Bairstow
Well-Known Member
Saves money on construction, Insurance, and air conditioning.
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Pandora Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter twebber55
- Start date
Saves money on construction, Insurance, and air conditioning.
Well, when the park down the street isn't holding back, why skimp on this?
Jones14
Well-Known Member
It's not so much skimping as it is working within a budget. The boat ride was never designed to be anything more than a C ticket. If Flight of Passage is Gringotts, Na'Vi River is Jimmy Fallon.
Well, maybe it will be different after I get there this Sunday, but it looks like lots of planning and money went into the land itself and the queues and the attractions are sort of on the back burner as far as ingenuity and thought. Another boat ride and Soarin' 3.0 is what we got. If total land immersion was what they were going for all along, then I think all of us have been focused on the wrong things. Hope this strategy pays off.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
Because people will still pay money to ride it.
Unlike Universal, Dsney does not have to exceed anyone's expectations- they just have to sort of meet them and have one pretty animatronic to put in the commercials to drum up interest. As long as James Cameron isn't complaining, why spend money when they don't have to?
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Far from "everyone" is even aware that Shanghai's POTC even exists, let alone the quality level of it. I would imagine that the vast vast majority of guests who will be experiencing Pandora are not aware of the ride in China and certainly won't be comparing NRJ to it.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
I don't get the issue... This land is opening with a major attraction, and a fully themed minor attraction... For goodness sake the most praised land of all Hogsmeade has one major ride and a barely themed kiddie coaster, and in orlando has a barely themed major coaster.. Diagon Alley has one major ride and a transport system.
Pandora is right on par with what all the other parks are offering, and even more so as this is the first major land expansion Disney has done that includes two gorgeously themed rides (apart from New Fantasyland)...
Pandora is right on par with what all the other parks are offering, and even more so as this is the first major land expansion Disney has done that includes two gorgeously themed rides (apart from New Fantasyland)...
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Without experiencing it myself, I suspect that NRJ is most impressive in how close you are to the dense show scenes and how engaged that would make a guest feel -- unlike other rides where you are more of a passive observer but NRJ you might feel truly within the environment.
So your criticism boils down to "It could be longer."?
Isn't that a criticism that can be levied against almost every ride in existence (except Ellen's)?
At 5:00, it's pretty much a normal length ride...
Barnstormer 1.0
Primeval Whirl 1.2
Rock 'N' Roller Coaster 1.4
Astro Orbiter 1.5
Dumbo the Flying Elephant 1.5
Mad Tea Party 1.5
Magic Carpets of Aladdin 1.5
TriceraTop Spin 1.5
Prince Charminng's Royal Carrousel 2.0
Snow White's Scary Adventures 2.4
Seven Dwarfs Mine Train 2.5
Space Mountain 2.5
Peter Pan's Flight 2.7
Expedition Everest 2.9
Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh 3.1
Dinosaur 3.2
Big Thunder Mountain Railroad 3.4
Kali River Rapids 3.5
Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin 4.0
The Seas with Nemo and Friends 4.0
Test Track 4.0
Tomorrowland Indy Speedway 4.8
Frozen Ever After 5.0
Soarin' 5.0
Star Tours 5.0
Twilight Zone Tower of Terror 5.0
Na'vi River Journey 5.0
Mission SPACE 5.6
Under the Sea - Journey of the Little Mermaid 6.4
Haunted Mansion 7.5
Toy Story Midway Mania 8.0
It's Tough to be a Bug 8.0
Gran Fiesta Tour Starring the Three Caballeros 8.1
Pirates of the Caribbean 8.5
Jungle Cruise 9.1
Enchanted Tiki Room 10.0
Tomorrowland Transit Authority Peoplemover 10.1
It's a Small World 10.5
Monster's Inc. Laugh Floor 11.0
Splash Mountain 11.0
Journey into Imagination with Figment 11.0
Country Bear Jamboree 12.0
Mickey's PhilharMagic 12.0
Reflections of China 12.5
Liberty Square Riverboat 12.7
Swiss Family Treehouse 13.1
Living with the Land 13.8
Voyage of the Little Mermaid 14.5
Stitch's Great Escape 15.0
Spaceship Earth 15.0
Turtle Talk with Crush 15.0
Muppet Vision 3-D 17.0
Impressions de France 18.0
O Canada! 18.0
Kilimanjaro Safari 18.5
Great Movie Ride 18.7
Circle of Life 19.3
Walt Disney Railroad 20.0
Disney Junior - Live on Stage 20.0
Carousel of Progress 20.7
Hall of Presidents 22.8
Walt Disney - One Man's Dream 25.0
Flights of Wonder 25.0
American Adventure 28.5
Beauty and the Beast Stage Show 30.0
Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular 30.0
Festival of the Lion King 30.0
Finding Nemo - The Musical 30.0
Lights, Motor, Action! Extreme Stunt Show 35.0
Universe of Energy 45.0
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
I don't really think it's "my" criticism - quite a few people have made the point.
