PICTURE: Casey Splash n Soak Open

[Gregoryp73]

No. I'll stop complaining when we get something of this quality at WDW:

It is insulting to me for Disney to try and make a big deal out of this cheap, moderately-themed spray park when the above opens the same day across the country. TWDC needs to stop playing games in Florida.

I cannot wait to see this in 6 months...I've never been to DLR, so it will be nice to finally grasp the comparison.

 

[Condorman]

No. I'll stop complaining when we get something of this quality at WDW:

It is insulting to me for Disney to try and make a big deal out of this cheap, moderately-themed spray park when the above opens the same day across the country. TWDC needs to stop playing games in Florida.

What are you, like, nine years old? "No, I'll stop complaining..." Geez. Did it ever occur to you that that's it for Anaheim? That they spent the $1.5b on DCA and there's no more room for expansion? That this was it for them for the next 10-15 years? Did you ever consider that WDW has 40 square miles, four parks, 60k employees, enough attractions, rides and shows for three weeks of family entertainment? No, that would never occur to a nine year old. WDW is announcing new projects all the time, but you're of the Universal mindset that thinks Disney has an obligation to build a new e-ticket in every available corner of every park every six months. If that's what you feel, you don't know the first thing about Disney. But I'll bet you know all about Justin Beiber.

 

[bunnyman]

No. I'll stop complaining when we get something of this quality at WDW:

It is insulting to me for Disney to try and make a big deal out of this cheap, moderately-themed spray park when the above opens the same day across the country. TWDC needs to stop playing games in Florida.

Ah, Test Track?

 

[threeyoda]

No. I'll stop complaining when we get something of this quality at WDW:

It is insulting to me for Disney to try and make a big deal out of this cheap, moderately-themed spray park when the above opens the same day across the country. TWDC needs to stop playing games in Florida.

You do realize that that is a complete and full expansion in a park that desperately needed it, and the "spray park" is one part of a much larger and very detailed expansion in a park that did not need one nearly as much. Most of Magic Kingdom's expansion is still unopened. Wait until everything is open and operational before complaining.

Also, not everything has to be matched. Like Condorman said, Disney World has four theme parks, two water parks, and over two dozen hotels. Disneyland has two park and three hotels. We have much, much, much more here in Florida, and while that may lead to some maintenance issues compared to the much smaller Disneyland, its nice to see California getting this big of an expansion, and one that's this nice. It's not all about Disney World.

And to everyone complaining about this Casey Jr. area, its a nice thing that kids will enjoy a lot, especially on hot and humid summer days. Any water play area like this is greatly appreciated, and even if you don't like or appreciate it, kids do. Little areas like this that are very detailed are what sets Disney apart from other parks. They little tracks going from the roundtable to the real tracks and the roundhouse, the years on each of the train cars, the blinking eyes on the train engine. It all just makes it more "magical", and if not for you, for little ones.

I will say this, I think the fence looks out of place, but I'll withhold judgement until I find out what it's for. If its to control access to the train engine, then it makes sense, even if it doesn't look good. But if its to restrict access, hopefully its just temporary until they seal up the engine somehow.

 

[bubbles1812]

What are you, like, nine years old? "No, I'll stop complaining..." Geez. Did it ever occur to you that that's it for Anaheim? That they spent the $1.5b on DCA and there's no more room for expansion? That this was it for them for the next 10-15 years? Did you ever consider that WDW has 40 square miles, four parks, 60k employees, enough attractions, rides and shows for three weeks of family entertainment? No, that would never occur to a nine year old. WDW is announcing new projects all the time, but you're of the Universal mindset that thinks Disney has an obligation to build a new e-ticket in every available corner of every park every six months. If that's what you feel, you don't know the first thing about Disney. But I'll bet you know all about Justin Beiber.

Except that isn't true. Look at the Universal article thread. Martin and Lee have confirmed that there are more things (E-ticket type things) being fast tracked through imagineering there in order to combat Potter before it arrives in California. The management there has seen the impact Potter has had in Florida and they are acting smartly by being pro-active. I have yet to see TDO be pro-active or even that active at all. Yes NFE is going to be nice. Of course it is going to be nice. And I'll enjoy it. But they are not adding E ticket rides and attractions. They are adding a restaurant that will sell generic food, and two attractions that are at best B tickets. The Mine Train is going to be much closer to what Barnstormer is than what Everest is. And the Little Mermaid...it looks nice and I love TLM but they better hope that it's popularity isn't what it's like Cali... And the Dumbo area...I think it looks cute, truly I do, but in summary they are adding a second Dumbo spinner and a few tents where you can buy the same stuff you can get elsewhere in the parks. But they aren't adding anything on the scale of Potter, which is IMO, something the parks need, and I don't even care about the location of which park it would be in. I'd say Avatar could have been this but we are already hearing its being scaled back.

I don't think he was demanding new e-tickets every 6 months like you suggested. That's not reasonable at all and I don't think anyone here is stupid enough to demand that. He was just asking more be done than what WDW is offering. Yes the play area is one small part of an expansion but the expansion doesn't really push the boundaries of creativity. Kiddie roller coasters and dark rides (with exception of Pan) are not major E-tickets. MK hasn't had a major E-ticket ride added in 20+ years. That is a long time.

So far the new projects after NFE for WDW include a new potential new DVC hotel, and enhancement of DTD and Avatar Land...and even that is again, being scaled back dramatically. It may not get built at all. And if our insiders are to be trusted (I believe they are), there are no new major projects coming down the pipeline besides those three.

 

[coolbeans14]

but the numbers haven't been effected enough to cause a serious dent in WDW profits. when that happens, then there is reason for them to do so.

Also, avatarland takes us up to 2016. in the next four years they may decide to begin a new project. but, they'll leave some time. hey, perhaps in 2019 carsland will appear in the studios. but its just too early to tell.

 

[threeyoda]

Except that isn't true. Look at the Universal article thread. Martin and Lee have confirmed that there are more things (E-ticket type things) being fast tracked through imagineering there in order to combat Potter before it arrives in California. The management there has seen the impact Potter has had in Florida and they are acting smartly by being pro-active. I have yet to see TDO be pro-active or even that active at all. Yes NFE is going to be nice. Of course it is going to be nice. And I'll enjoy it. But they are not adding E ticket rides and attractions. They are adding a restaurant that will sell generic food, and two attractions that are at best B tickets. The Mine Train is going to be much closer to what Barnstormer is than what Everest is. And the Little Mermaid...it looks nice and I love TLM but they better hope that it's popularity isn't what it's like Cali... And the Dumbo area...I think it looks cute, truly I do, but in summary they are adding a second Dumbo spinner and a few tents where you can buy the same stuff you can get elsewhere in the parks. But they aren't adding anything on the scale of Potter, which is IMO, something the parks need, and I don't even care about the location of which park it would be in. I'd say Avatar could have been this but we are already hearing its being scaled back.

