Rantings about the target audience of WDW

[ChrisFL]

So as some of you know, I recently had a tour of parts of asia. I was able to see Hong Kong and Tokyo Disney resorts and was able to get a good sense of how different things are run at each of those places.

Having already a clear idea of my issues with the recent decisions by WDW, it was made even moreso when I visited those parks.

There is no way around this...its more and more clear WDW is being targeted at a very specific audience and not worrying about any other audience.

It is a trend thats been happening for a while, but IMO is picking up speed at a rapid pace. I've briefly discussed it before but I am starting to realize just how broadly this is becoming.

The point is....Disney has targeted kids...especially those under 15 or so much more specifically than IMO they ever have before. There has always been critics of the parks who said that "Disney is just for kids" even if it wasn't, and apparently the management of the WDW parks are now putting everything into making sure it stays that way.

When Walt was in charge, he made it clear that he wanted attractions that the parents could enjoy along with the kids, now it seems to me like they're making attractions mostly for the kids and their parents just go along with it.

We've seen the more obvious results of this, Pleasure Island is gone, Stitch and Monsters Inc are in tomorrowland, and even more stitch is to come. I don't consider their earlier inhabitants to be quite as kid-oriented, especially, of course Alien Encounter which was the complete opposite. The Timekeeper was also not meant for small children.

Of course, before that we saw the destruction of both 20,000 leagues under the sea, which was interesting, and Mr. Toad's Wild Ride which had some slightly un-PC themes give way to a huge area based on Winnie the Pooh, which is about as specifically for kids as you can get.

They've moved some great castle stores with artwork and crystal to add a boutique for little girls to be made up like princesses.

At Epcot, there's the Seas with Nemo told on a very kid level and the massive aquarium seems to be nearly ignored. Spaceship Earth has gone from a very dramatic and educational experience to one seemingly "taught" on a 5th grade level and and seeing the ending people like "because their kids were really laughing at it".

Innoventions has even become mostly a kids area, gone are the innovative new products that adults can experience (besides the Segway) and it's mostly kids products, video games, kids fire safety, velcro activities for kids, (and most are cutting edge as of 2004)

Mexico has gone to the 3 Caballeros, Norway has turned a beautiful and very good restaurant into a princess-only place. Now there's the Kim Possible experience which is apparently enjoyed by adults, but let's face it, is also designed for kids.

DHS doesn't seem to be quite as bad, American Idol is more for adults and Toy Story Mania IS something that is really more enjoyable by the whole family.

Animal Kingdom has a Nemo show and Dino-Rama which if you're a kid probably seems like a great addition Yes, Everest is also a big excpetion to this, but again it was probably only built because Beastly Kingdom hasn't been.

...what happened to having a Disney vacation suited to young couples or those who don't happen to have children? Tokyo has TONS of them and they spend TONS of money at the parks, because they're designed on a much more open level with attractions that are interesting to anyone, not just the young ones. Also, the quality that I saw of the merchandise in Tokyo blows away what we have here. I could have bought half of the pirates merchandise and been happy. It's not all low-quality plastic stuff.

But, if you're a kid, I'm sure that seeing the pirates, star wars, princess, hannah montana, jonas bros. stuff in every area would be just fine and you'll beg your parents at every corner to buy more stuff. Food quality is also suffering, but kids are easy, right?

The commercials are all about the kids and the families who have kids, no more talking about what a great resort destination it is for the other things that you can do at WDW, golf, parasailing, "cruising" around on boats, fine dining, etc. which could interest other types of people.

Of course we also see the other effects of this, like seeing massive amounts of strollers all over the place and stroller parking lots the likes of which I've never seen in the 26+ years I've been going to the parks. This is completely different than I saw in Tokyo or Hong Kong which were just as crowded (HK was on Chinese New Year, so it was quite busy).

I think this is going to hurt Disney if they continue to make this their only priority.

 

[WDW1974]

Great points, Chris.

And things I've been saying here and elsewhere for many years now.

It is a conscious effort by Disney to dumb down WDW to a product for 'families' ... and what they mean by that largely is mom, dad and 2-4 kids between the ages of a few months to 11-12 years of age ... maybe with some luck gammy and gampy can join on the fun for a magical gathering and maybe we can sell them all on DVC.

It is WalMarting ... it is LCD ... it is homogenized, bland, dumbed down Disney on a massive scale.

