Post-1984 Magic Kingdom Attraction Quality

[geekza]

And the whole of DHS!

DHS until recently has been better than DAK is even now. The gate didn't close in 1984. For me, DHS rivaled EPCOT and the MK.

I...I... I'm not quite sure how to process this.

J/K To each their own. I think every person is attracted to different parks. What Disney has been able to successfully do all over the world with their parks is tailor the experience to the culture of the area in which they are built. I've never had the emotional connection to the Studios that others have, but I do feel it was a much better park when it was an actual working studio and had a central theme. The problem with the park is that it was built quickly to compete with Universal and to take advantage of tax breaks for film and TV production that were available in Florida at the time. Universal had Nick Studios there for the same reason. Those tax breaks ended up going away, removing any incentive to film in Florida over other locations. When that happened, production at both Disney/MGM and Universal shut down, in both cases leaving large numbers of production shops and soundstages empty. It didn't hurt Universal as much because quite a bit of their park had other attractions. Disney/MGM was in trouble, though. Although it was a beautifully-designed park, it really was put together rather quickly and the focus was not really on rides as much as it was, "Hey! Come see how film, TV, and animation is done!" It has been left to crumble for many years and is just now getting the attention and resources to bring some life back into it. Sadly, that means that its original feel and theme are totally gone.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

You rang?

When I saw this as a kid, I used to be so afraid of getting "picked" and sent somewhere in time with 9 eye.

 

[geekza]

Enchanted Tales with Belle
Embarrassing kiddie theater. Should've been left in the hotel daycare center.

As someone who did Children's Theatre for a living for a few years, I think it's pretty spectacular. Young kids, for whom the show is intended, will have their minds blown by it.

Buzz Lightyear - It was a game-changer, and I don't care how much more advanced MiB was and the other versions of Buzz that followed around the world, Buzz was the Toy Story Mania of its day. My family still loves riding it and it is pure Disney innovation. And really sticky - can they clean the damn thing?

I agree that it was really pretty nifty when it was built and definitely influenced other parks' attractions. I just don't know that, in light of improvements on the basic ride structure in other parks, it holds up in its current state. I'm not saying get rid of it, but it's in pretty rough shape and really needs a rehab. Updating some of the effects could really give it new life.

Going off-topic myself, I feel like Soarin' is just okay. I haven't seen the current version, but I rode the original and, though I liked it, the experience was a bit underwhelming. Only the ride system was innovative. Other than that, it's basically Back to the Future: The Ride without as much action. It would probably rate higher for me except that my experience was completely ruined by idiots taking photos with a flash. Nothing makes me want to throat punch someone more than when they destroy immersion by taking flash photos. I felt like screaming, "You're using a flash to try and take a picture of a screen that has as it's only function the ability to reflect light! You're ruining the ride for pictures that won't even show the image you're trying to capture!" It's probably best that I'm not a Cast Member, as I'd likely get fired the first day.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Besides FOP, Iger has not produced a game changing attraction in his entire tenure as CEO.

No, he has done nothing important other then securing one or two of the biggest entertainment venues ever. Small things like Lucas, Pixar and Marvel. But, sure he hasn't done much for theme parks lately. Oh wait, didn't I read someplace about billions and billions of dollars being spent in domestic parks just recently?

 

[marni1971]

No, he has done nothing important other then securing one or two of the biggest entertainment venues ever. Small things like Lucas, Pixar and Marvel. But, sure he hasn't done much for theme parks lately. Oh wait, didn't I read someplace about billions and billions of dollars being spent in domestic parks just recently?

Yes you probably did.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

You're missing Pandora, which is incredible (if limited, with "1.5 rides"). That's to say nothing of the coming Toy Story and Star Wars lands.

NFL really just has 7DMT as the main attraction, but like Pandora it's done very well.

The rest, sure... A bit less than exciting. But anything new absorbs people, and that's not a bad thing.

 

[danyoung56]

They are both 3D flying simulators. Only FOP is much more advanced.

