the latter.
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News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District
- Thread starter castlecake2.0
- Start date
Most charging documents include intent and state of mind. Intent is tough to prove on a thought and state of mind is even harder. A charging document has multiple parts, so lets just use your "King of Egypt" for an example. The charging document echoes the charge which would be in the federal, state, or local criminal code. So if the criminal code read "if a person a. knowingly attempted to defraud another b. with intent to defraud c. by impersonating the identity of Egyptian Royalty then they have committed X crime. Then you have to prove a person knowingly attempted to defraud by knowing they were impersonating Egypt royalty. You have to prove each part of that. Even if defrauding was their true intent. If you can't prove that they didn't believe they weren't Egyptian royalty then you have no case. This is a stretch but I am a retired LEO and I have seen many good cases gone south by a bad choice of charges. If you over reach on charges that are tough to prove, most times you don't win. Back then DA's wanted the big headlines in a re-election year. Now I just wish the DA's would prosecute crime.
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lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
It is not the basis of a recent indictment that has made national headlines.
Perjury is committed under oath. Lying is generally protect speech. It’s only in specific circumstances that it is not protected and in more specific circumstances that one becomes criminally liable.
How would that work mechanically?
The state lawyers propose a settlement by agreeing that the legislature passes a new law undoing the law that was already passed?
I understand how the court can rule that the law is unconstitutional. But, how would a state lawyer create that outcome?
I suppose Disney could file a motion for judgement requesting that, and then the state lawyers could file a motion agreeing that Disney's motion is correct instead of a response about why it's wrong. Still doesn't mean the judge needs to agree and rule for Disney. That would certainly be a wild motion to file. "May it please the court, we agree with the plaintiff, they are correct, we agree the law as passed violates the constitution and the legislature screwed up."
flynnibus
Premium Member
Well obviously that depends on the choice of action. Kinda pointless to talk about 'how' without knowing what the desired outcome is. Point is, I think you have a showdown here that NEITHER side wants to fight.. but neither side can just walk away from either given the current state. This is the muck I don't have a good idea on what that kind of proposal could be.
New article from the Orlando Sentinel.
"Glen Gilzean, the head of Gov. Ron DeSantis’ Disney World oversight district, has continued to serve as the chairman of Florida’s ethics commission, despite a state law that members of the government watchdog panel cannot hold “public employment.”
Florida law specifies that “no member may hold any public employment” and serve on the ethics board. Gilzean was hired by the governor-appointed Central Florida Tourism Oversight District in May, drawing a $400,000-a-year salary from the special taxing district.
The Florida Bulldog, an investigative news website, revealed Gilzean’s potential conflict of interest, which had gone publicly unnoticed.
Gilzean attended ethics commission meetings in June and July, videos of those meetings show.
Gilzean’s dual roles as ethics commissioner and government administrator appear to violate state law, said Michael Barfield, director of public access initiatives for the Florida Center for Government Accountability.
“The legal requirements are there for a reason, and that is for transparency and to prevent conflicts of interest,” he said. “You can’t be sitting in a watchdog capacity in the position of the ethics commission and at the same time be … subject to the authority of the ethics commission. That is an inherent conflict of interest.”
A tourism district spokesman referred questions Monday to the Commission on Ethics. A spokeswoman for the Commission on Ethics did not respond to an email and phone message seeking comment.
Gilzean could not be reached by phone. A DeSantis spokesman also did not respond to an email seeking comment.
The nine-member ethics commission is tasked with investigating complaints of “breach of the public trust by public officers and employees.” With a staff of about 25 employees, the commission describes itself as the “guardian of the standards of conduct for officers and employees of Florida.”
Board members, appointed by DeSantis and the leaders of the Florida House and Senate, do not receive a salary from the state.
DeSantis first appointed Gilzean to the ethics commission in 2019. He was elected chairman in January. His term on the commission expires in June 2024."
Full article below.
www.orlandosentinel.com
"Glen Gilzean, the head of Gov. Ron DeSantis’ Disney World oversight district, has continued to serve as the chairman of Florida’s ethics commission, despite a state law that members of the government watchdog panel cannot hold “public employment.”
