Proof of Vaccination or Negative COVID Test required for theme parks soon?

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Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
Ageism and sexism aside, if it's too much of a big deal or a hassle,... stay home? (I don't go out to bars or restaurants-- that's just not my thing, so I know I don't get it, but it just doesn't seem that annoying.) I honestly don't forsee Disneyland actually implementing a requirement like that, unless the State mandates it. The way D'Amaro handled the situation with AEA (read: very badly) is a good indication. To be honest, I don't even know if these parks should be open (even if I just went to them anyway, hahaha).
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
Also, WHELP, comin' to a City/ State/ County near you: https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/...StEQCHWTxzkhybNmqe_gBZqzjQdDaGa-LfQgR_LIygGWw

*Orwellian jokes dot gif

Again, this just feels like so much effort--the effort to complain about getting vaccinated, the effort to lie about it, and maintain that lie, to set up anon place to peach on someone online for lying, etc. The only thing I can think of for both NYC (and LA) is that they were both hit so brutally by Covid that they can't take any chances. I just feel bad about the people who can't get any of the US shots because of immunity/auto-immune issues or they are legitimately allergic being at the mercy of people who would go to a George Glass level lie than just be a decent human.
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
To be honest, I don't even know if these parks should be open (even if I just went to them anyway, hahaha).

I am genuinely curious. Is there any evidence that Disneyland being open has directly caused an increase in hospitalizations or deaths due to covid?

And if so, does that mean their health and safety measures (like masks) are not effective?
 

MoonRakerSCM

Well-Known Member
I am genuinely curious. Is there any evidence that Disneyland being open has directly caused an increase in hospitalizations or deaths due to covid?

And if so, does that mean their health and safety measures (like masks) are not effective?

Those in control let alone any of their followers are WELL beyond that point of common sense. We left it a long time ago.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
An act that could get you a $5000 fine and up to 5 years in jail. Why don't you just print some money while your at it?

I've been fully vaccinated for many months, as is every single person I know socially and within my family, so I won't be printing anything out. And last month I walked into a CVS and got a free booster shot, no questions asked (and here's your coupon for $5 off Crest Whitening Strips!).

But it's hilarious to pretend that 20somethings going out for drunken bar crawls in West LA, or 30something foodies going to hotspots in Pasadena or Redondo, aren't capable of printing out a paper card to get in to where the action is.

American youths have been faking ID cards to ensure a fun weekend since the repeal of the 18th amendment in 1933.

And who exactly enforces the $5000 fine and calls the cops on customers if they think the random paper card is fake for some reason? The 20 year old hostess tapping at her glowing screen? The 23 year old bouncer at the door working for pizza and steroid money? The "manager" in the fancy suit trying to keep his tables turning and his kitchen running after a disastrous 18 months?

It's a paper card. With ballpoint scribbles on it. It's practically meaningless.
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
I am genuinely curious. Is there any evidence that Disneyland being open has directly caused an increase in hospitalizations or deaths due to covid?

And if so, does that mean their health and safety measures (like masks) are not effective?

I don't think you can find any evidence that Disneyland being open, or closed, has any real impact on Covid cases in SoCal or Orange County. The impact on the country at large would be even harder to pinpoint.

DLCases.png

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My hunch is that this is like all other alleged "superspreader events!" that do not have a guest list of "sophisticated, vaccinated people" like a Presidential birthday party or The Emmy's or The Met Gala. Disneyland is likely lumped into all other "unsophisticated" events attended by pulpy middle class Americans who think going to a theme park is a good time; stuff like Big Ten college football games, motorcycle rallies in South Dakota, attending a church service, having Christmas or Thanksgiving dinner in a private home, etc.

Disneyland likely has no ability to prove that being open or closed did anything, and instead just gets lumped into all those other unfashionable activities attended by hopelessly unsophisticated people who didn't get an invite to Martha's Vineyard or the Met Gala.

 
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Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
I am genuinely curious. Is there any evidence that Disneyland being open has directly caused an increase in hospitalizations or deaths due to covid?

