Pixar's Onward

[Magenta Panther]

In the words of yoda, that is why you fail. I'll repeat, NO ONE thinks they will be huge again. And yes, it is a strange hate you have. You keep going on about all these people who want the muppets to be some go to franchise. But that isn't what anyone is saying.

And how do you figure that? The 2011 movie exceeded its budget by the reported cost of the franchise. That, coupled with licensing, commercials... It has made money for Disney. I get it, you don't think Disney should have purchased them. And that is perfectly fine. Same for star wars, marvel and Pixar. But this nonsense that the muppets have no relevance, or can't have any, is wrong. I've pointed out that the muppet viral videos garnered more views than most all of the Mickey shorts. That alone shows they have relevance.

I don't see how views on viral videos prove much of anything. Quirky flash-in-the-pan stuff goes viral all the time. Big deal.

Yes, Muppet merch is so profitable that 2/3rds of the store in WDW that was dedicated to them is full of Mickey stuff. Because THAT sells.

"Exceeded its budget by the reported cost of the franchise"? Uh huh. Did you factor marketing into that budget? My guess is no. Let's look at an example of how marketing affects a movie's take. From BombReport.com:
DreamWorks Animation’s Penguins of Madagascar pulled in $373.4 million at the worldwide box office on a $132 million budget, but took a $57 million write-down on the film because of marketing costs of about $130 million.

And even if the 2011 film was profitable, the flopping of the second flick has pretty much guaranteed that there will no new Muppet theatrical films in the future, so there's that.

The tragedy of the ill-fated Muppet purchase in not so much that the tacky things are in WDW (thankfully, nowhere else for now), but that it started a trend of soulless CEOs buying up other franchises and sticking them in the parks willy-nilly, which is why we now have Guardians of the Galaxy in EPCOT and Star Wars in Disneyland. If this trend continues, it's all too likely that the Disney Parks will become a hodge-podge of off-brand purchases with maybe a little actual Disney-generated/adapted properties sprinkled in here and there. In other words, Disney and Universal will eventually become interchangeable. What was special about Disney will be no more. Maybe that's fine with you, but it will never sit well with me. And that's that.

 

[Tony Perkis]

In the words of yoda, that is why you fail. I'll repeat, NO ONE thinks they will be huge again. And yes, it is a strange hate you have. You keep going on about all these people who want the muppets to be some go to franchise. But that isn't what anyone is saying.

And how do you figure that? The 2011 movie exceeded its budget by the reported cost of the franchise. That, coupled with licensing, commercials... It has made money for Disney. I get it, you don't think Disney should have purchased them. And that is perfectly fine. Same for star wars, marvel and Pixar. But this nonsense that the muppets have no relevance, or can't have any, is wrong. I've pointed out that the muppet viral videos garnered more views than most all of the Mickey shorts. That alone shows they have relevance.

And when I’m drunk at a bar, I definitely play the Muppets singing Bohemian Rhapsody to troll on TouchTunes.

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

 

[erasure fan1]

I don't see how views on viral videos prove much of anything.

Of course you don't, because it doesn't support your argument. Yet you post everyone should read a random news article comment sections. But only the ones that support your side of it. I can do the eyeroll too.

"Exceeded its budget by the reported cost of the franchise"? Uh huh. Did you factor marketing into that budget? My guess is no.

I sure did. That is why I said plus commercials, merchandise... The budget was 80mil, and I doubt marketing was that high. So even if it's half, the movie still clears about 50mil. The franchise cost 75 so to thik they haven’t made up 25 is foolish. I'm not sure you know how licensing works. But Disney does nothing except cash the check. So they've done a lot of years of cashing checks.

 

[brb1006]

View attachment 451227

I'm already curious to see how the thread for "Soul" and "Raya and the Lost Dragon" will turn out later this year.

 

[General Mayhem]

Jesus Christ I wish he would be cursed to become a Muppet for all eternity and shut up.

 

[General Mayhem]

That would be pretty darn hilarious. Especially the walking on water bit. He could even ad-lib a "Wakka-wakka" in the stylings of Fozzy Bear during the sermon on the mount.

Wait... I may have misread what you meant.

When I first read this I was so confused haha

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Disney tried to revive them - gave them a YouTube platform, two movies, and two TV shows. And Disney, according to reports, let the people behind the characters do what they wanted without much interference. (Do you really think it was Disney's idea to have the puppets say curse words on network television?) Result: pretty much a fail.

I never said Disney didn't try to revive them, and they have had some successful attempts like the Muppets (2011), the aforementioned Youtube channel, and the successful (so far) Muppet Babies reboot.
But there have also been the numerous pitfalls along the way that could've been managed much better such as how Disney during their first 7 years of owning the Muppets barely tried to keep or thinking people wanted a knockoff Office with the Muppets.

Just what else could Disney do to revive them?

