News Red Car Trolley to close February 8, 2025

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
So I’m not really sure who DCA being inferior to Disneyland impacts?

I know I went almost 10 years without visiting DCA. A park hopper was $60 extra, and it meant I was devaluing my already overpriced Disneyland Ticket by spending a portion of my day in a far worse park when I had paid for access to Disneyland.

Like I said, if DCA was $50 cheaper, I'd be buying day tickets to DCA a lot more often. But you can't sell the junky cheap coffee maker at the same price as one of the best coffee makers on the market. The lesser park should be the value experience. You get less. But you pay less.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I know I went almost 10 years without visiting DCA. A park hopper was $60 extra, and it meant I was devaluing my already overpriced Disneyland Ticket by spending a portion of my day in a far worse park when I had paid for access to Disneyland.

Like I said, if DCA was $50 cheaper, I'd be buying day tickets to DCA a lot more often. But you can't sell the junky cheap coffee maker at the same price as one of the best coffee makers on the market. The lesser park should be the value experience. You get less. But you pay less.

Ok they’ll just raise Disneylands price by $50. Lol. Problem solved. But seriously tickets are so expensive and there’s so much to do at Disneyland that I don’t think a one day park hopper makes sense for the large majority of non AP guests. Even if it was TDS across the esplanade. Two or more day park hoppers then yes. Unless of course someone is savvy enough, has some must do attractions over at DCA and knows exactly what they want out of the day.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
Ok they’ll just raise Disneylands price by $50. Lol. Problem solved. But seriously tickets are so expensive and there’s so much to do at Disneyland that I don’t think a one day park hopper makes sense for the large majority of non AP guests. Even if it was TDS across the esplanade. Two or more day park hoppers then yes. Unless of course someone is savvy enough, has some must do attractions over at DCA and knows exactly what they want out of the day.
If TDS was across the esplanade, I would be happily paying Disneyland prices and would certainly take advantage of park hopping as I would be able to ride great rides like TOT, JttCotE, 20KL, Sinbad, Indiana Jones, Frozen Journey, Neverland Adventure, plus all the great vibe rides like the elevated train, Aquatopia, Raging Spirits, Midway Mania. Plus the park is gorgeous from top to bottom as opposed to OC Fair DCA with two good looking, albeit, stunted areas.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Again everyone seems to be missing the forest thru the trees here, stuck only on one thing.
You’re kinda stuck on one thing too though….
do you think it’s value will go up enough to be worth its price?
I don’t think its value is that bad now for someone who hasn’t visited before. I mean compared to Disneyland yes, but there are great things at the park - easy to fill a whole day for sure.
 

Professortango1

Well-Known Member
DCA's must-do's include RSR, Grizzly River Run, Tower of Terror, California Screamin, Soarin' over California, and World of Color. Only two of those must-do's even exist anymore. With all of these attractions, as well as no Aladdin in the Hyperion, there's no purpose in buying a single day pass to DCA and RSR and GRR aren't worth an extra $60.
GRR is a D+ at best for me. Pretty landscaping, but no show scenes or sense of play unlike Popeye at IOA. Soarin has always been a huge disappointment for me, feeling like a museum IMAX film rather than a Disney quality attraction.

I do miss Screamin. That was a great vibe ride overall. The new ride has the same weaknesses of some ugly views, but the constant jabbering of the soundtrack is so annoying. It's a headphone ride now .
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
If TDS was across the esplanade, I would be happily paying Disneyland prices and would certainly take advantage of park hopping as I would be able to ride great rides like TOT, JttCotE, 20KL, Sinbad, Indiana Jones, Frozen Journey, Neverland Adventure, plus all the great vibe rides like the elevated train, Aquatopia, Raging Spirits, Midway Mania. Plus the park is gorgeous from top to bottom as opposed to OC Fair DCA with two good looking, albeit, stunted areas.

I would buy a single day ticket to TDS for sure. Just saying the demo that a single day park hopper ticket for a park right next to Disneyland makes sense for is rather small. Which goes back to my original point that DCA being inferior to Disneyland isn’t a detriment to very many guests. It’s a bonus park for passholders and people on vacation will spend the extra bucks for a park hopper when they re already spending thousands. Even if it’s just a park hopper for one of the park days. Sure, it would be great if TDS stood where DCA is but DCA works as a compliment to Disneyland for the vast majority of guests.
 