I don't think he was demanding new e-tickets every 6 months like you suggested. That's not reasonable at all and I don't think anyone here is stupid enough to demand that. He was just asking more be done than what WDW is offering. Yes the play area is one small part of an expansion but the expansion doesn't really push the boundaries of creativity. Kiddie roller coasters and dark rides (with exception of Pan) are not major E-tickets. MK hasn't had a major E-ticket ride added in 20+ years. That is a long time.

So far the new projects after NFE for WDW include a new potential new DVC hotel, and enhancement of DTD and Avatar Land...and even that is again, being scaled back dramatically. It may not get built at all. And if our insiders are to be trusted (I believe they are), there are no new major projects coming down the pipeline besides those three.

I believe, and I may be wrong, but from what I can see Orlando is a completely different market than Anaheim. When people come to Orlando, they visit Disney, Universal, and sometimes SeaWorld. The majority of the people visiting these parks are coming from out of the area or internationally. So even when Universal built Potter, Disney still was able to keep going due to most people visiting both parks on their trips. That is why you saw SeaWorld open Manta right before Potter opened, because if anyone, SeaWorld was looking to get hurt the most by it's opening. And now with Potter 2.0, SeaWorld is adding Turtle Trek and Antartica. For most people, Disney World holds a special place in their heart, and has a "feeling" when their there that Universal and SeaWorld will never be able to match or replicate.

In Los Angeles, people around the world don't go to Disneyland nearly as much as Disney World. Disneyland has to cater to a much larger local market when compared to out of area or international market. So Potter in Universal Hollywood would hurt Disneyland much more than Poter in Orlando hurt Disney World. Uni Hollywood and Disneyland are competing for the same people, while Uni Orlando and Disney World share the people. And while that may cut into Disney's profits for a day, its not losing them visitors. And while some people on here say there not visiting Disney anymore, there's still 17 million other people going to Magic Kingdom each year.

I went down with my High School band in April, and walking past the construction walls, everyone was taking pictures and talking and going on about how cool it was gonna be and how they need to come back. So while it may just be a dark ride from California, a new roller coaster, and a new fancy restaurant, to the average visitor (which is most of that 17 million), it's an exciting new addition to the park. The average visitor does not expect to have something new every time they go. They expect a fun trip to a place that they love, and like someone earlier said, they may only go once every two or three years, so they're not expecting something new, but anything new is an added bonus.

So to sum up, from what I've read and seen, Disneyland would have hurt much more from Potter in Hollywood than Disney World did from Potter in Orlando due to the different markets that each park caters to.

Just to add in - No one saw AvatarLand coming, that was a complete surprise to everyone. Nothing about AvatarLand being scaled back has been announced, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just unfounded "fanboy" rumors, as is AvatarLand being cancelled.

Another added random thought - Tons of people where I live (New Jersey), many diehard Harry Potter fans, don't even realize Potterland is part of Universal. They think it is it's own separate theme park, and some think its actually part of Disney. They'll make a weeklong vacation to Disney World, and designate a day for Potter. Most that I know don't explore the rest of Universal, its just in - Potter - back out and back to Disney.

 

[Condorman]

WDW's least attended park in 2011 was DHS @ 9.7m whereas IoA -- where TWWOHP is located -- saw 7.7m in 2011. Why should Disney have to play "catch up" or spend another $1b on anything when they're already in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place? I would love new lands and resorts all the time, but some people only see the world from their basement-dwelling-armchair-Imagineer-fanboy viewpoint and not the logistical reality of running a corporation. WDW is the #1 tourist destination in the world. It's not perfect, but it's better than most. They are constantly updating and renovating though it's hard to notice given it's enormity. Never compare WDW to any other park or parks in the world. WDW wins. It wins hands down. The attendance numbers prove it.

 

[bubbles1812]

WDW's least attended park in 2011 was DHS @ 9.7m whereas IoA -- where TWWOHP is located -- saw 7.7m in 2011. Why should Disney have to play "catch up" or spend another $1b on anything when they're already in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place? I would love new lands and resorts all the time, but some people only see the world from their basement-dwelling-armchair-Imagineer-fanboy viewpoint and not the logistical reality of running a corporation. WDW is the #1 tourist destination in the world. It's not perfect, but it's better than most. They are constantly updating and renovating though it's hard to notice given it's enormity. Never compare WDW to any other park or parks in the world. WDW wins. It wins hands down. The attendance numbers prove it.

Sigh. Of course the attendance numbers are going to be bigger. The have more capacity. Plain and simple as that. But total attendance numbers do not matter when it comes to comparing theme parks. They don't at all. It's all about % increase in the number of guests you see per year and the amount of revenue you steal from the competition. Universal has see a 30% increase in attendance...Disney, maybe barely 1% but really it has bee stagnant over the past few years. If that trend continues, while I don't think MK could ever be overtaken (not to mention it's literally impossible since the capacity of MK is bigger than IoA/Uni) I certainly can see Uni overtaking at least DHS and maybe AK too eventually. There isn't that great a difference between 9.7 and 7.7 million and with the advent of Potter 2.0, they could certainly do it.

I am not a "basement-dwelling-armchair-Imagineer-fanboy." I recognize that that Disney is a corporation and there is a limited amount of money that can be spent. I won't even argue that the are usually renovating things (though the big things that need renovating, the ones that really need it like Splash, Tomorrowland, ect continue to sit). But that is a very silly statement you made about how people should never compare WDW to other parks...you just comes off as very naive or as you so lovingly put it, the "basement-dwelling-armchair-Imagineer-fanboy" with his head in the sand, refusing to see that there are problems at Disney. That door swing both ways. I'm not saying WDW isn't better than many/most vacation spots. I love it, enjoy it. But it's pretty much a rule of business that if your competition starts offering an improved product closer to what you offer (and I'm not just talking about Universal), you need to make your product that much desirable. Your competition makes major new offerings, you need to do that too to stay ahead of the game.

