Panel Approves Bullet Train Service to Disney World

[mkymaus]

Originally posted by Mr D
Here is a couple of pics of the Tokyo Disneyland Monorail

I think these are really cool, perhaps a special car in the middle of the train with an onboard conveyor system just for loading/offloading luggage? Passengers retrieve luggage similar to an airport carousel at the WDW destination?

So at each stop, you have to sit and wait for unloading of luggage for that location?? How will they determine which luggage come off in a timely, efficient manner?? I think its a recipe for disaster...too much down time from airport to hotel. Lost luggage, etc....hey if the airlines do it, Disney can do it....lost luggage is a nightmare.
How many times during the day will this run...another thought, you have to sit at the airport and wait for the next train to come?? and visa versa on the return to the airport....?? ugh....No thank you-my time at Disney is precious...dont want to spend it on a cattle car with screaming kids and luggage up my wazzooo....its bad enough the flights to Orlando are cattle cars...I dont need that extra "Disney" effect of what one is too. :animwink:

 

[bryon1]

Im sure that there will be DIRECT trains that go just to WDW. As for luggage they can place it in cargo holds and wheel off the entire hold to a baggage area. they may even have overhead luggage areas...

A ton of details (yes some major and some minor)
Dont forget your luggage still needs to make it MCO!! :-0

WDW monorails enter the TTC what every 10 min. at the most. Imagine living in TOKYO with taking mutiple transfers with different trains...Not a pleasant way to be on vaction (I feel your pain) but, would you spend $5.00 to go up the Las Vegas Strip (MGM grand to the Sahara)?? Instead of a taxi or a rental car fighting other tourists who dont know where they are driving to?

I would pay $5.00/$15.00 to go from MCO to WDW. Just think of not having to return your rental car or even worse leaving something in the rental car and not getting it back....

As for JEB...he needs to increase what teachers make anyways....My wife would take a $18K pay cut to teach in Orlando. By building this project it increases jobs and forms a new industry...which is what FL. needs, or Im I just totaly off base?

 

[Al]

How long is the journey from Orlando to Tampa, by car?

 

[Moustronaut]

Originally posted by bryon1
Im sure that there will be DIRECT trains that go just to WDW.

Go back up in the thread for the links to the orlando paper. They have both proposals.

Bombardier would run 14 daily trips orlando to tampa for $46.46 per ticket. 8 daily additional intra-Orlando trips (airport to WDW) but no ticket price is listed.

Global Rail would run 16 daily trips orlando to tampa for $25 per ticket. 17 daily additional intra-orlando trips (airport to WDW) but no ticket price is listed.

Mears currently charges $16 one way or $28 round trip to go from the airport directly to your hotel. So I'd imagine it would be in that range for the local ticket.

 

[Donfan]

Originally posted by mkymaus
So at each stop, you have to sit and wait for unloading of luggage for that location?? How will they determine which luggage come off in a timely, efficient manner??
How many times during the day will this run... :animwink:

There are ways to deal with the luggage problem. I've ridden the train from Heathrow to Paddington Station and from Victoria Station to Gatwick. The trains have open luggage storage at the end of the cars. Passengers load and unload their own luggage. It actually gets it to the passengers faster and easier than having porters handle it. Plus, you know exactly where it is and how much you have.

The problem I still see is that the proposed trains will only run about once an hour, according to the schedules in the newspaper article. If I just miss a train and have to wait at the airport for an hour, I will not be happy. I will just go rent a car, anyway.

Also, the connections once I get to WDW look like an issue to me. If I have to travel all over WDW with a couple of suitcases until I get to my hotel, I will also not be happy. As I've said before on these forums, the key aspect is convenience. If public transportation can't meet, or nearly meet, my schedules, then I will rent a car to give me the convenience that I want. It will also allow me to move around the World when and where I want to.

 

[jrriddle]

Jim Hill wrote an article a while ago about a project called "Destination Disney".
Among other features, one mentioned was that Disney would collect your baggage from the airport and deliver them right to your room.
Perhaps this would be a solution to the luggage problem?

 

[AndyMagic]

Originally posted by Woody13
Don't worry folks. Jeb Bush will never let this plan get off the ground. No bullet train for Florida...sorry.

There is nothing Jed Bush can do about it. The project is already WAY "off the ground" and there is simply no turning back. Phase 1 is supposed to start construction at the end of 2003 according to the official high speed rail website and they have already decided on the company to construct. There isn't much Bush can do at this point. It's gonna happen.

 

[TURKEY]

Originally posted by Donfan
There are ways to deal with the luggage problem. I've ridden the train from Heathrow to Paddington Station and from Victoria Station to Gatwick. The trains have open luggage storage at the end of the cars. Passengers load and unload their own luggage. It actually gets it to the passengers faster and easier than having porters handle it. Plus, you know exactly where it is and how much you have.

I've also done Gatwick to Victoria. I know that there were multiple tracks, but there was a Victoria Express going directly to the station, followed by a train that would end up at the same location, only after making multiple stops.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by jrriddle
Jim Hill wrote an article a while ago about a project called "Destination Disney".
Among other features, one mentioned was that Disney would collect your baggage from the airport and deliver them right to your room.
Perhaps this would be a solution to the luggage problem?