I think there are similarities between the two, as they both use a large format screen. But the ride systems are totally different.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

I consider myself well-versed in Disney acronyms but NFL threw me for an incomplete forward pass.

Also, Pandora is my favorite land in a U.S. park.

New FantasyLand...

 

[Chef Mickey]

No, he has done nothing important other then securing one or two of the biggest entertainment venues ever. Small things like Lucas, Pixar and Marvel. But, sure he hasn't done much for theme parks lately. Oh wait, didn't I read someplace about billions and billions of dollars being spent in domestic parks just recently?

And we will evaluate those when they are a reality. Until then, I stand by my assessment that he hasn’t done much of anything for WDW but milk since he took over as CEO.

I didn’t say he hasn’t made great acquisitions or even say that he’s been a poor CEO. I consistently have said Iger has been fantastic in some areas, but he’s really been poor from an attractions perspective at WDW.

 

[Goofyernmost]

And we will evaluate those when they are a reality. Until then, I stand by my assessment that he hasn’t done much of anything for WDW but milk since he took over as CEO.

I didn’t say he hasn’t made great acquisitions or even say that he’s been a poor CEO. I consistently have said Iger has been fantastic in some areas, but he’s really been poor from an attractions perspective at WDW.

Until now, I agree, but, we really have to include now and not just yesterday. Besides, overall, his acquisitions may indeed be the turning point for the parks. Before one can get to a destination the road must be traveled. I'm not saying that what he has done isn't just a happy coincidence, but, it still may have huge positive affects on theme parks, especially Disney Theme Parks. It just didn't happen as quickly as we might have liked, but, he isn't Walt Disney and he seems to have had to come in through the servants entrance and not the main door like we had become used to.

 

[geekza]

I will wholeheartedly give Iger credit for bringing Marvel and Lucasfilm into the Disney company. Both of those were masterful business decisions that will benefit the company, both financially and creatively, for years to come. He's a really great businessman.

However... Someone can be great at making deals and still falter in other ways. A great overall leader is someone who is able to surround themselves with subordinates whose talents lie in the particular field over which they have authority and is able to provide them the trust and resources they need to be successful in their endeavors. A good leader knows both his strengths and his weaknesses and is a good listener.

I think the theatrical division has done really well under Iger because he has people like Kathleen Kennedy, Kevin Feige, and, until recently, John Lasseter. He has allowed them to run their respective divisions and his trust in them has paid off. Iger's background is in media and the success of that part of Disney shows that his talents in that field are being put to good use.

Then there are the theme parks. Theme parks are a completely different kind of business, with different operating demands and different expectations from customers. Disney theme parks are their own subset of theme parks. Current leadership simply sees the parks as a revenue stream. Yes, that is the overall benefit they bring to the company. Even Walt didn't run Disneyland as a charity. Until the latter half of Eisner's tenure, however, there was still passion in the upper echelon of Disney Corporate to truly make the parks special and to deliver a level of quality that other parks couldn't even begin to approach.

I'm going to pull a Kanye here, but Bob Iger doesn't care about the parks. That is why we have IP taking over Epcot. That is why we have a giant square building that is almost as tall as Spaceship Earth being erected. That is why Rapunzel's Tower sticks up so prominently in Liberty Square. That is why Hollywood Studios no longer has a theme. That is why there is talk of building a hotel near the Epcot entrance. In my opinion, Iger only cares about packing as many people into the parks as possible and charging them as much as possible to be there. He has no interest in making the parks better and he has not placed people in charge of the parks who have a passion for them and who have the trust and resources they need to really be stewards of the legacy that Walt left behind.

You can disagree with me and that's fine. I'd love to be proven wrong, but so far, I haven't been and don't expect to be anytime soon.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Until now, I agree, but, we really have to include now and not just yesterday. Besides, overall, his acquisitions may indeed be the turning point for the parks. Before one can get to a destination the road must be traveled. I'm not saying that what he has done isn't just a happy coincidence, but, it still may have huge positive affects on theme parks, especially Disney Theme Parks. It just didn't happen as quickly as we might have liked, but, he isn't Walt Disney and he seems to have had to come in through the servants entrance and not the main door like we had become used to.

