Plastic shopping bags

[eliza61nyc]

Actually I don't think anyone really knows if the plastic bag will last longer than your tote or not. If you look at where the 1000 years to breakdown comes from it is based on a test done using microbes that would breakdown organic materials. The scientist that came up with the 1000 years number basically used a flawed test because they based it off placing a sample of plastic material in a container with microbes that wouldn't eat the plastic and then extrapolated the data into 1000 years. Reality is plastic hasn't been around for 1000 years, hasn't even been around for 100 years so those numbers are just guesses. Reality is some plastics don't like UV rays and will become brittle and breakdown very quickly in sunlight, which wasn't how the samples were tested. If you changed the tests that were used to use sunlight instead of microbes you would find that things like plastic would breakdown much faster than things like cotton used in totes if the only agent used to break them down was light. But for some reason environmentalist latched onto the 1000 years for plastic to breakdown number and have pushed it as if it were some irrefutable fact when it is really more of a myth. If plastics lasted 1000 years would you ever see old cars and trucks with cracked plastic dashboards?

Naw not entirely true or let me say rather you tried to simplify it to make an argument. of course we have a good idea if they will last longer than organic fibers. I'm a polymer chemist, while the 1000 years is not based on actual physical data because you are right they haven't been around 1000 years. we do have some experience with extrapolation and we've got some really nifty toys attached to our computers. lol. Now as far as the UV claim, you are doing the same thing thing, you are making aclaim and not giving the entire information. first of all sunlight is not 100% uv light so even if some plastics break down easily in UV rays (and polypropylene does not so it depends on what the plastic is made of) it's not like empty water bottles are sitting around under a UV lamp all day. and again sunlight is a mixed bag of tricks.
Next the ones that do breakdown in uv light emit off a far worse problem. lol call Dupont chemicals and ask them how their PFOA problem is going. All those teflon coatings that are breaking down into cancer causing nastiness. the epa banned BPA recently, and that's what makes up quite a bit of our plastic. they've been finding it in babies bottles, water bottles etc. so let's say your plastic does break down real quick, that ain't a good thing.

We've got tons and tons of research from major universities that have millions of grad students with hours to kill trying to make a name for themselves proving those plastic water bottles last a very long time.

listen, again I'm not some ultra environmentalist that say ban plastic, it's a great discovery with tons of applications and lol that would be shooting myself in the foot and i need a job for a while longer BUT we can no longer pretend that the over abundance of the stuff is not doing harm. it is.

Also, let's work on developing new types of polymers that aren't so bad for the environment and our health. nothing sparks innovation like banning some thing. like I said previously I know of two studies that are trying to make disposable bags out of a combo of plastic and corn starch. that is so cool and I know one major chemical company that is trying to develop little bugs and enzymes that love to eat plastic.


edited to add: it's been a hundred years since i worked in polymer synthesis so I do think the development of plastics has probably gotten a lot better. I work in Paper/pulp water synthesis now.

Edited to ask? why are folks so resisted to this?? I mean is the ability to drink out of a plastic straw life altering? Carry your stuff in a cloth bag as opposed to plastic detrimental???

 

[wdisney9000]

If anything, it should make for good people watching to post up near a register on Main Street and watch the reactions of people being asked if they want to carry their item(s) out.

 

[graphite1326]

To fix a problem, you have to start somewhere....

You do all this minuscule problem fixing in the United States you want. It won't make a difference. Until you get China under control you are wasting your time. And don't give me that line that we would be leading the way. They don't care.

 

[graphite1326]

So here is what I will do if we go back. We have Disney bags left over. I will fold one up, put it n my pocket and hand it to the cashier when I make a purchase. "Put it in that please."

 

[thomas998]

Naw not entirely true or let me say rather you tried to simplify it to make an argument. of course we have a good idea if they will last longer than organic fibers. I'm a polymer chemist, while the 1000 years is not based on actual physical data because you are right they haven't been around 1000 years. we do have some experience with extrapolation and we've got some really nifty toys attached to our computers. lol. Now as far as the UV claim, you are doing the same thing thing, you are making aclaim and not giving the entire information. first of all sunlight is not 100% uv light so even if some plastics break down easily in UV rays (and polypropylene does not so it depends on what the plastic is made of) it's not like empty water bottles are sitting around under a UV lamp all day. and again sunlight is a mixed bag of tricks.
Next the ones that do breakdown in uv light emit off a far worse problem. lol call Dupont chemicals and ask them how their PFOA problem is going. All those teflon coatings that are breaking down into cancer causing nastiness. the epa banned BPA recently, and that's what makes up quite a bit of our plastic. they've been finding it in babies bottles, water bottles etc. so let's say your plastic does break down real quick, that ain't a good thing.