Precisely, luggage will be transported to Disney from the airport either by truck or containers that could be quickly offloaded form the train. the luggage then gets delivered directly to your hotel room.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by Donfan


The problem I still see is that the proposed trains will only run about once an hour, according to the schedules in the newspaper article. If I just miss a train and have to wait at the airport for an hour, I will not be happy. I will just go rent a car, anyway.

You will be checking in at the airport. By the time the check in is complete and the baggage situated, you will only be waiting a few moments for your train to depart for Disney.

 

[Dr Albert Falls]

AndyMagic--

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

"There is nothing Jed Bush can do about it."

Actually, he already has. This summer, in a very visible attack on the high speed rail amendment, he cut nearly all of the train money from the state's budget. (He later provided just enough money for the Florida High Speed Rail Authority to meet a few more times to finalize their rail plans before the package is put on a shelf to collect dust).

Last year, lawmakers passed a bill requiring project costs to be included on constitutional ballots. Now, Jeb Bush is trying to get the High Speed Rail initiative BACK on the ballot, hoping voters will change their mind now that they see the 3 billion dollar price tag.

"The project is already WAY "off the ground""

How so? They just selected the route and the vendor yesterday. Even then, those are just proposals that still need to be approved by the Florida legislature. Plus, the state still needs to get federal approval regarding the project's environmental impact (see next point)

"Phase 1 is supposed to start construction at the end of 2003 according to the official high speed rail website"

True, the constitutional amendment requires construction by November 1st. But it was LITERALLY an impossible request by voters; it takes years to get federal approval on any rail project. So the Florida High Speed Rail Authority is interpreting "construction" to mean "submitting environmental impact reports to the Federal Railroad Administration". (You'll find that buried somewhere on the same webstie) The feds could easily reject the rail proposal, putting Florida is back where it started.

"It's gonna happen."

You are obviously way out of touch on this issue. Which is fine. But if you're going to sign your name to an factually inaccurate post, others are going to set the record straight.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls
Why is Jeb Bush against this?

The high-speed rail is going to cost 3 BILLION dollars. 3 Billion dollars Florida does not have. 3 Billion dollars that should be diverted to overcrowded classrooms and other problems in the state.

Just like every other rail program that's been proposed in the past decade-- THIS ONE WILL NOT HAPPEN.

(Three years ago, Florida voters added an amendment to the state constitution demanding that the train be built. People stupidly checked "yes" because it sounded cool, having no idea how much it was going to cost.)

There are other ways to finance the project than just raising taxes. SOme of the money will come from bonds, some from ridership, some from diversion of funds to build highways, etc.

Jeb just doesn't like it because the people spoke and made something happen. But, thats what politicians are for, to make the will of the people happen. Of course, if you follow the news here in Florida you will notice that the current administration has a slight management and oversight problem with state agencies like the Department of CHildren and Families, Education, Elcetions, etc. Maybe Jeb is just scared the rail organization will further magnify his inability to administrate.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Originally posted by AndyMagic
There is nothing Jed Bush can do about it. The project is already WAY "off the ground" and there is simply no turning back. Phase 1 is supposed to start construction at the end of 2003 according to the official high speed rail website and they have already decided on the company to construct. There isn't much Bush can do at this point. It's gonna happen.

Just last week, Bush convinced the Florida legislature to pass an unprecedented law allowing him to overturn a court order and re-insert Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. As governor, he has the clout to exploit any legal loopholes he can find...and there are always loopholes. It's just a matter of how serious he is in his stance on this.

 

[MrPromey]

Originally posted by mkt
what's bothering me about this..... this route will benefit mainly the tourists and locals who live by the airport/locals who live by WDW going to the airport... that's it. Granted, taking a chunk of tourists off the road will help alleviate traffic. It just bothers me that the locals aren't being represented in this

That's right. This system isn't really intended to benefit the locals who are traveling short distances. It is intended to become a state wide high speed rail. If they add too many stops, it ceases to be high speed. That's why Orlando and Tampa, and St. Petersburg and other Florida communities. are all looking into local light rial/manorial solutions to branch off of the high speed rail system.

The high speed rail would be used to go greater distances and then you would transfer to a localized transportation system for the last leg of your trip.

You have to think of it like a highway as apposed to a road. Part of the problem with our current system is that as you pass through larger cities such as Orlando that have several exits, you run into extreme congestion, especially during 'rush hour'. Why? Because too many people are coming on and off these exits using them as a quick way to get across town. Adding multiple stops over a short distance would have a very similar effect on the high speed rail.

Truth be told, having a Disney stop so close to the airport is probably not a very efficient manner for running this system but putting Disney on a smaller more localized system would mean taking the tremendous revenue that would be generated by Disney's stop and giving it to a local authority. Is that something the state really wants to do?

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by Foolish Mortal
Wow, this kinda surprise's me. I've followed this story in the Orlando Sentinel. From what I had read, it sounded as if most of the descision makers were going to push for the Convention route. And now Disney get's approval by 7-1. What happened to swing the vote so drastically ? Then again it remains to be seen if it will actually get built.

