Pleasure Island Clubs To Close?

[markc]

Downtown Disney is FAR from a hotbed of trouble. These two incidents are fairly minor compared to what goes on DAILY at most other nightclubs and bars. I don't mean to call you naive, but clearly you haven't a clue as to what goes on at most clubs/bars. As somebody who has family who runs multiple bars/clubs in several major cities, I can tell you that it isn't pretty. PI clubs have a fairly impecable safety record and the amount of large incidents that occur are fairly minor.

I also implore you to find any underage drinking at Pleasure Island....because I almost guarantee that you won't. Not only are they extremely strict with letting in 21+ over in the clubs (and sometimes on the island as well, blocking off each of the entrances and having the security guards check ids), but anybody caught drinking on the island without a wristband is immediately kicked out. Again - PI's underage drinking levels, if any, are far below the industry standard of a normal bar.

I understand this situation... Sometimes having loud parents with the loud kids and those God forsaken strollers running around everywhere is super annoying. Especially at 11pm and on- I mean, don't those kids need to go to bed? But, you can't deny Downtown is a hotbed of trouble. I remember these two incidents this year alone.

Pipe Bomb-Like Device Explodes at Disney
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-6752534,00.html

Victims of Downtown Disney kidnapping decide not to prosecute.
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-31275468_ITM

Not to mention the amount of totally disrespectful, rowdy underaged (and obviously drinking) kids running around at all hours. And by disrespectful, I don't just mean to families with little ones, I mean to us all. Something should be done about it.

 

[markc]

The 2005 meeting definitely occurred, and Church Street Station--not Citywalk or anything else--was the reason back then. Some people were very upset because Disney had recently spent a lot of money opening Motion. These plans are nearly three years old, so they've obviously changed by now.

Sorry, but there are two major flaws with your explanation there which leads me to believe it's fabricated.

Church Street Station has been closed for YEARS, even as of 2005. Now Church Street, is a different situation, but it would hardly be the focus of concern for Disney. Wall Street was/is more of a threat to the concept of PI than the current Church Street lineup. Even with the introduction of Club Paris on Church Street in 2005, nobody at Disney was concerned.

Second of all, Motion opened up in 2001, a good four years before these discussions supposedly took place. Hardly any money, or that which would be considered substantial, was put into the club to upset anybody, or any VP's, if it were to be closed.

Fact of the matter was, that back then, there was never any talk of closing any of the clubs. What was discussed, per a source in Imagineering, was a reinvention of the Island, after the decision was made to remove the West End Stage, the old PI Explosion Dancers Stage, and the original bridge from the West Side. Ideas were thrown out like any brainstorming session, but action was never taken. Joe Rhode was seen walking through downtown disney much throughout Dec 2005 to analyze, from a visual aspect, what changes needed to be made, but no major changes materialized other than what we've seen.

 

[markc]

PI's problems lie in several different issues

- high prices - Drinks are overpriced and admission to all the clubs is far higher than anything in Orlando. It's impossible to attract locals when the prices drive away most anybody looking to drink. Where are the drink specials that other bars offer to bring in the crowds? PI doesn't have it...and will continue to hurt until they learn it's necessary to survive. $2 watered down beer on Monday's and thursdays isn't enough to bring in a good crowd.


- 21+ over policy - Ever since PI went 21 and over, the nail in the coffin was sealed. There's a reason why clubs allow 18+ girls (or guys in some cases) in other places - it brings in the crowds. Mid 20 year old guys want to be able to socialize with girls 18-21....a younger crowd generally equates to a more attractive crowd, which generates a larger outside 21 and over crowd. Add to that, that a good percentage of CMs are under 21, and by alienating one of your biggest internal support groups from a patronage standpoint, you are only hurting yourself.

- Lack of awareness - Disney fails to market PI in the same vein that Universal markets CW to the local crowd or to the other hotels in the area (outside Disney property). Lack of marketing, means lack of crowds. The bar industry is far different than the theme park industry - Disney has yet to realize this..even after running PI for over 18 years.

Until these issues are fixed, PI will continue to flounder. Disney has the right venues in place - they just need to execute it correctly.

 

[mrssparrow]

I guess I shouldn't really say this, but many moons ago, I got in under 21 and had fun... as early as last year, my sister's boyfriend was also allowed to have 21+ fun too....

 

[hokielutz]

You may have missed the part where I said I came from clubs... DW was also a Club Manager for almost 3 years and recently left.

And furthermore, CW's lack of revenue has nothing to do with Cast Member pay, it has to do with the fact that they barely sell any drinks... another very suspicious comment that someone would think it has to do with CM Pay. If you have 2 clubs... 1 is cheap to run and brings in 50k a night, and 1 is expensive to run and brings in 2k a night, which do you keep and which do you close?