 

[bubbles1812]

I believe, and I may be wrong, but from what I can see Orlando is a completely different market than Anaheim. When people come to Orlando, they visit Disney, Universal, and sometimes SeaWorld. The majority of the people visiting these parks are coming from out of the area or internationally. So even when Universal built Potter, Disney still was able to keep going due to most people visiting both parks on their trips. That is why you saw SeaWorld open Manta right before Potter opened, because if anyone, SeaWorld was looking to get hurt the most by it's opening. And now with Potter 2.0, SeaWorld is adding Turtle Trek and Antartica. For most people, Disney World holds a special place in their heart, and has a "feeling" when their there that Universal and SeaWorld will never be able to match or replicate.

In Los Angeles, people around the world don't go to Disneyland nearly as much as Disney World. Disneyland has to cater to a much larger local market when compared to out of area or international market. So Potter in Universal Hollywood would hurt Disneyland much more than Poter in Orlando hurt Disney World. Uni Hollywood and Disneyland are competing for the same people, while Uni Orlando and Disney World share the people. And while that may cut into Disney's profits for a day, its not losing them visitors. And while some people on here say there not visiting Disney anymore, there's still 17 million other people going to Magic Kingdom each year.

Disney does hold a special place in many peoples' heart. I wouldn't be on this board if I hadn't felt that feeling. And I agree you have some a point about Orlando being a different market/different visitor set. And yes people keep going to Disney. Of course they do. But if more and more people are taking time away from Disney for those other places, that is lost revenue for Disney....and that adds up. And that is also lost "memory making" time for Disney where they can groom people to get that special feeling. I'm not sure many of today's kids are getting so entrenched in the nostalgia as they used to. And it's still no excuse for TDO not making a "Potter Swatter" or whatever people call it. Especially given we know they are freaked out by Universal's success.

I went down with my High School band in April, and walking past the construction walls, everyone was taking pictures and talking and going on about how cool it was gonna be and how they need to come back. So while it may just be a dark ride from California, a new roller coaster, and a new fancy restaurant, to the average visitor (which is most of that 17 million), it's an exciting new addition to the park. The average visitor does not expect to have something new every time they go. They expect a fun trip to a place that they love, and like someone earlier said, they may only go once every two or three years, so they're not expecting something new, but anything new is an added bonus.

I was never arguing average visitors won't find it exciting. I said I expect it to be nice and I'm sure that I'll enjoy it. But it's not as much as I know Disney could do. Do you know that the original plan was to pretty much rehab all of Fantasy Land for around $800 million? It would have been amazing but as TDO are want to do, they scaled it back. That would have "wowed" me. While the average visitor doesn't notice the problems in the park, eventually if they aren't addressed, even the average visitor will notice. And if the competition continues to make new big offerings, that increases the chance that more and more people will be drawn away from Disney so that they don't just lose one day, now they are losing two days, three days, ect, to the point Disney could lose a visitor (though I will give you that may be an extreme case).
So to sum up, from what I've read and seen, Disneyland would have hurt much more from Potter in Hollywood than Disney World did from Potter in Orlando due to the different markets that each park caters to.

Just to add in - No one saw AvatarLand coming, that was a complete surprise to everyone. Nothing about AvatarLand being scaled back has been announced, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just unfounded "fanboy" rumors, as is AvatarLand being cancelled.

Of course no one saw Avatar Land coming. That deal was made as a direct result of Potter. It wasn't in the works at all before Potter And I will correct you...they aren't just "fanboy" rumors made up by people not connected to Disney. They are made by Lee, Martin, 74'...posters who have well established connections within Disney who actually have insight in the what is going on internally. If say you or I or JT had made a statement like that at some point, then no, of course I wouldn't take that seriously. But the posters who have stated it are well respected with well known connections. [/quote]

Another added random thought - Tons of people where I live (New Jersey), many diehard Harry Potter fans, don't even realize Potterland is part of Universal. They think it is it's own separate theme park, and some think its actually part of Disney. They'll make a weeklong vacation to Disney World, and designate a day for Potter. Most that I know don't explore the rest of Universal, its just in - Potter - back out and back to Disney.

They may not originally realize that Potter is apart of Universal but that doesn't actually stop them from learning where it is and spending time there. The people who actually think it is a part of Disney are pretty silly or just don't watch the news. It's hard for me to believe people spend $95 dollars just to go to Potter for the day...I love Potter but even I wouldn't say spending that much money to go to one land in one park is worth it. Though I would say the same about Disney. But I trust you tell the truth about your experiences and respect it. Though that still means Uni had people in their parks that would have otherwise not been there at all. And even if just a few stay and give Uni longer time than just say a half day, heck if they just get that half day, again, that is time Uni can impress guests and make them take a mental note to see what Uni or any of the other theme parks is offering on the next visit.

 

[Jim Handy]

What are you, like, nine years old? "No, I'll stop complaining..." Geez. Did it ever occur to you that that's it for Anaheim? That they spent the $1.5b on DCA and there's no more room for expansion? That this was it for them for the next 10-15 years? Did you ever consider that WDW has 40 square miles, four parks, 60k employees, enough attractions, rides and shows for three weeks of family entertainment? No, that would never occur to a nine year old. WDW is announcing new projects all the time, but you're of the Universal mindset that thinks Disney has an obligation to build a new e-ticket in every available corner of every park every six months. If that's what you feel, you don't know the first thing about Disney. But I'll bet you know all about Justin Beiber.

That's it for Anaheim? Yeah...ok....

WDW has all that land. Great. But less and less of that is available for entertainment for you and me. Between 1% communities, shopping centers and DVC, it is being rapidly built out. And the land that is available in the current parks? Very little on the horizon.

WDW has been on a steady decline in attraction development in the past decade. The resort can support the pace of development needed to keep everything fresh, but they don't.