It has to do with the fact that Disney can litterally guarantee about 2 million more riders per year over the other route. They include the train trip in the price of the vacation package to get you WDW. One stop shoppping.

If they were to choose the Convention Center route, then DIsney would continue the Status quo of busing people from the airport.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by Wilt Dasney
Just last week, Bush convinced the Florida legislature to pass an unprecedented law allowing him to overturn a court order and re-insert Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. As governor, he has the clout to exploit any legal loopholes he can find...and there are always loopholes. It's just a matter of how serious he is in his stance on this.

True, although re-election isn't that far off in the big scheme of things.

One person here said the Florida Residents passed the amendment "Stupidly" without knowing the cost. I have yet to see a survey done by a respectable Polster reflecting peoples views based on the actual cost.

You also have to remember that some of the money will inevitably come form the Federal Government as well as state and local sources, not including proceeds from ticket sales. It wont all come from a new or expanded tax situation.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Originally posted by MrPromey
That's right. This system isn't really intended to benefit the locals who are traveling short distances. It is intended to become a state wide high speed rail. If they add too many stops, it ceases to be high speed. That's why Orlando and Tampa, and St. Petersburg and other Florida communities. are all looking into local light rial/manorial solutions to branch off of the high speed rail system.

This is why Disney's stance on this has bothered me so much. If this is intended to be a high-speed transit system serving the state at-large, then making Disney the only Orlando stop defeats the spirit, as I see it. Yet, when a more rider-friendly plan, with other stops plus Disney, was offered, they dug their heels in. This was purely a business interest decision on their part, which is OK in some cases, but not when it comes to something intended to serve the community, not just Disney tourists. Looking out for the bottom line is one thing, but using your clout to put your business ahead of larger interests and force a project that wasn't intended for your benefit to bend to your will--baaaad karma.

 

[TURKEY]

Originally posted by Wilt Dasney
This is why Disney's stance on this has bothered me so much. If this is intended to be a high-speed transit system serving the state at-large, then making Disney the only Orlando stop defeats the spirit, as I see it. Yet, when a more rider-friendly plan, with other stops plus Disney, was offered, they dug their heels in. This was purely a business interest decision on their part, which is OK in some cases, but not when it comes to something intended to serve the community, not just Disney tourists. Looking out for the bottom line is one thing, but using your clout to put your business ahead of larger interests and force a project that wasn't intended for your benefit to bend to your will--baaaad karma.

How does this defeat the purpose?

As a high-speed transit system, largely connecting cities throughout the state, it makes sense to only have one or two stops per city. Having a high-speed rail isn't created to serve a community, but communities spread out over a large distance.

Disney is the the biggest draw for Orlando. It only makes sense to have 1) the airport 2) WDW. If this were to be a localized light rail system, I don't think Disney would be as upset.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by Wilt Dasney
This is why Disney's stance on this has bothered me so much. If this is intended to be a high-speed transit system serving the state at-large, then making Disney the only Orlando stop defeats the spirit, as I see it. Yet, when a more rider-friendly plan, with other stops plus Disney, was offered, they dug their heels in. This was purely a business interest decision on their part, which is OK in some cases, but not when it comes to something intended to serve the community, not just Disney tourists. Looking out for the bottom line is one thing, but using your clout to put your business ahead of larger interests and force a project that wasn't intended for your benefit to bend to your will--baaaad karma.

If you want to get down to it, neither route makes sense for Central Floridians. Most of us do not live near the airport, Convention Center, or Disney.

In theory, the rail would help to alleviate traffic on local roads like I-4 form tourists. However, if you drive on I-4 when it is at its busiest, most of the cars are not filled with families of 4 wearing Mouse Ears, Shrek T-shirts, and drinking from bottles with Shamu Toppers. Instead, Most of the cars have one occupant driving erraticly while talking on the cell-phone and shaving(or doing makeup), eating a bagel and reading the newspaper.

The whole railroad is really a special interest item at this first stage of the game. Later, when the whole state is connected it becomes a different story. For now, this thing has been steered in a direction to replace the lightrail in Central FLorida that has not had a favorable history of action.

 

[TURKEY]

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls
Why is Jeb Bush against this?

The high-speed rail is going to cost 3 BILLION dollars. 3 Billion dollars Florida does not have. 3 Billion dollars that should be diverted to overcrowded classrooms and other problems in the state.

Just like every other rail program that's been proposed in the past decade-- THIS ONE WILL NOT HAPPEN.

(Three years ago, Florida voters added an amendment to the state constitution demanding that the train be built. People stupidly checked "yes" because it sounded cool, having no idea how much it was going to cost.)

Well, the 3 billion dollars needs to be spent on some type of transportation system. Orlando to Tampa isn't far from becoming one big I-4 city. Then it's going to keep going toward Daytona.

Whether high speed rail, light rail, expansion of I-4, or some other type of system, a large amount of money is needed now to fix transportation problems.

By delaying a new system/improvements, it's only going to cost that much more money once more infrastructure is in place that has to be built around.