And there is a LOT of apple/ orange comparisons going on in that list - you've included stage shows, for goodness sake. The appropriate comparison would be with dark rides: on that front, RJ is comparable to Maelstrom/Frozen, which has ALWAYS been considered short for a dark ride. Seriously, that has never really been a point of dispute.
And let's contextualize this a bit more. This is one of two attractions in a massively promoted new land, a land designed to complete the original plan of AK. It's an attraction that has been under construction - and the subject of fan anticipation - for a very long time. And, ultimately, it's a pretty, short boat ride with one impressive AA and some screens that essentially reproduces the environment found throughout the rest of the land in a more compact setting.
By the way, this last point is a relevant one that hasn't been touched on at much length. One of the old imagineers (I forget the name, maybe one of our more knowledgeable insiders can fill it in) told a story of attempting to build a ride based on the animated Robin Hood but quickly realizing that the setting would be stone wall, forest, stone wall... a boring ride. The lesson, he explained, was that the key to a dark ride is a variety of settings. I'm not sure RJ offers that.
Anyway... RJ also comes hot on the heels of the opening of Shanghai's PoC and Mystic Manor, which show what kind of dark rides Disney can build if they want to.
So yes, I think "it SHOULD be longer" is, along with other criticisms, entirely valid. As I've stated, I'm looking forward to it - but I would look forward to ANY dark ride. I'm still sad I never got to ride Knights in White Satin at Hard Rock, and that looked awful. I can both anticipate the ride and look at it critically.
Yeah, well your criticisms (both the ones you're willing to own and the ones you foist upon 'others') are a death by a thousand cuts: it could be longer, it could have more diverse scenes, it could have been built to be an E Ticket instead of a C Ticket, it could have been a headliner, it could have reflected more the investment in the land, it could have been more like the last dark ride, it could have lived up to the hype of the new land, it could have lived up to (unrealistic) fan expectation, etc....
And again, almost all those critiques can be thrown at almost all rides. It boils down to "it could be more".
Those critiques can only be validated by experience and especially experienced by people who didn't walk into it with unrealistic expectations ("this should be an E ride!"). After experiencing it, then they can evaluate whether is was too short, whether the scenes weren't diverse enough, whether it fulfilled the expectation of the creators (a family-friendly peaceful tour of an alien world filled with strange beauty).
I'm sorry I didn't edit out of the list of attraction lengths the shows which caused you do miss the point that the ride isn't too short when comparing apples to apples. Sorry it distracted you so much.
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
Your list wasn't distracting, it was deceptive. You didn't bother to actually address the point that RJ is directly comparable to another boat ride on WDW property that is widely held to be notably short.
And those criticisms are, by and large, valid given the particular context in which RJ is opening. And they do NOT apply to every ride, as you are well aware. For instance, I don't think criticisms of length or scene diversity would be fairly applied to PoC or HM (any versions), any of the original EPCOT attractions, Mystic Manor, Tokyo's Monsters or Pooh. They also, because of context, wouldn't be properly applied to any of the DL dark rides - the list goes on.
And the criticisms "it could be an E, it could be longer" are completely valid given the broader financial reality of WDW. I know you are aware of the lack of investments in the park, the constant price increases, the slashing of entertainment and the cutbacks on rides like 7D. THAT is the context in which this is opening, and as such it's length and simplicity is a manifestation of those factors. If RJ had opened in WDW 20 years ago, the criticisms would be far less valid. But it didn't.
The expectations people had for this ride are entirely the result of its long gestation period, the money spent on the land, its key spot as the final land of a park's original plan, and the fact that it is one of very few major additions in a very long time. The expectations are Disney's creation.
The fact that you don't like criticisms of the ride - or of Disney - does not make those criticisms invalid.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
Here's where I stand.
If they built this ride as the sole ride in Pandora, the flagship.... I'd be shocked and dismayed. But it isn't, it's the accoutrement to an incredible ride and highly themed land. It's a beautiful, family-friendly boat ride, going through one of the most incredible landscapes of the films. It integrates gorgeous practical sets, projection, and AA technology. It's the perfect fit for the land, an E-Ticket plus a c or d ticket attraction is a great portfolio for a land to have, especially when all these lands being built now-a-days typically consist of one attraction. As well, it's a good length at 5 minutes, longer then most Fantasyland dark rides and typical second tier attraction...
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
I think this is a valid defense of the attraction.
