Potential land for future Magic Kingdom expansions

[MerlinTheGoat]

Since this discussion has been clogging up the Frozen construction thread in the news and rumors section, i'm going to create a new thread here. Martin thought it was a good idea to keep this out of that topic and maybe Steve can move some of those posts over here instead.

Basically what I want to determine is which pieces of undeveloped land in and around Magic Kingdom are possible to use for expansion purposes. Discussions have occurred regarding just how much land MK actually has beyond what has already been used, the discussion arose regarding whether a Frozen miniland could fit in Fantasyland somewhere. It would be difficult to do so within the current developed land without removing something. So the question is whether land outside of the current Fantasyland footprint could be expanded on. I'll also open this to include the rest of Magic Kingdom as well.

I am aware that some pieces of land are or have been officially designated expansion plots, such as the land directly below Space Mountain (mentioned by Martin). And even the Tomorrowland cast parking area has been discussed in the past. But i'm also curious about other pieces of land, particularly beyond the train track berm that could hold some potential. I made a map overlay marking potential areas of interest in red a while back that shows some of the land i'm interesting in knowing about-

I know these plots may not have been actually discussed or officially designated by the company, but I just want to determine what is possible or impossible. Granted these areas would present challenges that I can see even from above. Waterways that need diverting, land in close proximity to fireworks launch and service roads and other things. Many of these areas are commonly occupied in fan-generated content such as @RandySavage ideal buildout plans, though it would be interesting to know how actually possible using the land would be in the real world (beyond armchair imagineering and wishful thinking). Overall, if enough money and effort were to be thrown into these areas, could these plots of land possibly be used for future expansion?

Feel free to chime in anyone.

 

[Cesar R M]

dont mind me, just passing by.

 

[copcarguyp71]

My own (and very unpopular) thought is that ROA can go bye bye and develop that land as a Frontierland expansion. That way the actual footprint of the park would not need to change. What would be REALLY awe inspiring is if they made one level at the same height as the existing area but then made that an "indoor" amusement area of sorts and then landscaped over top of that with rides or a renewed TSI on top or a mixture of the two. Would also be useful when weather turns sour.

 

[marni1971]

Hello again!

Let's start at the south west, bottom left. This is an area that was looked at for Fire Mountain. It's a proposed pad, but is constrained by a sinkhole immediately south of the PotC queue building. Not impossible but it would have to be taken into consideration.

Before we leave don't forget the small pad immediately west of Crystal Palace. This was for a planned second restaurant with an Adventureland theme but sharing the Palaces kitchens. Circa 1971-2. Obviously never happened.

North west, a long term area for expansion. Possibly a last resort area given the canal and its associated wet dock and double lock gates would need crossing. Possibly harder to get to as well given Splash and BTM, although the area around the BTM garage (directly north of Splash) has been looked at recently for possible Frontierland expansion. This would obviously help in pushing onstage closer to the plot.

The two plots north of Fantasyland, so far as I'm aware (doesn't mean it's definite) are not expansion areas. Magic Kingdom Drive would need crossing but kept operational. Major engineering would be needed for building on the swampland, not least since this part of the existing park is fully supported by Ulilidors and so is a lot higher than the unused land.

North east is a designated area, across from the Circus. Again work would be needed to make it suitable but that's not impossible and would be less work than going north of Small World and NFL. The retention pond was part of NFL so could be moved, as we will see not for the first time.

South east outside of the berm is designated, and was proposed on the 1980 map I posted. Work would be needed, the pond and canal would need moving, but the pond was already moved in 1972-3 in preparation for Space Mountain (that show building stands where the once larger pond used to be)

Finally the Tland backstage area was proposed to be used for the TRONCoaster. It used to have the Tomorrowland / Galaxy Palace Theatre in it, and the Walt Disney Theatre (and more recently the MSUSA bypass) have been extended into it so much to managers annoyance it isn't sacrosanct.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Thanks Martin, I really appreciate your hard work with setting the record straight regarding what land Magic Kingdom has available. I know that some of this comes with challenges and expenses, but it sounds like there's a lot more potential space than many people want to admit. It looks like claims of MK having no extra space are false.

As discussed in the Frozen thread, Magic Kingdom still has serious capacity issues. While I don't disagree about the other parks needing help, more evenly distributing crowds across property is very important, MK still needs a LOT more work ASAP as well. I consider it very neglectful that it has been over 23 years now since the last true major *addition* to the ride roster (excepting the Aladdin spinner). We've had closures and replacements, but it has been that long since the ride count meaningfully increased over what it was prior.

It's my personal view that every land at Magic Kingdom could use another ride (perhaps multiple rides depending on the land), but Fantasyland actually needs several. Not including spinners and other minor rides, Disneyland's Fantasyland has 9 rides. Magic Kingdom's Fantasyland has 5. If you include both Toontown and Storybook Circus into this comparison, Disneyland has an additional 10th ride. There is clearly a serious problem. And it sounds like it has the land to handle more. If properly expanded (and I mean properly), it would help things a lot. Looks like that land to the east of the Circus area is a good place to start, it's actually a bit bigger than New Fantasyland. MK's Fantasyland could definitely use at least as many rides as Disneyland's Fantasyland (especially given the much greater attendance levels).

 

[ford91exploder]

Another alternative would be to move the TL speedway outside the Berm near SM that would free up a lot of space and allow a redesign of the Speedway to use electric vehicles, Let's face it NO ONE will miss the eye stinging fumes from poorly tuned small gas engines

 

[marni1971]

Anyway... just thinking about the walk.

Another 100 Yards or so shouldn't be a problem. Especially in the greater scheme of a full day.

Try crossing Disneyland Parc in Paris. Makes the MK seem like a toy. And in DLP it still works.