Recently been doing some spring cleaning/clutter removal and looking thru a few huge bins and filing cabinets packed with Disney items (my own archives) and it is amazing how different WDW used to be ... how much of a higher end product it offered across the board ... they were -- dare I say it -- sophisticated in the 70s and 80s ... now? Pin lanyards, McPooh playgrounds, shops shuttered, attractions falling apart, live entertainment largely reduced to foamheads, crappy merchandise that is the same whether you are on Main Street, Liberty Square, DAK, WoD, Coronado Springs or BW ... the whole product has been made so much less.

I imagine after being in Tokyo (where's the trip report?) and HK that WDW does seem very lacking ... I feel that way whenever I visit after being at DL, DLP or HKDL (finally hitting TDR late this year).

Of course, I could say it is part and parcel of a dumbing down of America as a nation (I just had a long dinner with friends visiting from out of town where that was a major discussion). And I think it's much easier to get away with a much lower quality product in 2009 than would have ever been acceptable in 1979 or 1989.

~The Disney Magic Still Exists ... you just need to leave Florida to find it!~

 

[SleepingMonk]

I agree.

Nemo doesn't belong in EPCOT.

Bring back Horizons, bring back the purpose and vision of the park.

 

[pj4life]

Bring back Horizons, bring back the purpose and vision of the park.

I loved Horizons as much as the next guy but I wish they would create something new and inspiring and not just rehash.

 

[Boray]

I couldn't agree more. My family has been visiting since 1997 when my husband and I went together for the first time (I had been there before, but he hadn't). We've made it a regular family trip since 2003. My kids talk about our trip the entire year until we go again. I fear the day when it no longer is magical for them, but too child-like. I hope Disney keeps up with the kids who grew up with Disney and continue to engage them as they age through middle and high school. I just don't want to see a day when they are no longer interested because they don't see it as a place for them.

I hope Disney considers this in their long-range plans.

 

[Philo]

The problem you've got here is that many, many people see DisneyWorld as their dream vacation with their kids. Sure, alot of people will love it and will go back many more times but they still need that first visit to get there.

Disney's dream was to create a park for the family and if this means marketing it at children (and of course their parents) then so be it.

I too question the way that Disney are moving in terms of their attractions but I think the core value of the park (i.e. having fun as a family) remains in place regardless of if your family contains children or not.

As long as the company remembers that we adults like rides too (building EE shows that they do know this), then I'll keep flying thousands of miles to visit.


If you want blatant marketing for kids, look at the last years worth of DLP advertising (and it's getting worse). "Kids play, stay and travel free". It's clear what market their going for but honestly, who can blame them?

 

[TheDisneyMagic]

If you want blatant marketing for kids, look at the last years worth of DLP advertising (and it's getting worse). "Kids play, stay and travel free". It's clear what market their going for but honestly, who can blame them?

This has worked for DLRP, look at their results since this type of promotion has been in place, getting better and better than ever before, but they are still appealing to the masses as well. Think Tower of Terror, the amout of protional work around Europe during the opening of that.

 

[WishingOnAStar]

Great points, Chris.

~The Disney Magic Still Exists ... you just need to leave Florida to find it!~

I hope more people follow your advice and stay away so that the parks will be more empty when I go!

I just spent last week with three college-age first timers and we found several things at each park that were age appropriate:
MK - Space, Splash, Big Thunder, HM, POTC
Epcot - TT, MS, WS
DHS - LMA, Indy Jones, ToT, RnR
AK - EE, KS

Of course there were several "kiddy" things we did as well, but we enjoyed them because part of going to WDW is feeling like a kid again!

 

[Mickey is King]

I agree... Let's see something ORIGINALand FRESH. I understand why they base many attractions on movie characters/movies, but some of the attractions in the parks are heavily bogged down with this type of origin.
Parents don't want to stand in line on vacation if there is little in it for them. There is a fair balance in the parks right now that works, but if they go to far in this direction you are right, it could be "just for the kids"

 

[epcotWSC]

I can see an argument for all sides.