In the short term right now? Not much, really Disney's best bet is to rebuild good will with these smaller projects before they can do something risky with the Muppets Ip again.
Years ago? I think a Muppet Show revival should've been green lit immediately the second Disney officially owned the assets with a 3 year development cycle. It's what Viacom did with TMNT (successfully) they bought that and what they're planning to do with Garfield.

but nonetheless there is already plenty of puppet entertainment for you to watch to your heart's content. Why on earth do you need more?

I know you assume everyone who dares disagree is a "Muppet cultists", but I'm barely a casual Muppet fan, I don't really care about the IP's future. But, that doesn't mean I can't think that Disney has mishandled the IP. "Saint" Bob Iger isn't some "perfect business man who did all he could to save the Muppets, and his only flaw being that he realized that there was no way to save them."

Anyway, I would imagine for those who really want more Muppets (NOW!), it's their unique sense of humor, the performances of the puppeteers bringing the creatures alive, and the memorable personalities of most of the characters.

And couldn't the same "there's plenty of it out there" argument apply to traditional 2D animation as well? There's literally thousands of hand drawn animated films out there and there's still plenty being made right now. I want to see a new traditionally 2D animated feature again from Disney, much more than I want a new Muppets movie, but there's no shortage of content using that medium.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Yes, Muppet merch is so profitable that 2/3rds of the store in WDW that was dedicated to them is full of Mickey stuff. Because THAT sells.

Disney over time makes every merch store more and more generic.

For example, Buena Vista Street at opening, most of the stores had themed merchandise that were exclusive to Buena Vista Street. Now, it's the same generic things that you can buy anywhere else at the Resort. Fairly recently, I checked out Oswald's to see what Oswald merch. they had and 90% of the store was jus the same stuff you find anywhere else.

And even when the merch stays franchise specific in an area throughout all its shops, they tend to sell the same things in every store. I remember when Radiator Springs Curious had Route 66 themed items for sale, now its the same stuff you can find in any store in Car's Land.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Disney over time makes every merch store more and more generic.

For example, Buena Vista Street at opening, most of the stores had themed merchandise that were exclusive to Buena Vista Street. Now, it's the same generic things that you can buy anywhere else at the Resort. Fairly recently, I checked out Oswald's to see what Oswald merch. they had and 90% of the store was jus the same stuff you find anywhere else.

And even when the merch stays franchise specific in an area throughout all its shops, they tend to sell the same things in every store. I remember when Radiator Springs Curious had Route 66 themed items for sale, now its the same stuff you can find in any store in Car's Land.

Disney offers what SELLS in their merch stores. Period. The Muppets had a dedicated merch store to themselves, and the stuff sold so poorly that Mickey moved in. As for Oswald, of COURSE the character doesn't sell much. People barely know who he is. Disney hasn't given him two movies and two TV shows and a YouTube presence like, oh, I don't know, a bunch of non-Disney puppet characters I could mention...

 

[MisterPenguin]

Disney offers what SELLS in their merch stores. Period. The Muppets had a dedicated merch store to themselves, and the stuff sold so poorly that Mickey moved in. As for Oswald, of COURSE the character doesn't sell much. People barely know who he is. Disney hasn't given him two movies and two TV shows and a YouTube presence like, oh, I don't know, a bunch of non-Disney puppet characters I could mention...

Did someone say Muppets merch?

New Muppets Apparel Collection Rocks! | TouringPlans.com Blog

Ah, The Muppets. The character franchise Disney can never seem to figure out exactly what to do with. But if there's one

touringplans.com

 

[Magenta Panther]

Did someone say Muppets merch?

New Muppets Apparel Collection Rocks! | TouringPlans.com Blog

Ah, The Muppets. The character franchise Disney can never seem to figure out exactly what to do with. But if there's one

touringplans.com

Wow, a couple of new Muppet shirts. What's that, the first in like 5 years?

 

[Magenta Panther]

Of course you don't, because it doesn't support your argument. Yet you post everyone should read a random news article comment sections. But only the ones that support your side of it. I can do the eyeroll too.

I sure did. That is why I said plus commercials, merchandise... The budget was 80mil, and I doubt marketing was that high. So even if it's half, the movie still clears about 50mil. The franchise cost 75 so to thik they haven’t made up 25 is foolish. I'm not sure you know how licensing works. But Disney does nothing except cash the check. So they've done a lot of years of cashing checks.

You "doubt" marketing was that high. Uh huh. Nice dodge, though.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Wow, a couple of new Muppet shirts. What's that, the first in like 5 years?

Glad you're excited to see it!!

 

[Me 'Earties]

 

[erasure fan1]

You "doubt" marketing was that high. Uh huh. Nice dodge, though.

Estimated marketing budgets are half of the production budget. So even if it's that, the movie still profited 2/3rds the cost of the franchise, not including home video or TV rights. So I'm not dodging anything. No one really knows what the actual number is but Disney. But I forgot, I'm talking to Mr king of hard facts when it comes to the muppets.

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

 

[NateD1226]

Disney announces first official LGBTQ character in an animated feature

The character will be voiced by actress and screenwriter Lena Waithe.

www.today.com