Consumer

Well-Known Member
If TDS was across the esplanade, I would be happily paying Disneyland prices and would certainly take advantage of park hopping as I would be able to ride great rides like TOT, JttCotE, 20KL, Sinbad, Indiana Jones, Frozen Journey, Neverland Adventure, plus all the great vibe rides like the elevated train, Aquatopia, Raging Spirits, Midway Mania. Plus the park is gorgeous from top to bottom as opposed to OC Fair DCA with two good looking, albeit, stunted areas.
Frankly, I'd be willing to pay more for TDS than TDL. What does TDL really offer that I can't get stateside other than Splash Mountain, an unchanged PotC, and top notch maintenance on all their attractions? Sure, there's Pooh's Hunny Hunt, Beauty and the Beast, and Ride & Go Seek, but none of those are particularly my interest. TDS is far more intriguing of a park with themes and attractions that better suit my interests.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
You’re kinda stuck on one thing too though….

I don’t think its value is that bad now for someone who hasn’t visited before. I mean compared to Disneyland yes, but there are great things at the park - easy to fill a whole day for sure.
I was asking a specific question that most posters have avoided. I’ve answered all the questions posed to me, so no I haven’t been stuck on one thing. The thing is several posters are trying to do this comparison to DL, and as I said DCA never will be a comparable park so don’t know why posters are stuck on that in terms of price other than to say that don’t want to visit DCA for any price.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
You can easily do a majority of the rides at two parks if you know what you’re doing, especially if you do LL I give you my day yesterday:
-Peter Pan (walk on Early Entry)
-Toad (5 min early entry)
-Dumbo (5 min early entry)
-Snow White (10 min early entry)
-Alice (walk on, it opened in front of me)
-Nemo (walk on)
-Space Mountain (10 min)
-Star Tours (10 min)
-Buzz (5 min)
-Matterhorn (10 min)
-MMRR (15 min)
-Train Toontown to NOS (5 min)
-*Indiana Jones (15 min, LL)
-Jungle Cruise (10 min)
—Beniget break—
-Pooh (10 min)
-Rise (30 min)
-MFSR (10 min)
-BTMRR (15 min)
-Pinocchio (10 min)
-Storybook Cruise (10 min)
-Train Toontown to MSUSA (5 min)
-Mermaid (5 min)
—Wine Country Trattoria late lunch—
-*Guardians (10 min, LL)
-*Soarin (15 min, LL)
—A Christmas Fantasy Parade and change into warm clothes (90 min break in all—
-*TSMM (5 min, LL)
—Gheredelli Sundae Break—
-RSR (30 min)
-Monsters Inc (10 min, Buddy Pass)
—Believe in Holiday Magic, World of Color Season of Light show break (2 hours)—
-*iasw holiday (5 min, LL)
-*BTMRR (5 min, LL)
-Pirates (walk on)
-Mansion (walk on)
-Sweeper Train NOS to MSUSA

32 rides, a parade, 2 nighttime spectaculars. Didn’t get on Incridicoaster because it went down, also didn’t get a ride on Web Slingers and Rodger Rabbit because it didn’t work out timing wise, it was my day to do DL rides I do once per trip, so they ended up being sacrificed. I don’t think I’ve ever spent a day in CA not going to both parks.

Edit-Forgot about MMRR.
 
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mickEblu

Well-Known Member
You can easily do a majority of the rides at two parks if you know what you’re doing, especially if you do LL I give you my day yesterday:
-Peter Pan (walk on Early Entry)
-Toad (5 min early entry)
-Dumbo (5 min early entry)
-Snow White (10 min early entry)
-Alice (walk on, it opened in front of me)
-Nemo (walk on)
-Space Mountain (10 min)
-Star Tours (10 min)
-Buzz (5 min)
-Matterhorn (10 min)
-Train Toontown to NOS (5 min)
-*Indiana Jones (15 min, LL)
-Jungle Cruise (10 min)
—Beniget break—
-Pooh (10 min)
-Rise (30 min)
-MFSR (10 min)
-BTMRR (15 min)
-Pinocchio (10 min)
-Storybook Cruise (10 min)
-Train Toontown to MSUSA (5 min)
-Mermaid (5 min)
—Wine Country Trattoria late lunch—
-*Guardians (10 min, LL)
-*Soarin (15 min, LL)
—A Christmas Fantasy Parade and change into warm clothes (90 min break in all—
-*TSMM (5 min, LL)
—Gheredelli Sundae Break—
-RSR (30 min)
-Monsters Inc (10 min, Buddy Pass)
—Believe in Holiday Magic, World of Color Season of Light show break (2 hours)—
-*iasw holiday (5 min, LL)
-*BTMRR (5 min, LL)
-Pirates (walk on)
-Mansion (walk on)
-Sweeper Train NOS to MSUSA