I am optimistic about the acquired IP becoming a big part of the parks, but there is no excuse for the lack of attractions at WDW during the Iger reign. There is always a bigger plan, the reality was/is simply not good enough.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I am optimistic about the acquired IP becoming a big part of the parks, but there is no excuse for the lack of attractions at WDW during the Iger reign. There is always a bigger plan, the reality was/is simply not good enough.

Yea, I suppose, but, we cannot change the past and carrying everything over to the present can only create irreparable anger that after the fact really has no importance. We don't know where it would have been if Iger had taken a direct interest earlier and to think that had he got more involved things might be better. They might very well be worse.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Yea, I suppose, but, we cannot change the past and carrying everything over to the present can only create irreparable anger that after the fact really has no importance. We don't know where it would have been if Iger had taken a direct interest earlier and to think that had he got more involved things might be better. They might very well be worse.

I have annual passes, so I must not be too angry. I'm just facing the facts.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I have annual passes, so I must not be too angry. I'm just facing the facts.

I'm fine with that, but, I'm not sure that facts actually add up to failure for the parks. You perceive them as bad, I don't necessarily. History will be the judge of that. I wouldn't and didn't stop going either, but, I also have never run a billion dollar mega-business and second guessing may be right or it could be hugely wrong. Only time will tell. I remember when Iger was announced as the person that was to take over from Eisner. All the experts were joyous because the park savior had arrived. What everyone seems to forget is that there is a lot more to The Disney Company then the theme parks. Unfortunately, that is our main focus, but, the big picture has to be looked at.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I will wholeheartedly give Iger credit for bringing Marvel and Lucasfilm into the Disney company. Both of those were masterful business decisions that will benefit the company, both financially and creatively, for years to come. He's a really great businessman.

However... Someone can be great at making deals and still falter in other ways. A great overall leader is someone who is able to surround themselves with subordinates whose talents lie in the particular field over which they have authority and is able to provide them the trust and resources they need to be successful in their endeavors. A good leader knows both his strengths and his weaknesses and is a good listener.

I think the theatrical division has done really well under Iger because he has people like Kathleen Kennedy, Kevin Feige, and, until recently, John Lasseter. He has allowed them to run their respective divisions and his trust in them has paid off. Iger's background is in media and the success of that part of Disney shows that his talents in that field are being put to good use.

Then there are the theme parks. Theme parks are a completely different kind of business, with different operating demands and different expectations from customers. Disney theme parks are their own subset of theme parks. Current leadership simply sees the parks as a revenue stream. Yes, that is the overall benefit they bring to the company. Even Walt didn't run Disneyland as a charity. Until the latter half of Eisner's tenure, however, there was still passion in the upper echelon of Disney Corporate to truly make the parks special and to deliver a level of quality that other parks couldn't even begin to approach.

I'm going to pull a Kanye here, but Bob Iger doesn't care about the parks. That is why we have IP taking over Epcot. That is why we have a giant square building that is almost as tall as Spaceship Earth being erected. That is why Rapunzel's Tower sticks up so prominently in Liberty Square. That is why Hollywood Studios no longer has a theme. That is why there is talk of building a hotel near the Epcot entrance. In my opinion, Iger only cares about packing as many people into the parks as possible and charging them as much as possible to be there. He has no interest in making the parks better and he has not placed people in charge of the parks who have a passion for them and who have the trust and resources they need to really be stewards of the legacy that Walt left behind.

You can disagree with me and that's fine. I'd love to be proven wrong, but so far, I haven't been and don't expect to be anytime soon.