Florida law specifies that “no member may hold any public employment” and serve on the ethics board. Gilzean was hired by the governor-appointed Central Florida Tourism Oversight District in May, drawing a $400,000-a-year salary from the special taxing district.
The Florida Bulldog, an investigative news website, revealed Gilzean’s potential conflict of interest, which had gone publicly unnoticed.
Gilzean attended ethics commission meetings in June and July, videos of those meetings show.
Gilzean’s dual roles as ethics commissioner and government administrator appear to violate state law, said Michael Barfield, director of public access initiatives for the Florida Center for Government Accountability.
“The legal requirements are there for a reason, and that is for transparency and to prevent conflicts of interest,” he said. “You can’t be sitting in a watchdog capacity in the position of the ethics commission and at the same time be … subject to the authority of the ethics commission. That is an inherent conflict of interest.”
A tourism district spokesman referred questions Monday to the Commission on Ethics. A spokeswoman for the Commission on Ethics did not respond to an email and phone message seeking comment.
Gilzean could not be reached by phone. A DeSantis spokesman also did not respond to an email seeking comment.
The nine-member ethics commission is tasked with investigating complaints of “breach of the public trust by public officers and employees.” With a staff of about 25 employees, the commission describes itself as the “guardian of the standards of conduct for officers and employees of Florida.”
Board members, appointed by DeSantis and the leaders of the Florida House and Senate, do not receive a salary from the state.
DeSantis first appointed Gilzean to the ethics commission in 2019. He was elected chairman in January. His term on the commission expires in June 2024."
Full article below.
DeSantis’ Disney board chief faces scrutiny over ethics role
Glen Gilzean, who heads both Gov. Ron DeSantis’ Disney World oversight district and Florida’s Ethics Commission, is facing questions over whether he can fill both roles under state law.
www.orlandosentinel.com
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
A mediator would not have the authority to compel the state legislature.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I believe ultimately Disney will prevail in federal court.
The question is will it matter?
By not getting out in front…they may have lost their arrangement for good. And that is a miscalculation
Realistically, outside of communicating via attorneys.
A few ways and there are more
1. New Governor in 2027 proposes new legislation to remedy the situation.
2. Disney’s government relations team and lobbyists in Tallahassee work closely on the Plaza Level.
3. Both sides eventually send out signals and send out representatives to meet and talk over situation. As laid out in this CNN article, in May 2022, Treadwell and Ben Watkins visited RCID to meet with the top admins of the District but then stopped all contact. It’s possible for a legislative fix but lots of hurdles to clear. Finding a genie bottle might be easier, but only time will tell.
How Disney maneuvered to save its Florida kingdom, leaving DeSantis threatening retaliation | CNN Politics
In his yearlong battle with Disney, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has repeatedly leaned on the element of surprise in his attempts to outmaneuver the entertainment giant and its army of executives, high-priced lawyers and politically connected lobbyists.
amp.cnn.com
GrumpyFan
Well-Known Member
I don't know how these things work, but IF they win in Federal court, couldn't the judge then order the state to pay punitive damages and overturn the laws that stripped RCID and replaced it with CFTOD? I mean, that's the best case scenario. Not sure what other options a judge might award them if it's decided in their favor.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Realistically, outside of communicating via attorneys.
A few ways and there are more
1. New Governor in 2027 proposes new legislation to remedy the situation.
2. Disney’s government relations team and lobbyists in Tallahassee work closely on the Plaza Level.
3. Both sides eventually send out signals and send out representatives to meet and talk over situation. As laid out in this CNN article, in May 2022, Treadwell and Ben Watkins visited RCID to meet with the top admins of the District but then stopped all contact. It’s possible for a legislative fix but lots of hurdles to clear. Finding a genie bottle might be easier, but only time will tell.