And if so, does that mean their health and safety measures (like masks) are not effective?
I have interacted with you for all of 10 minutes online, and I don't understand why you keep demanding homework from me, I've enjoyed none of those 10 minutes.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
I can't quote comment, because I qm using my phone, but to add to a point above, I think there has been so much vindicated, validated reasons to distrust others we've seen highlighted this entire ordeal. I'm a Frontline worker. I've been pushed to my absolute mental, emotional, and physical limits while there are people still crying about being on Zoom all day. People crying about wearing masks to the grocery store when everyone YOU see are wearing theirs (multiple) for 9-12 hours a day. People refusing to wear masks, People who did whatever they wanted and were going on all the vacations they wanted while you were out there risking your life every day. Then it was the yuppies who bragged about lying to jump the vaccine lines, so Frontline and the elderly were delayed getting theirs. Now it's the People who refuse to get vaccinated because of their own sheer narcissistic nonsense and would rather get a fake vaccine card. "Boo hoo, DON'T LIVE IN FEEAARRR" says People who couldn't be bothered to follow directions for 5 minutes. I trust neither my fellow man, nor some of the people in charge, if that's alright. I've spent almost 2 years seeing some of the worst of what humanity has to offer, please forgive my skepticism.

(Also, I don't know why my phone capitalizes People, but anyway.)
 

denyuntilcaught

Well-Known Member
And who exactly enforces the $5000 fine and calls the cops on customers if they think the random paper card is fake for some reason? The 20 year old hostess tapping at her glowing screen? The 23 year old bouncer at the door working for pizza and steroid money? The "manager" in the fancy suit trying to keep his tables turning and his kitchen running after a disastrous 18 months?

It's a paper card. With ballpoint scribbles on it. It's practically meaningless.

So, I dare argue that this isn't designed to be actually enforced (outside of venues, as you mentioned, that have the resources to do so), but it's certainly designed to be coercive. Kind of like the stay at home orders from last year in LA, where the order said that anyone out after 10pm could be cited. Though the Sheriff straight up came out and said that LAPD didn't have the resources to enforce the order, that he encouraged people to do the right thing. And for the most part, they did. Those freeways were EMPTY. I remember going 80 on the 405 at 5pm on a Friday.

I'm thinking it's the same approach here. Making something mandatory isn't always about enforcement, but coercion.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
AKA 2 years of nonstop 24/7 social media and news fear mongering/division for profit.
I don't think people were scared enough. I don't think people saw the effects Covid really had, had to deal with death during Covid in any real way (least of all at the scale at which health care workers were seeing it). People also weren't out there going to work every day to see how bad and scary and dangerous and sad the cities were (least of all on public transit). They were completely disconnected from the people who were dying. The sheer levels of narcissism I witnessed over the course of these almost-2 years had no political preference. It was pretty uniformly disgusting across the board.
 

Nirya

Well-Known Member
I think the shorter answer to my question is "No, there isn't any evidence."

That's not necessarily true. We have had large-scale public events where we have traced cases back to - for example, Lollapalooza was able to trace 203 cases back to the event, which required proof of vaccination to attend, and the Sturgis motorcycle rally this past year had enough cases to qualify as a superspreader event. On top of that, there has been some studies (for example, this one of German soccer) that showed a noticeable increase in COVID cases in the 14 days following a game.

The problem we have, especially when figuring things out in the United States, is that contact tracing has never gotten to the point where we can have good data on these things. It means our data with American events is missing a ton of data in general.

What I think we can put together is the following ideas:

- Large scale, single event gatherings (i.e. major sporting events or music festivals) are a bigger vector for infection and transmission than continuous-operation services, likely because COVID protections are taken more seriously at the continuous-operation places.
- Outdoor transmission is much lower than initially believed, but it is not 0. The reason the single events are having more cases than something like Disneyland is that people are packed into the location, are fairly close, and usually are doing some sort of screaming and singing.
- Masks work, but on top of that even putting basic effort towards COVID safety is proving effective, not just in limiting transmission but I would guess it is scaring away people who are higher-risk, either due to preexisting conditions or because they are anti-mask/vax and don't want to deal with restrictions.