But let me throw out a question. Is Bob Igers job to care about the parks? In the real world of mega corps, the CEO is NOT brought in to actively run a particular section. Bluntly, Iger was brought in to increase share and share value. He has done that. Now Bob Chapek is the head of Disney parks what's he been doing?
Now I totally agree about the "legacy " but here's the thing IMO once you go public as a company you've pretty much conceded that the emphasis is NOT on being a steward of a legacy that they may or maynot even be aware of. It's actually an issue small restaurants, once the original guy dies, often times the kids, grandkids etc don't have the love for the place that the 1st guy did
And going forward, where does that leave those who live in this expectation of what the parks "were"? For example the visitor today is happy. The visitor today does want IPs. Would the general visitor really care that HS doesn't have a "theme". lol I've been going since 1990 and had no idea it had a theme until I came here.
Sorry, I don't think its a matter of proving you wrong or right, simply put the things you guys seem concerned with I really don't think people give a hoot about. "original" so called "creative" rides? People seem to want the Harry Potters and the marvel land. The size of a tower?? could care less.
Again I have to say I did not go before so I have no reference.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I'm fine with that, but, I'm not sure that facts actually add up to failure for the parks. You perceive them as bad, I don't necessarily. History will be the judge of that. I wouldn't and didn't stop going either, but, I also have never run a billion dollar mega-business and second guessing may be right or it could be hugely wrong. Only time will tell. I remember when Iger was announced as the person that was to take over from Eisner. All the experts were joyous because the park savior had arrived. What everyone seems to forget is that there is a lot more to The Disney Company then the theme parks. Unfortunately, that is our main focus, but, the big picture has to be looked at.

You interpreted my observation as me thinking the parks are “bad?” You got me totally wrong.

I don’t think the parks are bad, at all. I love WDW despite the lack of E-Tickets under Iger. I defend the parks with passion at times. I call DHS a full day park. I don’t think the magic is gone. I don’t mind the price increases. I understand it’s a business.

I’m an investor, so I do look at DIS from a big picture perspective as well. I try to separate the two when I’m here, because I’m on this forum for my love for Disney World, not for my investment. That is separate and as a shareholder, I’m happy with Iger in many respects.

To this point, he’s been terrible for WDW diehards. Despite it all, Disney World is so great, he can’t and hasn’t ruined it. The lack of E-Tickets and meangingul expansion at WDW are my major issues and I think those are objective failures. Yes, there are things coming, but we languished for more than a decade and pretty much got a disappointing new Fantasyland, a closure of one of the best attractions at DHS, and I’d say about 2/3 of what Avatar could be. I do think Avatar is a huge success, but could have been more.

 

[marni1971]

But let me throw out a question. Is Bob Igers job to care about the parks? In the real world of mega corps, the CEO is NOT brought in to actively run a particular section. Bluntly, Iger was brought in to increase share and share value. He has done that. Now Bob Chapek is the head of Disney parks what's he been doing?
.

Many expected Iger to manage the parks as well as Eisner did in his golden years.

Now Chapek is head of Parks we just have to wait for his successor.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Many expected Iger to manage the parks as well as Eisner did in his golden years.

Now Chapek is head of Parks we just have to wait for his successor.

Lol I feel bad for the poor sap because there is nothing he can do to win this expectation.
I firmly believe that there is no going "back". I work for a big fortune 100 chemical company located in De. lol been in business since the american revolution, when I got hired it was the "golden" age of employees. Great healthcare, I'm one of the last mohicans that gets a pension from a private company, company really cared about it's employees, free turkeys at the holidays etc etc. let's fast forward to today, enough said or politicians that promise the poor coal workers that they will "return" the industry to it's former glory. simply not going to happen.

Let me ask you, what do folks who are waiting for his successor, hope to have happen??

 

[KINGLOUIS1993]

I think the average guest is exactly the same as yourself. I've been going there for 35 years, since 1983 and I agree with you whole heartedly. If I enjoyed an attraction, I enjoyed it. I don't need a bunch of might have been or could have been, it just is what it is. That's coming from someone that was there during the Fabulous Years. They weren't all as great as many seem to remember. I never went until I was 35 years old. I saw none of it through the eyes of a child. I saw the good, the bad and the ugly from the very beginning.

The important thing is to go there because YOU like what is there not because someone tells you that you have to be disappointed that it isn't as good as before, because, although there has been a lot of change, it is still better then it was back then, just fewer freebie's.

Bang on