 

[coolbeans14]

Sigh. Of course the attendance numbers are going to be bigger. The have more capacity. Plain and simple as that. But total attendance numbers do not matter when it comes to comparing theme parks. They don't at all. It's all about % increase in the number of guests you see per year and the amount of revenue you steal from the competition. Universal has see a 30% increase in attendance...Disney, maybe barely 1% but really it has bee stagnant over the past few years. If that trend continues, while I don't think MK could ever be overtaken (not to mention it's literally impossible since the capacity of MK is bigger than IoA/Uni) I certainly can see Uni overtaking at least DHS and maybe AK too eventually. There isn't that great a difference between 9.7 and 7.7 million and with the advent of Potter 2.0, they could certainly do it.

the problem I have with this though, is that 2 million actually is a lot, especially when you consider that potter 2.0 is in a different park. If they market it as being the london area, half the people will go here, and half to IOA. sure, potter 2.0 allows park to park access, but its the first park you enter that counts, so it just does not work. UNI figures may go up, but not by 2 million to the park that doesn't have the new thing. literally the only way UNI could overtake a Disney park is if they combined the 2 parks into one. But they won't do that, because then they can't charge you extra for multi-park access, their hotels become worse value, only on the doorstep of one park.

there is also the fact that clearly all the results show us that while both companies continue to get higher figures, who does it without trying? UNI had to open a new land, but what did disney do last year? Star tours, and that was found to be no real extra draw.Let's face it, Disney will continue to grow and won't need to try hard. If anyone is going to be playing catch up, it will always be UNI.

 

[bubbles1812]

the problem I have with this though, is that 2 million actually is a lot, especially when you consider that potter 2.0 is in a different park. If they market it as being the london area, half the people will go here, and half to IOA. sure, potter 2.0 allows park to park access, but its the first park you enter that counts, so it just does not work. UNI figures may go up, but not by 2 million to the park that doesn't have the new thing. literally the only way UNI could overtake a Disney park is if they combined the 2 parks into one. But they won't do that, because then they can't charge you extra for multi-park access, their hotels become worse value, only on the doorstep of one park.

there is also the fact that clearly all the results show us that while both companies continue to get higher figures, who does it without trying? UNI had to open a new land, but what did disney do last year? Star tours, and that was found to be no real extra draw.Let's face it, Disney will continue to grow and won't need to try hard. If anyone is going to be playing catch up, it will always be UNI.

Your argument would hold more water if "both companies continue to get higher figures" held true. Sure they've increased revenue, but Disney has not really grown attendance wise. A 1% growth is not great. Park attendance has basically remained the same, not just last year, but for the past several. They can't just continue to keep upping the prices forever to increase revenue. You can't suck your customer base so dry that it becomes impossible for them to afford to come back or even to make an original trip to begin with True, the same can be said of Universal but Universal doesn't require you booking at least a week to make the trip even remotely cost effective.

If Universal was going to just stop with Potter 2.0, I'd say there was less of a chance of them eventually overtaking DHS/AK. But they aren't...again look at the Universal thread. There are more things in development than just Potter 2.0 coming down the pipe line. If Disney doesn't "try hard" and rather keeps satisfied with the status quo, eventually Uni will pull much closer as will other competitors. Resting on your laurels is not a way to run a business, especially one where customer loyalty matters so much. And honestly, even beyond that, are you really satisfied with Disney not trying hard just, if your statement actually held true, because they can?They used to be a company that would improve just for the sake of improving things, because they wanted to plus the customer experience so much. They always stayed ahead because they took a pro active stance. Now they are mainly just reactive.

 

[threeyoda]

Disney does hold a special place in many peoples' heart. I wouldn't be on this board if I hadn't felt that feeling. And I agree you have some a point about Orlando being a different market/different visitor set. And yes people keep going to Disney. Of course they do. But if more and more people are taking time away from Disney for those other places, that is lost revenue for Disney....and that adds up. And that is also lost "memory making" time for Disney where they can groom people to get that special feeling. I'm not sure many of today's kids are getting so entrenched in the nostalgia as they used to. And it's still no excuse for TDO not making a "Potter Swatter" or whatever people call it. Especially given we know they are freaked out by Universal's success.

I agree that Disney is losing revenue due to one day trips to Potter, but from friends and other people I know that have gone to Uni for Potter, they have said it was cool to see and nice, but they wouldn't go back, mainly due to the cramped crowds and the hassle getting there from Disney. Only one or two die hard Harry Potter fans said they would go back, but no one liked it more than Disney. I do agree though, eventually they will need to build a "Potter Swatter", but they seem to be doing alright right now. The need for a Potter Swatter is not as great as it was in Disneyland from what I see and have heard.

I was never arguing average visitors won't find it exciting. I said I expect it to be nice and I'm sure that I'll enjoy it. But it's not as much as I know Disney could do. Do you know that the original plan was to pretty much rehab all of Fantasy Land for around $800 million? It would have been amazing but as TDO are want to do, they scaled it back. That would have "wowed" me. While the average visitor doesn't notice the problems in the park, eventually if they aren't addressed, even the average visitor will notice. And if the competition continues to make new big offerings, that increases the chance that more and more people will be drawn away from Disney so that they don't just lose one day, now they are losing two days, three days, ect, to the point Disney could lose a visitor (though I will give you that may be an extreme case).

I did not know that original plan for Fantasyland. That would have been really nice. Did that money to redo the rest of Fantasyland get switched over to Storybook Circus and the new path by Haunted Mansion, or were those two things included in the original plan?

And yes, the average visitor doesn't notice current problems such as lightbulbs out and animatronics not working. They don't visit enough to notice something like that. If it does get much worse, I could see an average visitor noticing, but I don't see it getting that bad.

If the competition does keep adding things, it could get to the point where Disney starts losing more days, but Uni is basically built out. Looking at Google Maps will show you that. That's why Potter 2.0 is being put where Jaws was, there's no space else to build it. Each of the parks in Disney still has ample space to expand, even if Hollywood Studios would require removal of the Backlot tour or toll plaza. Universal is blocked in by condos and houses on three sides, and the lake, CityWalk, the hotels, and parking on the fourth

Of course no one saw Avatar Land coming. That deal was made as a direct result of Potter. It wasn't in the works at all before Potter And I will correct you...they aren't just "fanboy" rumors made up by people not connected to Disney. They are made by Lee, Martin, 74'...posters who have well established connections within Disney who actually have insight in the what is going on internally. If say you or I or JT had made a statement like that at some point, then no, of course I wouldn't take that seriously. But the posters who have stated it are well respected with well known connections.

Ok, I didn't know they were the ones making those statements. So if Lee, Martin, and 74' didn't hear of Avatar Land coming, then how are they hearing of its scaling back and/or cancellation? Don't get me wrong, I know about there established connections a generally listen and take interest in everything they have to say about Disney. I just wonder that if Disney managed to hide all negotiations and announcement plans of Avatar Land, then I would assume that any scaling back or cancellation would be just as hidden. Maybe not though, I have absolutely no idea how things like that work!