To continue on your point. The CW will only sell maybe one drink per person during the session, but not everyone orders. And there are what 4 shows a night? 8 Traxx has people coming and going the entire time and probably holds 4 times the patrons that Comedy can seat at one time. People in the dance clubs order more than one drink. Do the math and you will see a multiple difference in revenue and profit between the two.

Also, I am not advocating the closure or keep open of any club. Just trying to validate imayoyo's point.

 

[hokielutz]

I would prefer to see something from a first-person source for these meetings/discussions that happened. So far all I have read are 3rd person accounts of different stories.

I would tend to believe people who were actually in the know or part of the management teams at the time.

Also remember that Disney has gotten more proficient in keeping accurate details about future changes out of the public spotlight for the last several years.

 

[majortom1981]

hmm

Pleasure Islands policies are there biggest downfall. First off they alllow 18 and under to go to places like the adventurers club and comedy club with people older then 21 but you have to buy the full pass. That right there is a huge thing.

Also when I was there the type of people that were there are the bad kind. A group of 10 people over 21 went around to the stilt walkers and tried to trip them and security stood there and laughed instead of doing anything.

The clubs were filled with people like that the night I was there. Pleasure island when I was there at least felt like they catered to the idk and like to cause trouble part of the population instead of the carring ill spend more but want a good experience part of the population.

 

[sknydave]

I've been to Pleasure Island at least 100 times and I have yet to see a single altercation of any kind

 

[phichi17]

Pleasure Islands policies are there biggest downfall. First off they alllow 18 and under to go to places like the adventurers club and comedy club with people older then 21 but you have to buy the full pass. That right there is a huge thing.

Also when I was there the type of people that were there are the bad kind. A group of 10 people over 21 went around to the stilt walkers and tried to trip them and security stood there and laughed instead of doing anything.

The clubs were filled with people like that the night I was there. Pleasure island when I was there at least felt like they catered to the idk and like to cause trouble part of the population instead of the carring ill spend more but want a good experience part of the population.

???

 

[bfbulldog]

Follow Up Information

From Screamscape



Make of it what you will

Fans of the Pleasure Island nightlife will want to take note of this latest rumor. According to Screamscape sources we’ve heard that there could be some fairly significant changes to Pleasure Island starting in 2008. In fact, as early as January we could see Disney begin the process of shutting down the various nightclubs one by one. I don’t know if this is just for remodeling, a total revamp of the PI concept, or something else entirely. I’m also not sure if the term “club” applied to just the drinking/dancing clubs or if this rumor also applies to the Adventurer’s Club or the Comedy Warehouse.
I know that in the last year or two Disney completed a new remodeling of Pleasure Island to allow foot traffic to better flow through it from the West End to the Marketplace side. This along with the admission changes were supposed to be just the first step of many for a complete overall remodel of the Pleasure Island concept. Back when that was all still just a rumor I had heard at the time that Disney was in talks with Lucky Strike Lanes to convert the Beach Club into one of their high-end bowling clubs. I’ve got to wonder if that deal is still on the table or if it was just one of many that were in the works. Can anyone shed a little light on just what might be going on?

Screamscape followed up with this:

The latest rumors surrounding the rumored next phase of redevelopment at Pleasure Island indicate that the Rock & Roll Beach Club is slated to be the first club to close down. Again… this matches the rumors I heard a couple of years ago when they were looking to put a club-style bowling alley concept in there. If the timeline holds true as well, we could see the Beach Club closed by January. The next two likely victims will be 8-Trax and Motions, though their fates may be very different. According to one source, they may be planning on finding a way to merge the 8-Trax space with Mannequins to create an even larger space. I’ve no idea if this means a new bigger Mannequins or if the new will be merged into an entirely new concept.

 

[ImaYoyo]

Screamscape followed up with this:

The latest rumors surrounding the rumored next phase of redevelopment at Pleasure Island indicate that the Rock & Roll Beach Club is slated to be the first club to close down. Again… this matches the rumors I heard a couple of years ago when they were looking to put a club-style bowling alley concept in there. If the timeline holds true as well, we could see the Beach Club closed by January. The next two likely victims will be 8-Trax and Motions, though their fates may be very different. According to one source, they may be planning on finding a way to merge the 8-Trax space with Mannequins to create an even larger space. I’ve no idea if this means a new bigger Mannequins or if the new will be merged into an entirely new concept.

Well now! I certainly know who at screamscape heard that and reported that (or rather, who it was taken from). Ug. Now I'm not a happy camper...

Thank you bulldog for posting that.

BTW, the bowling alley rumor has been around since the late 90's. It's right up there with the Disney Quest closing this january (which has been EVERY january) rumor. Not to mention, January is an odd time to close something that generates Disney revenue and change it to something that generates 3rd party revenue, from a fiscal point of view. 3 months of reporting on something you KNEW you were getting rid of? Seems odd....