 

[marni1971]

Another alternative would be to move the TL speedway outside the Berm near SM that would free up a lot of space

Now that's an idea. Especially since Hong Kong is now electric and DLP are going hybrid electric with computerised governing. They haven't given up on the ride concept. WDWs version is looking old hat.

 

[ford91exploder]

Now that's an idea. Especially since Hong Kong is now electric and DLP are going hybrid electric with computerised governing. They haven't given up on the ride concept. WDWs version is looking old hat.

And let's face it the Speedway is a lot of kids first chance to 'drive' a car I think it's one of the key attractions of the MK but NO ONE will miss the fumes from the engines!, I think the reason so many hate it is because of the fumes not the ride itself.

 

[marni1971]

And let's face it the Speedway is a lot of kids first chance to 'drive' a car I think it's one of the key attractions of the MK but NO ONE will miss the fumes from the engines!, I think the reason so many hate it is because of the fumes not the ride itself.

Indeed. The concept is great, but the gas driven cars on a 70s Grand Prix styled track don't say future anymore. Hardly even says present.

 

[ford91exploder]

Indeed. The concept is great, but the gas driven cars on a 70s Grand Prix styled track don't say future anymore. Hardly even says present.

No they don't - the ride is in dire need of updating with a modern theme, Heck I'd take a steampunk theme as I think that would be more timeless and I hate to say it you could merge in some IP from Studio Ghibli say style cues from 'Howl's Moving Castle'.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Sounds like several of those plots were designated for expansion in the 70's and 80's, so even the original designers of the park intended to expand the space much farther out from the Main Street hub. And as Martin mentioned, Disneyland Paris is actually larger than MK (and it's a wonderful castle park). The train also acts as a convenient way to get to distant lands relatively quickly without as much of a walk. There are existing stations in fairly close proximity to both of the distant plots in Fantasyland and Frontierland.

Magic Kingdom needs more capacity and rides. Expanding the park legitimately in a big way is going to HAVE to occur eventually (and much sooner than the executives want to admit, it's long overdue). Working more efficiently with existing space as well will also be required. Repurposing ride space for unnecessary and overly large meet and greets for example is incredibly asinine and wasteful. And Disneyland was very efficient with its space by building two dark rides on the same space (Mr Toad and Alice are a single multi-storey building) But MK is going to have to expand on fresh space as well.

I don't really like or hate the Speedway as a concept, but it definitely doesn't work in its current form. Both because of the fumes as well as the layout and scenery compared to the other versions. Though at the immediate time, I say expand outward in the other lands on unused plots before bringing down the Speedway for a substantial time period. MK needs extra rides and more capacity at the moment.

In the proper hands i'd actually be interested in a Steampunk take on Tomorrowland as a whole. Or at least a part of it. Tomorrowland is kind of a mess in its current form and EPCOT serves (or rather served) as a futuristic experience. But this is getting into armchair imagineering at the moment (kind of hard not to though when discussing expansion plots).

 

[RadiatorSpringsRacer]

And let's face it the Speedway is a lot of kids first chance to 'drive' a car I think it's one of the key attractions of the MK but NO ONE will miss the fumes from the engines!, I think the reason so many hate it is because of the fumes not the ride itself.

It's also not as scenic as, say, Anaheim's Autopia. Nothing to see as you drive along but flat asphalt.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Would it be a serious problem to build some sort of bridge across Rivers of America to the northwestern plot? The train track already crosses it at one point. I could see Big Thunder being an obstruction that might present a challenge in getting to the area. I couldn't figure how to deal with that besides making a route through the proposed expansion space. Unless they can build some sort of tunnel through the inside of Big Thunder LOL (which one of Randy Savage's layouts seemed to do, though I doubt he based it off of blueprints or whatever)! I also wonder if one could build a walkway on the other side of the Rivers of America, alongside the Haunted Mansion queue. It's only tight in a tiny area around there, then there's plenty of space.

Looking at the area considered for the Frontierland expansion, it doesn't actually look very large. Though perhaps they could fit a show building around the size of Little Mermaid or Haunted Mansion. Looks like the BTM train depot could get in the way of anything bigger. Along with whatever service roads might be required for the area.

 

[dizda]

I have heard fans talk of using the space between Crystal Palace and Jungle Cruise as an entrance area to a new attraction, but what would that be and where would the actual attraction go? There does not seem to be all that much room without changes to Jungle Cruise.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I have heard fans talk of using the space between Crystal Palace and Jungle Cruise as an entrance area to a new attraction, but what would that be and where would the actual attraction go? There does not seem to be all that much room without changes to Jungle Cruise.

It could be further away from the main walkways accessed via a long queue a la the Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland.

 

[marni1971]

I have heard fans talk of using the space between Crystal Palace and Jungle Cruise as an entrance area to a new attraction.

That wouldn't really work due to the Jungle Cruise wet and dry docks. They'd get in the way.

 

[marni1971]

Would it be a serious problem to build some sort of bridge across Rivers of America to the northwestern plot? The train track already crosses it at one point.

Not impossible but it would have to hide backstage areas and avoid the wet dock / lock system back there that's used to isolate the Rivers.

To complicate things - assuming the Riverboat continues to run - any bridge would have to be movable to allow the Belle to transfer. Which would mean no attraction queues straddling the water.

 

[Cesar R M]

Not impossible but it would have to hide backstage areas and avoid the wet dock / lock system back there that's used to isolate the Rivers.

To complicate things - assuming the Riverboat continues to run - any bridge would have to be movable to allow the Belle to transfer. Which would mean no attraction queues straddling the water.

how about a floating retractable bridge?

 

[marni1971]

how about a floating retractable bridge?

Not suitable really for substantial traffic. Plus the distance is easily bridgable by existing means.