They may not originally realize that Potter is apart of Universal but that doesn't actually stop them from learning where it is and spending time there. The people who actually think it is a part of Disney are pretty silly or just don't watch the news. It's hard for me to believe people spend $95 dollars just to go to Potter for the day...I love Potter but even I wouldn't say spending that much money to go to one land in one park is worth it. Though I would say the same about Disney. But I trust you tell the truth about your experiences and respect it. Though that still means Uni had people in their parks that would have otherwise not been there at all. And even if just a few stay and give Uni longer time than just say a half day, heck if they just get that half day, again, that is time Uni can impress guests and make them take a mental note to see what Uni or any of the other theme parks is offering on the next visit.

That is true, they'll eventually find out where it is. And it's not so silly to not know where it is, when I went down with my band one of my best friends was like "Hey look, there's Disney!" as he saw Hogwarts from the highway driving down. He also thought Disney was just Magic Kingdom a few weeks before that, so maybe then he just assumed everything was Disney hahaha. And yes, people actually do go to Universal just for Potter. Some do visit the whole park, but they only go for Potter. People say "I'm going to Disney World" or "I'm going to Disney" when going to Disney World. But when going to Universal, they say "I'm going to Harry Potter Land". And like I said before, most go to Potter once, say it was cool, and then add "but it was really small and cramped, I'm not going back.

 

[bubbles1812]

I agree that Disney is losing revenue due to one day trips to Potter, but from friends and other people I know that have gone to Uni for Potter, they have said it was cool to see and nice, but they wouldn't go back, mainly due to the cramped crowds and the hassle getting there from Disney. Only one or two die hard Harry Potter fans said they would go back, but no one liked it more than Disney. I do agree though, eventually they will need to build a "Potter Swatter", but they seem to be doing alright right now. The need for a Potter Swatter is not as great as it was in Disneyland from what I see and have heard.

I guess you and I have had different experiences (which, is entirely possible). Most people I know have said they want to make a return to Universal. And are your friends truly going to be unwilling to give Universal another try when Potter 2.0 is completed + the other offerings Universal has in the works? And I will give you that Potter is fairly cramped...Universal needs better crowd control though I suspect some of it will be rectified via the But again I make the point, even if it is a hassle to get there from Disney, more and more people are taking the trip. They are doing alright right now, sorry if my post came across to seem like I didn't think that...but they are losing revenue and as you agreed, eventually there hand is going to be forced into building something truly great/boundary breaking (or at least that is my dear hope). Disney's competition seems to be gunning for them (I'm not just referring to Uni) and I wish Disney would just take a pro active stance.

I did not know that original plan for Fantasyland. That would have been really nice. Did that money to redo the rest of Fantasyland get switched over to Storybook Circus and the new path by Haunted Mansion, or were those two things included in the original plan?

I am not actually sure about that. I'm guessing at least Storybook Circus was included in the original plan though I'm not sure about Haunted Mansion. That's where I get really frustrated...they had something amazing drawn up, and then scaled back by about 500 million dollars. And they had the money to do it, but it instead all goes back to quarterly profits and pleasing stock holders.

And yes, the average visitor doesn't notice current problems such as lightbulbs out and animatronics not working. They don't visit enough to notice something like that. If it does get much worse, I could see an average visitor noticing, but I don't see it getting that bad.

I hope it doesn't get as bad as that, I really don't. I do actually love WDW. But I've seen a steady decline. Right down to say how they used to offer package delivery to your room and now its only to the general store. Its not a big thing in the grand scheme of things but little things tend to add up. One animatronic on Splash Mountain not working is that big of a deal but the more effects that don't work (and it seems to become more and more with each passing month), the more likely average visitors will notice. I've been on it with several casual fans when the majority of the things on the boat at the end was not working. And they even made comments on it. I wish I could have told them that's not usually how it is but that happens more often than not.

If the competition does keep adding things, it could get to the point where Disney starts losing more days, but Uni is basically built out. Looking at Google Maps will show you that. That's why Potter 2.0 is being put where Jaws was, there's no space else to build it. Each of the parks in Disney still has ample space to expand, even if Hollywood Studios would require removal of the Backlot tour or toll plaza. Universal is blocked in by condos and houses on three sides, and the lake, CityWalk, the hotels, and parking on the fourth

I will agree that Uni is strapped for land. I would never argue against that. They do have a bit of land (parking lot type space...sorry I would have to look at the actual maps...whylightbulb talked about it once). If they continue to make money, I could eventually see them trying to buy out the condos/houses...that would be extremely expensive and the Universal before Potter would have never been able to attempt it. But that's farther, way farther down the line and just my speculation. If they really want it, they'll pay for it though...look at the rights to Potter. And at least they only take out things mostly because they have to. Did Snow White's Scary Adventures really have to go? No, it didn't. I think they have the land for both. But instead they took it out even though they have the land. Or when they closed the Wonders of Life Pavilion...instead of leaving it to just rot, they could have put in new attractions and totally revamped the place.

Ok, I didn't know they were the ones making those statements. So if Lee, Martin, and 74' didn't hear of Avatar Land coming, then how are they hearing of its scaling back and/or cancellation? Don't get me wrong, I know about there established connections a generally listen and take interest in everything they have to say about Disney. I just wonder that if Disney managed to hide all negotiations and announcement plans of Avatar Land, then I would assume that any scaling back or cancellation would be just as hidden. Maybe not though, I have absolutely no idea how things like that work!

I think the Avatar deal was made pretty darn fast...it wasn't so much about that they were hiding things. It just went through fast so people with connections to Disney and even within Disney found out about it about the same time it was announced. But now Avatar Land is an established project within WDW. Plans or lack of plans can't be hidden as easily. I'd trust those who said the project has been scaled back. Lee, Martin, ect all have been pretty reliable in the past.

That is true, they'll eventually find out where it is. And it's not so silly to not know where it is, when I went down with my band one of my best friends was like "Hey look, there's Disney!" as he saw Hogwarts from the highway driving down. He also thought Disney was just Magic Kingdom a few weeks before that, so maybe then he just assumed everything was Disney hahaha. And yes, people actually do go to Universal just for Potter. Some do visit the whole park, but they only go for Potter. People say "I'm going to Disney World" or "I'm going to Disney" when going to Disney World. But when going to Universal, they say "I'm going to Harry Potter Land". And like I said before, most go to Potter once, say it was cool, and then add "but it was really small and cramped, I'm not going back.