These are some basic thoughts, but hopefully it provides some context.
 

denyuntilcaught

Well-Known Member
The problem we have, especially when figuring things out in the United States, is that contact tracing has never gotten to the point where we can have good data on these things. It means our data with American events is missing a ton of data in general.

Spot on. Lack of cases tied back to X event doesn't necessarily imply that there aren't any, rather it's that we don't have the means to determine something of that scale or magnitude.

And masks and social distancing work. Not sure why that's still a point two years in.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
It's time for the Friday Data Dump of misinformation official data and hard facts from the California Department of Public Health and county authorities...

Orange County continues to have no mask mandate in place, and there certainly is no vaccine mandate in place in Orange County. Testing remains very high, cases continue to decline, and Hospitalizations in particular continue with sharp declines of over 20% per week in hospitalized patients.

OC cases (14).png

OC hospitalizations (15).png


 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
As far as vaccinations go in SoCal, it's a slow but steady trend upward. The various counties continue in their various rankings, with sunny San Diego County leading the way, followed by Orange County, with the Inland Empire in distant fourth and fifth place.

Full Vaccinations as of October 7th, 2021

California Statewide = 59.2% Fully Vaccinated

San Diego County = 64.5% Fully Vaccinated
Orange County = 62.1% Fully Vaccinated
Lxs Angxlxs County = 60.5% Fully Vaccinated
Riverside County = 50.2% Fully Vaccinated
San Bernardino County = 46.9% Fully Vaccinated


Mammoth Lxs Angxlxs County with over 10 Million residents (bigger than many states and some European countries), continues to put its demographic info front and center on its Covid dashboard. With 10 million people and a very well funded government bureacracy to track all of them, it remains a good status check for the rest of SoCal (if not the entire country)...

Racial Demographics as of October 3rd, 2021 in LA County

Asians = 81.5% At Least One Dose (1,047,404 Residents)
American Indians = 75.8% At Least One Dose (16,094 Residents)
Whites = 72.2% At Least One Dose (1,768,713 Residents)
Latinos = 62.6% At Least One Dose (2,584,635 Residents)
Blacks = 54.3% At Least One Dose (393,569 Residents)

Age 18-29 = 69.6% At Least One Dose
(30.4% will need a fake CDC card to get into The Regal Beagle)
Age 65-79 = 96.6% At Least One Dose (3.4% will need a fake CDC card to get into Bingo)

And as per usual, as of early October it's the affluent areas along the beaches and in the western hills that are the most vaccinated. The middle class suburbs in the eastern valleys are also very well vaccinated. The inland working class or working poor zip codes of central and south LA County are the least vaccinated.

LAC_vaccine_map (9).png


 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
I think the shorter answer to my question is "No, there isn't any evidence."

There was absolutely no evidence that showed outdoor dining spread Covid either, but that didn't matter. Outdoor dining in social distanced and constantly sterilized patios was forbidden in California for many months. Because... well, just because!

Downtown Disney - Socially Distanced Outdoor Dining
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There was data that showed the primary transmission of Covid in the restaurant industry was among the employees working back in the crowded and cramped kitchens, but that didn't matter either.

And Official Good People were still able to openly and proudly order their food via DoorDash and Uber Eats without any guilt or shame throughout all of 2020, despite what the evidence (and basic common sense) showed about Covid transmission among employees working in cramped quarters shoulder-to-shoulder for long stretches of time. We need to Instagram our Poke Bowls and we need to TikTok our Street Tacos! We've been sipping Merlot out of a coffee mug on Zoom all day and we need a mental health break and chicken spring roll appetizers! Keep working back there, or we'll Yelp the crap out of you!

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Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
I live in one of the highest vaccinated counties in California, and the only reason Marin and SF are beating us is that there are more cows in Marin than people (prefer them over the people) and SF is a postage stamp.
 
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