Panel Approves Bullet Train Service to Disney World

[TURKEY]

Associated Press

ORLANDO, Fla. -- A proposed bullet train across central Florida should run directly from Orlando International Airport to Walt Disney World, bypassing the Orange County Convention Center, a state panel voted Monday.



The Florida High Speed Rail Authority's 7-to-1 decision ended a debate that has simmered since voters, in a constitutional amendment passed in 2000, mandated the construction of a bullet train network spanning the state.

Disney, a unit of Walt Disney Co. (DIS, news), sold the authority on the potential revenue gained if the train's Orlando-area leg followed the Central Florida GreeneWay toll road from the airport, instead of taking the more northerly Beeline Expressway to the nation's third-largest convention hall. With either route, the train would continue on to Tampa, to the Southwest.

The resort promised to place on the trains 2.2 million riders a year, people who currently are bused to their destinations by Disney. The convention center could offer less than one-quarter of those "captive riders," giving the GreeneWay route a projected $15 million advantage in annual revenues.

The resort also promised to donate 50 acres of land for a station where three major traffic arteries meet east of Disney World.

The state predicts the leg could cost as much as $2.5 billion. Despite approval by voters, high-speed rail has been decried as a boondoggle by Gov. Jeb Bush and many legislators, and their approval of any plan hinges upon making the system as inexpensive as possible.

The two contractors vying to run the system are Fluor-Bombardier, builder of the nation's only current bullet train line, the Northeast corridor's Acela; and Global Rail Consortium, a partnership of several companies that has no experience in developing a system on the scale projected for Florida.

The train could be in operation as early as December 2008.

 

[Invero]

Latest reports say that Bombardier has won the bid.

 

[Moustronaut]

So how is that going to work?

High speed rail from the airport to the just outside of WDW resort station.

Then Disney Transportation bus to TTC? Then to your resort?

Or does this finally give Disney enough of an excuse to build a monorail line from the TTC to the new rail station?

 

[jrriddle]

I wonder if this means WDW will expand the monorail or maybe put in the light rail tranist system with the new station being put on the property?

 

[bryon1]

More about the trains from....(how can one say that "Trains are Trains" take a good look at both Las Vegas and their Monorail and Hong Kong with thier Mag-Lev. BIG city towns with BIG trains not some puny trians like light rail. Look at the problems Los Angeles is in..Even they are trying to get MagLev together)

Great news for Orlando....I just hope it doesnt put all of those Mears bus drivers out of work....

(http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/orl-asechighspeed27102703oct27,0,800294.story)

State will pick bullet train's type, maker, route today

By Scott Powers Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted October 27 2003

Three key decisions will be made today in the state's ongoing but uncertain efforts to build the nation's first true high-speed-rail line, between Tampa and Orlando.

The Florida High Speed Rail Authority will pick a route, choose between a jet-powered or electric train, and identify the company that will build and run the system for 30 years.

If the train is to become reality, the state has to back it with $75 million a year for 30 years. Though voters ordered the system to connect Florida's cities when they passed a state constitutional amendment in 2000, no such financial commitments have been made yet, and Gov. Jeb Bush opposes the train.

One of the hottest debates focuses on the train's route.

If it follows a route along the Central Florida GreeneWay (State Road 417) to and from Orlando International Airport, Walt Disney World has promised to try to get its millions of visitors to ride it, giving the project perhaps its best hope of being financially viable.

"This kind of becomes a no-brainer," said Disney Senior Vice President James Lewis.

But a GreeneWay train would bypass International Drive, Orlando's other tourist and economic hub, and would zoom past schools and angry neighborhoods.

If it follows a route that uses the Bee Line Expressway (State Road 528), it could serve Orange County's newly expanded, billion-dollar convention center and all the International Drive attractions and hotels, as well as Disney, creating the potential for even more riders.

"It's really a no-brainer," said Maria Triscari, executive director of the I-Drive Resort Area Chamber of Commerce.

But Disney and Osceola County object to a Bee Line train, saying it would all but kill prospects for a light-rail train that they seek through southern Orange County. Disney refuses to cooperate with a Bee Line train.

Residents of the Hunter's Creek neighborhood, which straddles the GreeneWay, have objected to that route, citing disruption to their neighborhood and schools.

Environmentally even

An environmental-impact study commissioned by the authority finds the two routes about even.

The Bee Line route would disrupt more wetlands; flood plains; contaminated industrial sites; and recreational and historic facilities, and cause more noise and vibration problems.

The GreeneWay route would affect more schools and other public centers, force more relocations, cause more pollution and cost more.

Overriding it all, for some authority members, is the question of riders. Studies show the train needs Orlando tourists to survive. Disney's cooperation could mean up to 2 million riders a year, amounting to $1 billion in revenue during 30 years, though Disney says it cannot make any written guarantees.

If the Bee Line is chosen, the convention center and I-Drive attractions, hotels and businesses could add 500,000 riders to Disney's.

But that assumes Disney would relent.

"I think everybody we've talked to thinks Disney is bluffing, that when it comes down to dollars and cents, no matter where it goes, whether there is high-speed rail or light rail, they will make accommodations to bring it into Disney," Triscari said.

Disney insists it has no reason to bluff.

"I'd be terribly surprised if any of the people on that authority would be willing to roll the dice," Tom Lewis Jr., Disney vice president for transportation development.