And I'm sorry, I wasn't disputing the fact that some do only go to Universal for Potter...a total waste of money IMO, but it's there money to spend. Though how you can walk past Hulk and not want to go on it is beyond me...but that is just me But still, they were there, they saw it, and I'm guessing for a lot of people, will at least remember what Universal does have to offer even if they chose not to experience it that time. The people who went just for Potter will probably go again when the second part opens. To echo your last statement...like I said, in my experience, most have told me (and even from what I've seen from many on this forum)would like to experience it again, especially as more of their projects come to life and say they will go back. Even if it means for a full day instead of a half day. That will add up into significant revenue loss eventually.

 

[Condorman]

Sigh. Of course the attendance numbers are going to be bigger. The have more capacity. Plain and simple as that. But total attendance numbers do not matter when it comes to comparing theme parks. They don't at all.

That's the lamest excuse I've ever heard. You're telling me that Disney does better numbers simply because their parks are larger? Uh, no. Universal's demographics are between 10 and 35. Disney's demographics are between 2 months and 92 years of age. Disney provides an experience for the entire family. Disney is a name brand recognized the world over for family entertainment that has no equal. You may not prefer them or like them or even like that fact, but Disney does better because it is a better product, not because their parks "can accommodate more people." By that reasoning, you're implying that all those extra millions of people really wanted to go to Universal, but it was packed, so they went to Disney instead. No. Nearly 50 million people a year converge on Orlando, specifically for WDW, not Universal. They may spend a day or two at USO or IoA, even SeaWorld, but they spend a week at WDW. I'm not taking anything away from other parks, but to that nine year-old who posted up above who won't stop complaining until WDW gets a Carsland, my question is when will DL get an Animal Kingdom or an Epcot? When will Universal get a third and fourth gate? They won't.

It's funny how people see what they want to, and not the reality of the situation.

 

[bubbles1812]

That's the lamest excuse I've ever heard. You're telling me that Disney does better numbers simply because their parks are larger? Uh, no. Universal's demographics are between 10 and 35. Disney's demographics are between 2 months and 92 years of age. Disney provides an experience for the entire family. Disney is a name brand recognized the world over for family entertainment that has no equal. You may not prefer them or like them or even like that fact, but Disney does better because it is a better product, not because their parks "can accommodate more people." By that reasoning, you're implying that all those extra millions of people really wanted to go to Universal, but it was packed, so they went to Disney instead. No. Nearly 50 million people a year converge on Orlando, specifically for WDW, not Universal. They may spend a day or two at USO or IoA, even SeaWorld, but they spend a week at WDW. I'm not taking anything away from other parks, but to that nine year-old who posted up above who won't stop complaining until WDW gets a Carsland, my question is when will DL get an Animal Kingdom or an Epcot? When will Universal get a third and fourth gate? They won't.

It's funny how people see what they want to, and not the reality of the situation.

You are a very clear Pixie Dust snorter so my points are probably not going to get through to you but I'm going to reply anyways...

1) Yes. The fact that they have larger capacity is a huge contributor to the fact that the have larger numbers. If Universal has the equivalent capacity, they would probably be on par with Disney attendance wise. Maybe a little less, I have no idea, it's just a hypothetical, but the fact remains that Disney can accommodate a heck of a lot more people.

2) Universal's demographics are growing. They are not just 10 to 35, especially with Potter... that series is not just loved by 10 to 35 year olds. And that section of the park is growing. My 53 year old father loves both Universal and Disney. I know many others in that same age range who love Universal as well as Disney. Your statement doesn't hold a lot of water

3) I actually do still like Disney more. In fact, I love it. And there are many many things I think it does well. I even think the Dumbo queue is cute and fine for the demographic it is geared towards. But! I just want it to be more than what it is rather than seeing it decline in quality. Disney is the better product as a whole..for now. But as I stated in my post to ThreeYoda, WDW for the most part is sitting on its heals and letting its competitors get closer to it.

4) They may spend only a day or two at Universal, Sea World, ect, but for many, that used to be time fully spent at WDW. A week and a half stay at WDW becomes a week and a few days at other places. A weeks stay becomes five days and a few days at other places. And it goes on. And its a pattern that is happening more and more. Again, lost revenue. That hurts Disney. One soda not spent at WDW times several million adds up into big bucks, as I said on another thread.

5) He can complain all he wants that WDW isn't getting Carsland. It's a beautiful area that should be praised. The main attraction is spectacular. Why wouldn't you want it here? That's really silly to say well we have Animal Kingdom so I don't want you to make improvements the like of which DCA is getting. In fact that doesn't make much sense at all. Animal Kingdom was built in 1998. It is old/old news at this point. Obviously not old in the sense of the MK or Epcot but old enough. NFE is a good addition but it's not a major addition in this sense that its adding any E-ticket attractions (and I don't necessarily mean rides). A kiddie roller coaster, however well themed, and a ride copied from California are not E-ticket attractions. The last time got one of those was over twenty years ago. It's due for something spectacular as are basically all the parts.

 

[RSoxNo1]

What are you, like, nine years old? "No, I'll stop complaining..." Geez. Did it ever occur to you that that's it for Anaheim? That they spent the $1.5b on DCA and there's no more room for expansion? That this was it for them for the next 10-15 years? Did you ever consider that WDW has 40 square miles, four parks, 60k employees, enough attractions, rides and shows for three weeks of family entertainment? No, that would never occur to a nine year old. WDW is announcing new projects all the time, but you're of the Universal mindset that thinks Disney has an obligation to build a new e-ticket in every available corner of every park every six months. If that's what you feel, you don't know the first thing about Disney. But I'll bet you know all about Justin Beiber.

Comparing Storybook Circus to Carsland is downright silly. Not every addition can be expected to be an E-ticket. I'm not mad that they're adding the Fantasyland expansion, and I really like what they're adding. However, it's not Carsland. Those that are pretending that they two are comparable are delusional. I could see a $1.2 billion investment in Florida whereby a couple of E-Tickets are added to the parks, but the bulk of the money is spent on necessary upkeep to beautify the parks. Tomorrowland could be completely redone, Hollywood Studios could use some cohesive theming, both Epcot and DHS could use some new C/D tickets in existing buildings, and maintenance issues could be addressed.