We've got tons and tons of research from major universities that have millions of grad students with hours to kill trying to make a name for themselves proving those plastic water bottles last a very long time.

listen, again I'm not some ultra environmentalist that say ban plastic, it's a great discovery with tons of applications and lol that would be shooting myself in the foot and i need a job for a while longer BUT we can no longer pretend that the over abundance of the stuff is not doing harm. it is.

Also, let's work on developing new types of polymers that aren't so bad for the environment and our health. nothing sparks innovation like banning some thing. like I said previously I know of two studies that are trying to make disposable bags out of a combo of plastic and corn starch. that is so cool and I know one major chemical company that is trying to develop little bugs and enzymes that love to eat plastic.


edited to add: it's been a hundred years since i worked in polymer synthesis so I do think the development of plastics has probably gotten a lot better. I work in Paper/pulp water synthesis now.

Edited to ask? why are folks so resisted to this?? I mean is the ability to drink out of a plastic straw life altering? Carry your stuff in a cloth bag as opposed to plastic detrimental???

Yes I simplified things because this is a Disney forum not one dedicated to science discussions... but if you want to go down that road. The enzyme that breaks down plastic is based on enzymes from Idenonella sakaiensis 201-F6, the companies trying to develop enzymes are just trying to develop patentable and faster working enzymes than are created by the natural bacteria as you can't patent a bacteria that exist in nature.

But I have a problem with extrapolations done in labs because the real world where plastic bottles will be decomposing aren't the same as the lab environments. Imagine the labs introduced that previously mentioned bacteria, would those plastics in the lab decompose faster? Probably and that minor addition would likely result in a completely different extrapolated timeline for the plastics. In the end we can see how long cotton can last, and it can last along time in the right conditions more than 5000 years if you look at the oldest known cloth that has been found.

As for how bad plastics are, maybe they are bad maybe they aren't... Clearly when plastic gets disposed of improperly and ends up in the ocean it causes problems... but plastic that just gets dumped in a landfill is no more of a problem than any other garbage that gets disposed of properly. I tend to take anything pushed by DuPont with a grain of salt given their past behavior regarding things such as Freon where they actually took action to push for the Montreal Protocol that eliminated CFCs because it suited their business. As I recall it was Irving Shapiro at Dupont that pushed the company to break ranks with the other chemical companies in endorsing environmental laws that while pushed as safeguards would also result in creating higher barriers to entry in the chemical industry to help protect Dupont. Dupont was also pushing for the CFCs bans because they had developed other refrigerants that would result in Dupont being in the cat birds seat when CFCs were banned. Not saying BPA's are good, just not sure plastics are big bad monster the environmentalist want us to see them as.

 

[Touchdown]

If only there was a cheap alternative to plastic, you know a wood type product, it could be recyclable...


Of course it is slightly more expensive to provide paper bags but if a company truly cared about the environment and was removing plastic solely for that reason then it would offer paper bags. This is about controlling costs and using the environment as an excuse.

 

[ninjaprincesst]

They could use paper bags, no? The ones with the nice little handles on them? Probably what was used back in the 70s

No because it rains almost every day in Florida and you need the plastic to keep your purchases dry, that is also another problem with the reusable bags.

 

[Minnie1976]

So have they eliminated the no plastic shopping bags or do you still put your purchases in a bag without buying one.

No! Unless you buy a bag you get no bag. DISNEY IS GREEDY!

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Any time that I have said that I do not need a bag, that I was going to put it in the one I already had, they always said OK and just handed me my item. I have never had a bag forced on me. Just take the item out of the bag and hand the bag back to them. Big deal.

Alas, you missed my point.

WDW hands out bags that aren't needed, and reducing waste is a good thing.

WDW reducing a mere 100 bags/day = 36,500 bags per year!

Small differences add up, especially for companies as big as Disney.

 

[righttrack]

I have re-usable grocery bags I've been using for 15 years. I've gone over a year without a single plastic bag from Publix or other grocery stores.

Agree with you on that yet people in my town (also plastic bag free here) purchase and dispose of re-usable grocery bags like disposable ones. Much worse for the environment as they are definitely not biodegradable.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

And I remember being in California in the 70's when you had to ask for water in a restaurant, people thought it was going to be that way everywhere.... Almost 50 years later and I still get water without asking in the midwest and south... Just because environmentalists have managed to railroad ridiculous plastic bans into those states doesn't mean they will get them in everywhere. At the moment places like Disney are pandering to a small minority but only because they see it as a way to make money selling bags.