How Disney maneuvered to save its Florida kingdom, leaving DeSantis threatening retaliation | CNN Politics
In his yearlong battle with Disney, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has repeatedly leaned on the element of surprise in his attempts to outmaneuver the entertainment giant and its army of executives, high-priced lawyers and politically connected lobbyists.
Yeah I'm not concerned about physically how they do it.
What I can't rationalize at this point is WHAT they would target as the acceptable end-state for both parties. What is the compromise they would settle on? This is the part I can't conceive a setting that works for everyone in ways they would be willing to give up right now. My point is 'whats the target we all agree on?' -- That's the thing I think is most convoluted.
Mechanics are easily addressed if all parties are pushing for the same goal.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Disney is not seeking nor can they win punitive damages.
This is the closest thing I can find talking about a potential compromise between both sides from December 2022:
Florida prepares U-turn on Disney’s ‘Don’t Say Gay’ punishment | Financial Times
Lawmakers seek compromise preserving theme park operator’s right to run private government
www.ft.com
This version never came to pass. But, it does show conversations were happening in the past…
GrumpyFan
Well-Known Member
My bad. Sorry, IANAL, so I just make it up as I go along, and it sounded good.
What about the possibility of the law(s) being overturned? I've only skimmed some of the suits they cited but it seems like this has happened more than once in cases where First Amendment violations were alleged.
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JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
The wolf is guarding the henhouse.......New article from the Orlando Sentinel.
"Glen Gilzean, the head of Gov. Ron DeSantis’ Disney World oversight district, has continued to serve as the chairman of Florida’s ethics commission, despite a state law that members of the government watchdog panel cannot hold “public employment.”
Florida law specifies that “no member may hold any public employment” and serve on the ethics board. Gilzean was hired by the governor-appointed Central Florida Tourism Oversight District in May, drawing a $400,000-a-year salary from the special taxing district.
The Florida Bulldog, an investigative news website, revealed Gilzean’s potential conflict of interest, which had gone publicly unnoticed.
Gilzean attended ethics commission meetings in June and July, videos of those meetings show.
Gilzean’s dual roles as ethics commissioner and government administrator appear to violate state law, said Michael Barfield, director of public access initiatives for the Florida Center for Government Accountability.
“The legal requirements are there for a reason, and that is for transparency and to prevent conflicts of interest,” he said. “You can’t be sitting in a watchdog capacity in the position of the ethics commission and at the same time be … subject to the authority of the ethics commission. That is an inherent conflict of interest.”
A tourism district spokesman referred questions Monday to the Commission on Ethics. A spokeswoman for the Commission on Ethics did not respond to an email and phone message seeking comment.
Gilzean could not be reached by phone. A DeSantis spokesman also did not respond to an email seeking comment.
The nine-member ethics commission is tasked with investigating complaints of “breach of the public trust by public officers and employees.” With a staff of about 25 employees, the commission describes itself as the “guardian of the standards of conduct for officers and employees of Florida.”
Board members, appointed by DeSantis and the leaders of the Florida House and Senate, do not receive a salary from the state.
DeSantis first appointed Gilzean to the ethics commission in 2019. He was elected chairman in January. His term on the commission expires in June 2024."
Full article below.
DeSantis’ Disney board chief faces scrutiny over ethics role
Glen Gilzean, who heads both Gov. Ron DeSantis’ Disney World oversight district and Florida’s Ethics Commission, is facing questions over whether he can fill both roles under state law.
Chi84
Premium Member
Yes. Disney is asking for a declaratory judgment (a determination or finding by the federal court) that certain laws passed by the Florida legislature are unlawful and unenforceable because they violated Disney’s constitutional rights. They are also asking that Florida be prevented from enforcing those laws.My bad. Sorry, IANAL, so I just make it up as I go along, and it sounded good.
What about the possibility of the law(s) being overturned? I've only skimmed some of the suits they cited but it seems like this has happened more than once in cases where First Amendment violations were alleged.
Vacationeer
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
Is ESPN taking bets yet on whether Gilzean will step down as Ethics’ Chair or give up his $400k CFTOY gig?
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
…who’s their new bookie partner?