Looking at how the $1.2 billion was invested in DCA it wasn't all on new attractions. Much of it was spent improving areas that were decidedly un-Disney. At DCA, this wasn't a maintenance issue, but a theming issue. Thankfully, we have recently seen a freshening up of Main Street, but there are so many maintenance issues and seemingly incomplete attractions that need to be addressed as well. The problem is, that type of investment into the parks, appeases the fanboys but not without quantifiable additions as well. The way they handled DCA really worked because it allowed them to tie in smaller improvements in with larger additions.

It's why I think the way to sell something like fixing the Yeti would be to add additional components to the ride so it's not just fixing what's there, but fixing and improving upon what should be there.

WDW's least attended park in 2011 was DHS @ 9.7m whereas IoA -- where TWWOHP is located -- saw 7.7m in 2011. Why should Disney have to play "catch up" or spend another $1b on anything when they're already in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place? I would love new lands and resorts all the time, but some people only see the world from their basement-dwelling-armchair-Imagineer-fanboy viewpoint and not the logistical reality of running a corporation. WDW is the #1 tourist destination in the world. It's not perfect, but it's better than most. They are constantly updating and renovating though it's hard to notice given it's enormity. Never compare WDW to any other park or parks in the world. WDW wins. It wins hands down. The attendance numbers prove it.

Universal is being aggressive and it's paying off. While they haven't surpassed any attendance # of any Disney World park, their market share is at an all time high, as is the spending at their parks. Disney World has painted itself into a corner whereby the most significant recent investments have been purely DVC and Hotels. While needed, they are not the primary drivers of attendance or merchandise spending. Universal is succeeding by creating quality, high demand offerings (Harry Potter) and the corresponding merchandise.

Disneyland's suits have access to the numbers in Florida that TDO seems to be ignoring. There's a reason why they're not resting on their laurels with just the DCA 2.0 makeover. Yes, there's enough at Disneyland to keep people occupied, but they also see that remaining stagnant will hurt them.

but the numbers haven't been effected enough to cause a serious dent in WDW profits. when that happens, then there is reason for them to do so.

Also, avatarland takes us up to 2016. in the next four years they may decide to begin a new project. but, they'll leave some time. hey, perhaps in 2019 carsland will appear in the studios. but its just too early to tell.

Room discounts and generic merchandise create deceiving spending numbers. Universal's merchandise is far more desirable right now.

I agree that Disney is losing revenue due to one day trips to Potter, but from friends and other people I know that have gone to Uni for Potter, they have said it was cool to see and nice, but they wouldn't go back, mainly due to the cramped crowds and the hassle getting there from Disney. Only one or two die hard Harry Potter fans said they would go back, but no one liked it more than Disney. I do agree though, eventually they will need to build a "Potter Swatter", but they seem to be doing alright right now. The need for a Potter Swatter is not as great as it was in Disneyland from what I see and have heard.

I would guess this will be addressed during Phase 2. I also wouldn't be shocked to see a re-working of the Forbidden Journey queue when they can realistically take it down for a fee weeks. They simply need to relocate the lockers.

 

[threeyoda]

I guess you and I have had different experiences (which, is entirely possible). Most people I know have said they want to make a return to Universal. And are your friends truly going to be unwilling to give Universal another try when Potter 2.0 is completed + the other offerings Universal has in the works? And I will give you that Potter is fairly cramped...Universal needs better crowd control though I suspect some of it will be rectified via the But again I make the point, even if it is a hassle to get there from Disney, more and more people are taking the trip. They are doing alright right now, sorry if my post came across to seem like I didn't think that...but they are losing revenue and as you agreed, eventually there hand is going to be forced into building something truly great/boundary breaking (or at least that is my dear hope). Disney's competition seems to be gunning for them (I'm not just referring to Uni) and I wish Disney would just take a pro active stance.

Well since Potter 2.0 isn't public announced yet (or is it? I could be wrong), my friends don't know about it. I suppose that when its announced, they'll go back. It is true, more people are taking the trip to Universal. And I hope that that competition form Universal wil force them to do something. That other thread Tim_4 started ("Confirming Rumors") in the News & Rumors section seems to show that TDO already has realized something needs to be done, if what he posted is true. And I hope it is! If you haven't read it, I suggest you check it out, it's interesting, especially with Lee's, Martin's, Raven's, and 74's take on it.

I am not actually sure about that. I'm guessing at least Storybook Circus was included in the original plan though I'm not sure about Haunted Mansion. That's where I get really frustrated...they had something amazing drawn up, and then scaled back by about 500 million dollars. And they had the money to do it, but it instead all goes back to quarterly profits and pleasing stock holders.

That is upsetting, I'm sure it would've been really great to see all or Fantasyland done! But your right, it is all about quarterly profits and pleasing stockholders.

I hope it doesn't get as bad as that, I really don't. I do actually love WDW. But I've seen a steady decline. Right down to say how they used to offer package delivery to your room and now its only to the general store. Its not a big thing in the grand scheme of things but little things tend to add up. One animatronic on Splash Mountain not working is that big of a deal but the more effects that don't work (and it seems to become more and more with each passing month), the more likely average visitors will notice. I've been on it with several casual fans when the majority of the things on the boat at the end was not working. And they even made comments on it. I wish I could have told them that's not usually how it is but that happens more often than not.

When I went on Splash Mountain back in April, I made sure to specifically look for the Br'er Rabbit hopping animatronic, splashing frogs in the laughing place, and the boat as that's what I heard was broken. And everything that I looked at was working right. So I don't know when you went, but maybe they fixed it between your trip and mine if you went before me. But maybe I just rode on a lucky day!

I will agree that Uni is strapped for land. I would never argue against that. They do have a bit of land (parking lot type space...sorry I would have to look at the actual maps...whylightbulb talked about it once). If they continue to make money, I could eventually see them trying to buy out the condos/houses...that would be extremely expensive and the Universal before Potter would have never been able to attempt it. But that's farther, way farther down the line and just my speculation. If they really want it, they'll pay for it though...look at the rights to Potter. And at least they only take out things mostly because they have to. Did Snow White's Scary Adventures really have to go? No, it didn't. I think they have the land for both. But instead they took it out even though they have the land. Or when they closed the Wonders of Life Pavilion...instead of leaving it to just rot, they could have put in new attractions and totally revamped the place.