31 rides, a parade, 2 nighttime spectaculars. Didn’t get on Incridicoaster because it went down, also didn’t get a ride on Web Slingers and Rodger Rabbit because it didn’t work out timing wise, it was my day to do DL rides I do once per trip, so they ended up being sacrificed. I don’t think I’ve ever spent a day in CA not going to both parks.

Lol there is nothing easy about this and this takes expert level park knowledge. Impressive though!

Looks like you went on a good day. Seeing lots of low standby waits. That won’t always be the case. Also doing this with a large group is almost impossible. Kids in tow? Forget about it.
 
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Professortango1

Well-Known Member
I was asking a specific question that most posters have avoided. I’ve answered all the questions posed to me, so no I haven’t been stuck on one thing. The thing is several posters are trying to do this comparison to DL, and as I said DCA never will be a comparable park so don’t know why posters are stuck on that in terms of price other than to say that don’t want to visit DCA for any price.
You said DCA could never be comparable, but based on what? You're saying that Disney isn't capable of creating attractions and lands better than they did in the 60's?

When we look at the Disneyland classic E's (POTC, HM, SM, Splash, BTMRR, Matterhorn) its not that difficult to do something similar in scale and majesty. Given how technology has progressed, it's even easier than when these attractions were built. And they can be based on newer interests and concepts rather than things that were popular 50 years ago. Plus a Darkride cluster based on new Disney/Pixar films.

Had DCA opened with a long indoor E-ticket omnimover or flume, a well themed coaster, and a collection of 3-4 charming smaller darkrides; it would have been a whole different story. Instead we got a lifeless GRR, a proof-of-concept-themed IMAX experience, and two well done theatre shows cloned from Florida. When Muppet Vision and Tough to be a Bug are your best experiences in the park by far, you don't offer a lot of variety.

While adding Radiator Springs has helped a ton, that is the only massive improvement that has really affected my part experience. Buena Vista street is lovely, but it doesn't offer anything other than generic shopping. Its like Main Street without the Firehouse, Movie Theatre, Opera House show, and Magic Shop. And, let's be honest, RS is a well executed looking land with only one good attraction. Had they built a cute dakride where Luigi's sits and/or a drive-in experience, it would be a land I spend time in rather than walking through to get to RSR.

The simple fact is that nothing was preventing DCA from overshadowing DL other than nostalgia. EPIC Universe is a brand-new park that will likely overshadow all of the WDW parks. And Disney chose to make DCA and DL comparable by pricing them the same and trying to sell the park as comparable to one another. They knew they had a stinker on their hand and instead of pricing it appropriately, they abused our goodwill.

As for the argument about Castle Parks being the known parks by the public, that's because they are the consistent park. They are the brand park, essentially. They all have castles, similar layouts and lands, similar attractions and experiences. No matter which part of the world you are in, your castle park is pretty similar overall to the others. But look at USO. The Studio park is a copy of the Hollywood park original, but IOA overshadows that tried-and-true branded park experience. Why? More interesting lands and attractions.

And as for the unvoiced argument that Disney's Florida project had multiple parks for years with the same pricing; I'd argue that most of the Florida parks have been half-day parks. They are all a little more lackluster, yet each park contained one or two Disney quality experiences to draw you in. MGM had a working studio, Star Tours, and TOT. AK had Dinosaur and Kilimanjaro Safari, MK had the DL clones, and Epcot has SSE, Maelstrom, and Journey into Imagination. Basically each Florida park offered a little something different, but still Disney quality and something unique.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
One thing I was thinking of recently in regards to DCA- that Sky facade at the end of Hollywood blvd has to stay up as long as the Hyperion does. Any facade the size of the Hyperion would dwarf the surrounding buildings and mess up the scale. So I’m wondering if this could be factor in what imagineers decide to do with Hollywood Blvd? Then again “the sky” kind of goes with anything.