Kid oriented? Of course, it's Disney. If you're not a kid at heart, you'll be miserable. Plus, if someone hasn't been to Disney before they were an adult, unless one of their friends drags them, you aren't going to find many adults wanting to go to Disney. The fact is, every kid dreams of going to Disney. The incentive is to make kids want to go and bother their parents and for their parents to be able to afford to take them. That's your core group of tourists and profit. That's who you advertise to most. To people like us, we know about Disney, we love it. We don't need to go with children to want to go, we just love going. They're not going to advertise toward us. For others like teenagers and young adults who don't know Disney, it's much harder. It's much tougher to sell the idea of going to Disney to a family with teenagers (who don't have the disposable income to go on their own) than a family with kids. Teens who aren't Disney fans don't think to go to Disney and seeing a WDW commercial isn't going to sway them. They'd rather go to one of the thousands of other places in the world.

That said, sure they are shoving characters and such down our throats, but it's what sells. I would like to see more originality. Heck, take PoTC. Ride -> Movie. Today we would never see that because today people don't seem to be creative. Today it's always Movie -> Ride because a ride is always easier to sell if it's based on a successful movie.

However, as of now there is plenty for everyone. You can incorporate movies (like Toy Story & Monsters Inc for example) and make a thrill ride out of it. I frankly don't care all that much if most rides Disneyfied as long as they are themed well and exciting.

I still would, however, like more fresh ideas that aren't based on a movie or a TV show. That seems to be all that we're getting these days. Need more stuff like Soarin, EE, and all that.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

The problem you've got here is that many, many people see DisneyWorld as their dream vacation with their kids. Sure, alot of people will love it and will go back many more times but they still need that first visit to get there.

Disney's dream was to create a park for the family and if this means marketing it at children (and of course their parents) then so be it.

I too question the way that Disney are moving in terms of their attractions but I think the core value of the park (i.e. having fun as a family) remains in place regardless of if your family contains children or not.

As long as the company remembers that we adults like rides too (building EE shows that they do know this), then I'll keep flying thousands of miles to visit.


If you want blatant marketing for kids, look at the last years worth of DLP advertising (and it's getting worse). "Kids play, stay and travel free". It's clear what market their going for but honestly, who can blame them?

I think part of the issue was well put by Philo. From the beginning, the Epcot many of us love was considered "boring" by kids, hence attendance wasn't great until they started adding some "real rides"

But I do think there has been some attention paid to adults. Everest was mentioned, there is also Soarin' and Mission Space in Epcot. How many people have argued just the opposite about MS....that it was against Walt's approach as it "forced" separation of the family.

There are very few rides like Soarin' that are truly entertaining for almost all. I do hope that Disney does keep a balance moving forward. I don't begrudge Blues Clues and JoJo and High School Musical...but hope there will be more challenging attractions as well.

 

[ChrisFL]

I imagine after being in Tokyo (where's the trip report?) and HK that WDW does seem very lacking ... I feel that way whenever I visit after being at DL, DLP or HKDL (finally hitting TDR late this year).

I posted the trip report on another message board since there really isn't anybody that looks at the Tokyo/HK forum here. It's on micechat.

 

[jakeman]

While the argument is valid, you can't just dismiss the attractions that appeal to adults that have been added over the same timeframe. Laundry listing all that appeals to kids and then simpling saying that the more adult attractions don't count for various reasons is ignoring the other side of the issue. The dig at Kim Possible was a perfect example of this. It appeals to both kids and adults, but you dismiss it as a fluke, because it negates your argument.

Walt also said that the idea for a theme park came from wanting a place to spend the day with his girl. That would imply that families are the primary target audience of Disney.

To be honest, the youngest child in a family is the limiting reagent on what can be accomplished at WDW. So yeah, the curve is going to be tilted in that direction some.

Is that right? I don't know. That's a matter of personal opinion.

 

[Since1976]

I would venture that adults going to Disney for the first time only fall into three categories:

1. The "deprived" - People who wanted to go as kids, but their parents either couldn't or wouldn't take them.

2. The "tag-alongs" - People who had never had a pressing desire to go, but someone else they know -- a significant other or close friend -- dragged them along.

3. The "What's-this-Disney-place-you-speak-of?" people - Really, do these people even exist?

The first group are much more likely to appreciate the kid-friendly elements of the parks since that's what they dreamed of seeing when they were younger. I think this is the larger of the two groups. (Compare this to other vacation destinations. How many kids dream of going to Tahiti or Vail, Colorado?)

The second group? Well, they have little vested interest to go to begin with, and are probably not even expecting much, so even the most minimal adult-friendly fare would probably be enough to satisfy their vacation needs.