But did they have to take out Jaws? From what I saw, Jaws was a beloved classic opening day attraction. And when I went on it, I thought it was great. I didn't see a reason to take it out, but I guess if they want more Potter, rides gotta start coming out, and Jaws was it. And I guess Snow White is a unique situation. I had never personally ridden it, but the rest of my family did back in April, and they called it "the stupidest ride they ever went on". My cousin is 6 and rode it when she went down and came off in tears. I read a trip report from someone on here yesterday and they too said their daughter came off crying. And I know it says "Scary" in the name, but parents don't expect scary like that in Magic Kingdom. So I could see some of the reasoning behind closing. There was never much of a line and it scared tons of young kids, who shouldn't be scared in Magic Kingdom. But for fans of the park, like people on here, it is an upsetting closing in that it was an orignal attraction of the park. Same with Jaws at Universal. And Jaws was much more popular.

Wonders of Life should be open though, and if not in its original form, then with a new theme. A weather pavilion complete with StormRiders from Tokyo seems to be a popular idea... but that's for another thread. If Epcot needs a flex convention and banquet hall of that size, then one should be built somewhere else in the park, maybe by the African outpost in WS.

I think the Avatar deal was made pretty darn fast...it wasn't so much about that they were hiding things. It just went through fast so people with connections to Disney and even within Disney found out about it about the same time it was announced. But now Avatar Land is an established project within WDW. Plans or lack of plans can't be hidden as easily. I'd trust those who said the project has been scaled back. Lee, Martin, ect all have been pretty reliable in the past.

Ahhh... now I get it. And that makes sense, now its an established project. I do trust Lee, Martin, and the others, but in that thread I mentioned earlier from Tim_4, he mentioned that Avatar Land is still planned, and will include ride(s), a "nighttime spectacular", and a flex QS/table restaurant. He seemed to know what he was talking about, and the established sources backed up some of what he said, so hopefully what he said is true!

And I'm sorry, I wasn't disputing the fact that some do only go to Universal for Potter...a total waste of money IMO, but it's there money to spend. Though how you can walk past Hulk and not want to go on it is beyond me...but that is just me But still, they were there, they saw it, and I'm guessing for a lot of people, will at least remember what Universal does have to offer even if they chose not to experience it that time. The people who went just for Potter will probably go again when the second part opens. To echo your last statement...like I said, in my experience, most have told me (and even from what I've seen from many on this forum)would like to experience it again, especially as more of their projects come to life and say they will go back. Even if it means for a full day instead of a half day. That will add up into significant revenue loss eventually.

I know it is a total waste of money, and I agree, how do you walk past that and not ride? Who knows! And I know most people will go back, so hopefully Disney does add something to entice visitors to stay at Disney.

 

[bubbles1812]

Well since Potter 2.0 isn't public announced yet (or is it? I could be wrong), my friends don't know about it. I suppose that when its announced, they'll go back. It is true, more people are taking the trip to Universal. And I hope that that competition form Universal wil force them to do something. That other thread Tim_4 started ("Confirming Rumors") in the News & Rumors section seems to show that TDO already has realized something needs to be done, if what he posted is true. And I hope it is! If you haven't read it, I suggest you check it out, it's interesting, especially with Lee's, Martin's, Raven's, and 74's take on it.

It hasn't been officially announced, I don't think? So I will give you that. Though I think it's been reported pretty much everywhere what is going in (not just on forums like this). But I do understand how your friends wouldn't know about it without an official announcement. And yes, I definitely have been reading that thread. The talk about DHS is encouraging but like Lee said, he's been trying for several weeks to get confirmation on that and still no word.

When I went on Splash Mountain back in April, I made sure to specifically look for the Br'er Rabbit hopping animatronic, splashing frogs in the laughing place, and the boat as that's what I heard was broken. And everything that I looked at was working right. So I don't know when you went, but maybe they fixed it between your trip and mine if you went before me. But maybe I just rode on a lucky day!

You got lucky! I would have loved to see things working. My last trip Splash shut down several times and the times it was open many effects were broken. I think the biggest one I hate is that the water isn't on under the turtles. It just looks so bad.

But did they have to take out Jaws? From what I saw, Jaws was a beloved classic opening day attraction. And when I went on it, I thought it was great. I didn't see a reason to take it out, but I guess if they want more Potter, rides gotta start coming out, and Jaws was it. And I guess Snow White is a unique situation. I had never personally ridden it, but the rest of my family did back in April, and they called it "the stupidest ride they ever went on". My cousin is 6 and rode it when she went down and came off in tears. I read a trip report from someone on here yesterday and they too said their daughter came off crying. And I know it says "Scary" in the name, but parents don't expect scary like that in Magic Kingdom. So I could see some of the reasoning behind closing. There was never much of a line and it scared tons of young kids, who shouldn't be scared in Magic Kingdom. But for fans of the park, like people on here, it is an upsetting closing in that it was an orignal attraction of the park. Same with Jaws at Universal. And Jaws was much more popular.

Wonders of Life should be open though, and if not in its original form, then with a new theme. A weather pavilion complete with StormRiders from Tokyo seems to be a popular idea... but that's for another thread. If Epcot needs a flex convention and banquet hall of that size, then one should be built somewhere else in the park, maybe by the African outpost in WS.

I don't know if they had to take out Jaws but they, as we discussed, don't really have a lot of room. It was great but I'd say it was the one most in need of a refurb that was taking up a lot of space. (Amnity was a pretty big area). I honestly find it so interesting about the way different kids reacted to Snow White. My first time on it was when I was 7 and my brothers also went on it at 5 and 3...it didn't scare us at all and I really liked it even though I'm not really a big Snow White fan. I'm sorry your family didn't enjoy it though. It's not even about the fact that it was an original attraction to me. It was that they took out a ride to put in another freaking Meet and Greet. I get that M & Gs are popular but taking out a ride to put it in? That's just so blah to me. The least they could have done was put in a new ride.

And yeah, Wonders of Life...they could have done so much with it . StormRiders would be cool.

I know it is a total waste of money, and I agree, how do you walk past that and not ride? Who knows! And I know most people will go back, so hopefully Disney does add something to entice visitors to stay at Disney.

I hope they do go back! And I hope Disney does things to entice visitors to stay. I really do love Disney. I have fun when I'm there. It's just frustrating to see the parks not at the best level they can be for me. I love just in and of itself but I'm also excited that they are doing so many new things specifically because I hope it spurs Disney to finally do something really great at WDW.