It’s interesting to think of what happens in the event the Hyperion is removed for Avatar or a AC expansion. Considering the layout of that section of the park I feel like removing it creates some challenges (or perhaps opportunities). It acts as a berm between the park and Harbor Blvd, weenie at the end of Hollywood Blvd. and is kind of the intersection of three lands. Not to say they couldn’t find another solution but I’m not sure it would be worth it financially. Seems like the fate of the Hyperion is to be repurposed as a show building and for the sky facade to stick around for the foreseeable future.
 
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DarkMetroid567

Well-Known Member
You said DCA could never be comparable, but based on what? You're saying that Disney isn't capable of creating attractions and lands better than they did in the 60's?

When we look at the Disneyland classic E's (POTC, HM, SM, Splash, BTMRR, Matterhorn) its not that difficult to do something similar in scale and majesty. Given how technology has progressed, it's even easier than when these attractions were built. And they can be based on newer interests and concepts rather than things that were popular 50 years ago. Plus a Darkride cluster based on new Disney/Pixar films.

Had DCA opened with a long indoor E-ticket omnimover or flume, a well themed coaster, and a collection of 3-4 charming smaller darkrides; it would have been a whole different story. Instead we got a lifeless GRR, a proof-of-concept-themed IMAX experience, and two well done theatre shows cloned from Florida. When Muppet Vision and Tough to be a Bug are your best experiences in the park by far, you don't offer a lot of variety.

While adding Radiator Springs has helped a ton, that is the only massive improvement that has really affected my part experience. Buena Vista street is lovely, but it doesn't offer anything other than generic shopping. Its like Main Street without the Firehouse, Movie Theatre, Opera House show, and Magic Shop. And, let's be honest, RS is a well executed looking land with only one good attraction. Had they built a cute dakride where Luigi's sits and/or a drive-in experience, it would be a land I spend time in rather than walking through to get to RSR.

The simple fact is that nothing was preventing DCA from overshadowing DL other than nostalgia. EPIC Universe is a brand-new park that will likely overshadow all of the WDW parks. And Disney chose to make DCA and DL comparable by pricing them the same and trying to sell the park as comparable to one another. They knew they had a stinker on their hand and instead of pricing it appropriately, they abused our goodwill.

As for the argument about Castle Parks being the known parks by the public, that's because they are the consistent park. They are the brand park, essentially. They all have castles, similar layouts and lands, similar attractions and experiences. No matter which part of the world you are in, your castle park is pretty similar overall to the others. But look at USO. The Studio park is a copy of the Hollywood park original, but IOA overshadows that tried-and-true branded park experience. Why? More interesting lands and attractions.

And as for the unvoiced argument that Disney's Florida project had multiple parks for years with the same pricing; I'd argue that most of the Florida parks have been half-day parks. They are all a little more lackluster, yet each park contained one or two Disney quality experiences to draw you in. MGM had a working studio, Star Tours, and TOT. AK had Dinosaur and Kilimanjaro Safari, MK had the DL clones, and Epcot has SSE, Maelstrom, and Journey into Imagination. Basically each Florida park offered a little something different, but still Disney quality and something unique.
I think on value proposition alone it’s hard to compare most parks in the world to Disneyland. You could put Islands or EPCOT next to Disneyland and it’d be really, really hard to escape DL’s shadow.

The UOR comparison doesn’t really work too well because Universal Studios Florida, frankly, is not a good park, and Islands has been in a relative stasis for 25 years with the exception of Wizarding World.
 

MistaDee

Well-Known Member
I was asking a specific question that most posters have avoided. I’ve answered all the questions posed to me, so no I haven’t been stuck on one thing. The thing is several posters are trying to do this comparison to DL, and as I said DCA never will be a comparable park so don’t know why posters are stuck on that in terms of price other than to say that don’t want to visit DCA for any price.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're just saying that once we have all the new attractions: the Infinity ride, Stark Flight lab, Coco D+ ticket and a whole new Avatar land then DCA will provide a lot more value than it does now (assuming the prices for the two parks stay equal to one another). Thus the "value gap" between DL and DCA will be relatively smaller, even if DL will still be the better value for your buck.

I think that's totally reasonable and I agree
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
If I'm reading you correctly, you're just saying that once we have all the new attractions: the Infinity ride, Stark Flight lab, Coco D+ ticket and a whole new Avatar land then DCA will provide a lot more value than it does now (assuming the prices for the two parks stay equal to one another). Thus the "value gap" between DL and DCA will be relatively smaller, even if DL will still be the better value for your buck.

I think that's totally reasonable and I agree
Yes, thank you, this is exactly what I’ve been trying to say.
 

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