The debate has been no less harsh between the two corporate partnerships seeking the $2 billion contract.

"Both sides are firing off letters about how the other one is wrong about this or the other thing," said Authority Chairman Frederick Dudley, a Tallahassee attorney. "I'm going to ask everyone to keep an open mind. If we find one or both of the parties has been less than truthful with us, I'm sure there will be consequences."

Fluor Bombardier proposes a new diesel-fueled jet train of Bombardier's design. It could run at 125 mph on improved conventional tracks, require no electric-line systems and has been approved by U.S. authorities.

Global Rail Consortium wants to use electric trains like those widely used in Europe and Asia, though the trains require all-new tracks and are not yet U.S. approved.

Fluor's bids were lower -- depending on route and options, by about $160 million. But price is not the biggest concern for some authority members.

Authority member Bill Dunn of Miami thinks the authority must pick the best train. For him, that's Global's.

"The electric train is better technology," Dunn said. "It's the fastest train in the world. And they've been operating for 20 years at 186 mph or faster."

'Trains are trains'

Other authority members have raised concerns about the corporate and financial stability they perceive in Global, which is a partnership of more than 30 large and small companies. Fluor Bombardier is a partnership of two international giants, Fluor Daniel and Bombardier Transportation, and offers a bigger, more straightforward set of financial guarantees.

"As far as I'm concerned, trains are trains," said authority member Lee Chira of Orlando. "You want to pick someone who is a marriage partner. It's not an arm's-length relationship; it's which one of these do you feel most comfortable with?"

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by Moustronaut
So how is that going to work?

High speed rail from the airport to the just outside of WDW resort station.

Then Disney Transportation bus to TTC? Then to your resort?

Or does this finally give Disney enough of an excuse to build a monorail line from the TTC to the new rail station?

I have no idea how they plan for it to work. Guests will have to transfer to some other form of transportation once they get to Disney. Whether it be bus, light rail, or monorail remains to be seen.

 

[bryon1]

Just found these maps and train stats...

Sorry I couldnt get them to paste into the post but, if you go back to

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/orl-asechighspeed27102703oct27,0,800294.story


In the right side are the twow links to the maps and train info.

bryon1

 

[bryon1]

FYI....
More information on the State of Florida's high speed train....

http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org...ighspeedrail.web.FreeTextManagement?cmd=start


bryon1http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/servlet/com.hntb.flhighspeedrail.web.FreeTextManagement?cmd=start


bryon1

 

[mkt]

ºoº

 

[mkt]

and time for me to chime in..

yes I am for this...

but I am píssed about this. I live only a few hundred yards away from the proposed route.

 

[Budke]

Originally posted by Moustronaut
So how is that going to work?

I bet they would pull a page from the Oriental Land Company and create a welcome center next to the terminal where you can check into your hotel, have your bags sent to your room, purchase your tickets and catch transportation to the hotels or parks.

Of course, in Japan, that last part just means hopping on the monorail while DisneyWorld would have to treat the welcome center almost like a theme park.

 

[NemoRocks78]

Well wouldn't you know. They're having it come to West Palm.

Goodies!

Now I won't have to worry about having to wait for my parents to take me to WDW anymore.

Wait a sec.

Orlando-Tampa is going to be completed in 2008.

I'll be in college.

Which mean WPB isn't going to be ready until 2017 at the earliest.

I'll be married and have a job.

That stinks. Now i'll be the one to have to pay to go to WDW.

 

[TURKEY]

Originally posted by mkt
and time for me to chime in..

yes I am for this...

but I am píssed about this. I live only a few hundred yards away from the proposed route.

Looks like it's going to go near The Commons and Chatham Square too.

 

[SirNim]

Oooh! This is just what Disney wanted... I wonder how it will affect Disney transportation on-site at the resort...

 

[mkt]

i'm right in the middle of the greeneway route. If they at least had a Hunters Creek stop which would help me out, then that'd be one thing... I would use the rail then. But it's just gonna zoom by me... not cool at all.

 

[Foolish Mortal]

Wow, this kinda surprise's me. I've followed this story in the Orlando Sentinel. From what I had read, it sounded as if most of the descision makers were going to push for the Convention route. And now Disney get's approval by 7-1. What happened to swing the vote so drastically ? Then again it remains to be seen if it will actually get built.

 

[jwbeck3]

Why does the article say that Disney busses the guests now? Disney does not own Mears or any of the other services.

 

[pan11435]

no, but thay do bus people from the airport to WDW for cruise line vacations.

 

[CTXRover]

Honestly, I know practically nothing about this bullet train story, so I would be very thankful to anyone who could fill me in. My major question is the benefits of the route chosen. Obviously it is fantastic for Disney to have it completely bypass a major convention center and Universal (this would have been on the Bee-line expressway, right? ), but what is the major benefit to tourists coming to Florida? It looked like the other route would take them to most of the major tourist attractions in Orlando, as well as the convention center, and then also a stop in Disney at the same place the Greeneway route does. What would be the obvious benefits to the Greeneway route that it passed by margin of 7-1? There doesn't look to be any other stops between the airport and Disney with the Greeneway route. Is that correct?

 

[Invero]

Originally posted by jwbeck3
Why does the article say that Disney busses the guests now? Disney does not own Mears or any of the other services.

No, but they contract out to Mears.