Huh.

I've waited many tables. Simply, I always asked my customers what they wanted to drink, and brought them what they said they wanted.
Many folks don't want extra dishes on the table, especially families with small children. Extra cups = extra spills, less space, and more dishes for staff to clear+wash. I didn't consider it a grand conspiracy, rather good customer service.

That's the norm at most places I dine, even non-WDW FL, except restaurants that serve spicy foods. A few Asian places also automatically bring a pot of tea, but even many Asian places now ask- especially when small kids are present. A few places bring a self-serve carafe on the table, but even some of those ask if we want it. We are probably dining in different places.

I never thought of it as any kind of grand environmental conspiracy, I just prefer less clutter when I'm eating.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

You do all this minuscule problem fixing in the United States you want. It won't make a difference. Until you get China under control you are wasting your time. And don't give me that line that we would be leading the way. They don't care.

I don't think it is accurate to say China doesn't care about environmental issues.

China invests where they see value. Currently, they see value in improving their image.


Simply, they are making big investments in many areas. They are getting away from low-end manufacturing and investing heavily in low-carbon, higher-end manufacturing technology, for example.

China is the world's number one producer of solar panels. They have also been aggressively using solar themselves.

We'd do well to pay attention to what China is doing.

 

[po1998]

Wife and daughter just got back yesterday with purchases in same type of plastic bags Disney has been using for years.


Interesting side note, visited the Alamo this part spring. No bags were given out with purchases, no matter what or how many items you purchased. They had ones you could buy, and I believe they were $3-4 bucks each but I can't remember exact price. I walked across the street to the San Antonio Visitor Center, explained to them what happened, and they were glad to give me a free bag from their store.

 

[jaklgreen]

Alas, you missed my point.

WDW hands out bags that aren't needed, and reducing waste is a good thing.

WDW reducing a mere 100 bags/day = 36,500 bags per year!

Small differences add up, especially for companies as big as Disney.

I don't think the cast members are intentionally handing out bags that are not needed. It is routine to put someone's purchase in a bag. They might not even see that you have other bags if they are below the counter line. All you have to do is say no thanks, or just hand the bag back to them. The cast members are not villains wanting to destroy the environment one bag at a time. We need to take our own personal responsibility. If you don't need the bag, then don't take it.

 

[graphite1326]

I don't think it is accurate to say China doesn't care about environmental issues.

China invests where they see value. Currently, they see value in improving their image.


Simply, they are making big investments in many areas. They are getting away from low-end manufacturing and investing heavily in low-carbon, higher-end manufacturing technology, for example.

China is the world's number one producer of solar panels. They have also been aggressively using solar themselves.

We'd do well to pay attention to what China is doing.

They are still the number one polluter.

 

[GCTales]

I don't think it is accurate to say China doesn't care about environmental issues.

China invests where they see value. Currently, they see value in improving their image.


Simply, they are making big investments in many areas. They are getting away from low-end manufacturing and investing heavily in low-carbon, higher-end manufacturing technology, for example.

China is the world's number one producer of solar panels. They have also been aggressively using solar themselves.

We'd do well to pay attention to what China is doing.

Coal is still the number one source for power generation (over 50%) and a power plant in China does not have the EPA breathing down thier neck about emissions from the stacks, like the US - just ask anyone in Vietnam living downwind. Solar makes up less than 5%.

Hydroelectric is number two - after they built the three gorges damn - and the environmental consequences associated with it - flooding towns, pollution, and forcing people to move are well documented.

China cares about the appearance - not the underlying issue. They are more likely to hide the results and bury / deny it than prevent it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm sorry but I'm way behind... am I understanding this correctly... If I walk in the Emporium and buy a t-shirt, they're not going to give me a bag to put it in?

 

[Minnie1976]

I'm sorry but I'm way behind... am I understanding this correctly... If I walk in the Emporium and buy a t-shirt, they're not going to give me a bag to put it in?

Right! Not unless you buy one.

 

[Minnie1976]

If I go in a store anywhere and buy their merchandise, I expect to be offered at least a paper bag to carry my purchases in. I should not have to buy a bag after spending money in their store. Has the world gone CRAZY! I expect to be treated with respect. Telling me to purchase a bag or carry out the merchandise
in my arms is not good customer service. Shame, shame shame on Disney .
I am not a guest but a customer. They need to change their terminology!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Right! Not unless you buy one.

Is this actually confirmed anywhere? Or has anyone experienced it firsthand? All I can find are internet rumors.