The third group? Well, if they've never heard of WDW before, and go there expecting to be able to do non-kid-themed things -- well, guess what? There *is* stuff like that for them to do! You just have to sit through a lot of kiddie fare (which is *not* a bad word, in WDW terms) to find the gems.

 

[jonnyc]

At the end of the day it is a buisness, us hardcore Disney fans don't make up the bulk of their custom. Are we going to stop going to the parks if this trend continues? I know that I won't (unless it becomes Walt Stitch World).

However, as a hardcore Disney fan, i will contradict myself and agree with your points. Some more adult orientated attractions wouldn't go a miss, but i can't see the situation changing.

 

[ChrisFL]

While the argument is valid, you can't just dismiss the attractions that appeal to adults that have been added over the same timeframe. Laundry listing all that appeals to kids and then simpling saying that the more adult attractions don't count for various reasons is ignoring the other side of the issue. The dig at Kim Possible was a perfect example of this. It appeals to both kids and adults, but you dismiss it as a fluke, because it negates your argument.

Walt also said that the idea for a theme park came from wanting a place to spend the day with his girl. That would imply that families are the primary target audience of Disney.

To be honest, the youngest child in a family is the limiting reagent on what can be accomplished at WDW. So yeah, the curve is going to be tilted in that direction some.

Is that right? I don't know. That's a matter of personal opinion.

Oddly it feels like I've already covered most of these points in my first post.

I think regarding the "discounting" of some of the attractions as a fluke misses a larger point. Ok, we can say that Mission:Space and Everest were designed more for adults, obviously, but there seems to be a difference in the entire resort toward kid stuff and a couple of thrill rides don't make up for this, especially when there's Universal down the road catering much better to the 15+ crowd.

As I said before, Walt wanted a place where he could enjoy attractions as much as his girls did, and that they could ride together. That doesn't mean designing a ride just for kids to enjoy and their parents to watch their kids enjoy them. If it was, we'd never have seen Walt make plans for POTC or Haunted Mansion, Mr. Toad's wild ride or Space Mountain. The edginess of the family attractions like those seems to be making way for the latest super cute pixar attraction. I don't see the same kinds of interesting appeal for all ages that I found when I visited DisneySea.

It might lead me to another, more philosophical point about kids vs. adults...just because something may not be fully understood by kids doesn't mean they won't enjoy it. Kids want to be and feel more grown up, so dumbing down attractions IMO doesn't make sense.

IIRC it was Walt himself that said that people shouldn't be talked down to.

 

[DisneyPrincess5]

At the end of the day it is a buisness, us hardcore Disney fans don't make up the bulk of their custom. Are we going to stop going to the parks if this trend continues? I know that I won't (unless it becomes Walt Stitch World).

However, as a hardcore Disney fan, i will contradict myself and agree with your points. Some more adult orientated attractions wouldn't go a miss, but i can't see the situation changing.

Well said and I agree.

This is why I'm against integrating a slew of characters into Epcot. I like it to be Disney without Stitch and Snow White prancing around, popping up on rides. Nemo is tolerable, but that's plenty.
Trust me, I love the characters as much as the next guy, but there is a place and time for that...not Epcot.

 

[CaptainMichael]

Magic Kingdom (Fantasyland specifically) makes me never want to have children. WDW "management" has completely ruined that park.

My family no longer fits WDW's new target audience which saddens me. Thank God for EPCOT. Oh how I miss Pleasure Island!

 

[maggiegrace1]

Magic Kingdom (Fantasyland specifically) makes me never want to have children. WDW "management" has completely ruined that park.

My family no longer fits WDW's new target audience which saddens me. Thank God for EPCOT. Oh how I miss Pleasure Island!

I do not think Magic Kingdom is just for children at all...it may be the target audience for it but there are adults who do love Magic Kingdom and do not have kids.

I especially love Fantasyland and have always loved it and made it my first stop even before I had Maggie...it is a must do for me with her or without her.:shrug:

Also, while you say it makes you want to never have children..wait until you do and you bring your little girl or boy there and watch their expression when they first see Mickey Mouse or ride Dumbo and make you go on Peter Pan over and over again..you will feel differently then.

 

[CaptainMichael]

Also, while you say it makes you want to never have children..wait until you do and you bring your little girl or boy there and watch their expression when they first see Mickey Mouse or ride Dumbo and make you go on Peter Pan over and over again..you will feel differently then.

We won't be going to WDW until they're at least 10.