 

[sknydave]

It will probably be years before Disney even looks at closing DQ. That place gets some serious crowds. I imagine they will look to put something else in that building in a few years when everything in there is even more dated.

 

[TravisMT81]

I really hope they knock out the wall that is between 8Trax and Mannequins that is at the landing of the stairs. These are my two favorite clubs and we are always going in between them anyway. Then they could turn the upstairs in to an ultra lounge so in essence making three different clubs in one big space.

 

[WDWKat26]

Well now! I certainly know who at screamscape heard that and reported that (or rather, who it was taken from). Ug. Now I'm not a happy camper...

Thank you bulldog for posting that.

BTW, the bowling alley rumor has been around since the late 90's. It's right up there with the Disney Quest closing this january (which has been EVERY january) rumor. Not to mention, January is an odd time to close something that generates Disney revenue and change it to something that generates 3rd party revenue, from a fiscal point of view. 3 months of reporting on something you KNEW you were getting rid of? Seems odd....

Maybe because Jan. is considered a "down time". There aren't as many guests in the parks. :shrug:

 

[Grumpy-Fan]

And with all that being said; I don`t think I will be taking my wife there. What is A good place to go out, dance and have A few cocktails within the kingdom?

 

[Brian_WDW74]

And with all that being said; I don`t think I will be taking my wife there. What is A good place to go out, dance and have A few cocktails within the kingdom?

The Boardwalk. Lots of choices there and inside the nearby Yacht and Beach Clubs, not to mention that it's only a 5-10 minute walk to Epcot with its varied and various venues.

 

[tirian]

Sorry, but there are two major flaws with your explanation there which leads me to believe it's fabricated.

Sorry, but it's not fabricated.

At the time that the 2005 discussions occurred, folks were concerned about CSS, but that has turned out not to be a threat, similar to the way that Eisner was afraid that IoA would threaten the MK but didn't.

I'm not claiming that Disney dumped money into Motion, but it was a relatively new club when PI's transformation was being considered.

I never claimed that PI was going to shut down tomorrow, or that Screamscape is correct. I'm just repeating what I know occurred: in 2005, execs were concerned about Club Paris at CSS and Citywalk, and decided that PI wasn't profitable enough compared to the rest of WDW. Disney immediately starting renovating PI to attract more Guests.

That is almost three years ago. A lot has obviously changed since then. I'm just repeating what the original plan was. :wave:

 

[tirian]

Here's a brief rundown about this. Just remember, the OP quoted Screamscape (no offense, OP), so don't take the deadline too seriously...yet.

In 2005, the PI management was told that PI has not been profitable for years, and the area would slowly become more family-friendly. Eventually all the dance clubs would be phased out, with only AC and CC remaining. Disney finally conceded that they cannot compete with the new Church Street Station atmosphere without losing its family-friendly status. Although the announcements were made, rumors soon circulated that the changes would not be as dramatic as Disney originally implied.

In 2006, various parts of PI were refurbed and opened to allow better Guest traffic through the area. Guests were essentially forced to go through the area, both to unify the West Side and Marketplace, and to (hopefully) bring more traffic to PI. The first part of the plan worked. The second didn't.

Now, in late 2007, PI managers have been reminded of the coming changes, and the changes appear to be dramatic again...for now. No timeframe has been finalized.

I'm quoting myself so that people will stop accusing me of lying. Please notice what I highlighted. This was discussed in 2005, not yesterday.

Also, I titled my first post "History of This Rumor." I'm sorry if some people can't read objectively. :shrug:

 

[bfbulldog]

I'm quoting myself so that people will stop accusing me of lying. Please notice what I highlighted. This was discussed in 2005, not yesterday.

Also, I titled my first post "History of This Rumor." I'm sorry if some people can't read objectively. :shrug:

I don't think you're lying at all. I think that the dramatic changes which have occurred over the last couple of years at PI have only confirmed the information you've presented.

All you have to do is go over to PI to see firsthand all the changes, it would also be misguided to believe that the changes implemented thus far would be the end of the transformation. Like it or not, I expect more changes are coming to PI and those changes are coming sooner rather than later.

 

[GeneralKnowledge]

I also implore you to find any underage drinking at Pleasure Island....because I almost guarantee that you won't. Not only are they extremely strict with letting in 21+ over in the clubs (and sometimes on the island as well, blocking off each of the entrances and having the security guards check ids), but anybody caught drinking on the island without a wristband is immediately kicked out. Again - PI's underage drinking levels, if any, are far below the industry standard of a normal bar.

This is very incorrect. Before I was 21, I did PLENTY of underage drinking in PI. There is a sizeable population of local college students that find ways to get around the restrictions at PI.