There ARE new lands being built with more than one major attraction - Diagon's HE is my favorite Potter ride at Uni. But part of the reason that Uni can get away with rides like Fallon or having only one E-ticket in Hogsmeade is the sheer speed at which they are building, opening attractions yearly. If Disney does this, RJ might look better in retrospect - and there is hope, with SWL on the horizon. But they need to keep going at that rate for several years.
Mawg
Well-Known Member
5 mins does seem average for rides. I wonder if the reason people have gotten off and thought wow it seems pretty short is really because it is lacking in content. One animatronic and then the rest all probably feels the same, very beautiful but the same. Just looking at the video's and commenting of course. But, to me it looks like something I really want to ride and experience but then probably not ever again.
flyerjab
Well-Known Member
What is fascinating to me is the polarity across which so many opinions can exist for how any one given 'land' should exist in a theme park. For me, seeing what Rohde and his team have accomplished with Pandora has satisfied all of my expectations. I even believe that the E-Ticket ride will exceed them. It will most likely push me to the point of saying, "ok, since they could create what they did here why does NFL come up slightly short in certain areas (not 7DMT though, I am fine with that one as is), or why couldn't FEA be better?" It's going to turn me into a Monday-morning Imagineer.
In the case of DAK, the pleasure center in my brain for all things that are beautifully aesthetic gets completely quenched the moment I step foot inside the park. I don't go there for the amount of rides, or for the edutainment of the natural world, or because of headliner E-Tickets. I go there because it is akin to stepping into a painting, or a sculpture. Most of that park is a work of art to me, with details hidden within details. The care and understanding of other worldly places is up front and evident almost everywhere.
And the atmosphere created, whether it is along an animal path watching a baby gorilla splashing in a stream, or a giraffe slowly plodding along the side of the safari vehicle, or watching the sun set on the deck of the Nomad Lounge...this park is a culmination of moments that tug at me emotionally at times. The musicians that play there also provide park entertainment that is almost second to none. There is a harp player on Discovery Island that is a can't miss performance every time we catch him. And don't get me started on the Tree of Life Awakenings; the animation along with the beautiful musical scores can really stir something inside.
For me, Pandora is going to build upon this. I can't get tied up in E vs. C, long ride vs. short, how many AAs are too many or too little. I will judge Pandora on its entirety, as I believe that is how it was made. Similar to Potter in UNI, the land is now judged as one large amalgam of experiences that are not simply rides. I love DA, but what I like most about it is not Gringotts; it is the beauty in the recreated alley that millions know and find comfort in, it is the plethora of shops that you can visit, or watching a child be amazed in Ollivander's (and don't even get me started on Nocturne Alley - I lost myself in Borgen and Burkes). The big ride is the cherry on top as the saying goes. If I were to judge DA solely on ride, length of ride, etc., DA would not get top marks since there really only is one ride dedicated to that expansion. But as one, over-arching experience, DA is phenomenal.
I think that Pandora should be approached similarly. From what I have seen I think that the NRJ is actually as it has always been advertised. From early on we have always known that it was going to be a C Ticket attraction - it was never billed as anything more. And we have always know that there would be a big E Ticket and floating mountains. I look at all things in totality for this expansion and together it will again produce a bevy of moments that will culminate into something grand...something I won't get anywhere else. Next week I will step foot into Pandora in the evening and hopefully get to see the land begin to change and strike a different tone as night creeps in. They could have decided to not pay as much attention to the land itself, but I believe that they feel that the land itself is akin to an attraction, much like I feel that the animal walking paths themselves are the equivalent of D Ticket attractions (to use the vernacular). In this case, the landscape is to me an E Ticket home run, considering the lengths and care taken to interweave fantastic plants with real plants, as well as recreating massive floating mountains in front of a majestic cliff, topped off with waterfalls and streams everywhere. Additionally, the bioluminescence at night will make this a true, uniquely beautiful experience that you won't find anywhere else. In this case alone it is the most impressive land in Orlando...period (until maybe Star Wars).
But I am a sucker for aesthetics, which is why DAK will always be my most favorite of the Orlando parks. Rohde has done something special here, and Pandora appears no different. I cannot wait to take in every last detail next week, only to find out later on that there will still be some that missed.
In the case of DAK, the pleasure center in my brain for all things that are beautifully aesthetic gets completely quenched the moment I step foot inside the park. I don't go there for the amount of rides, or for the edutainment of the natural world, or because of headliner E-Tickets. I go there because it is akin to stepping into a painting, or a sculpture. Most of that park is a work of art to me, with details hidden within details. The care and understanding of other worldly places is up front and evident almost everywhere.
And the atmosphere created, whether it is along an animal path watching a baby gorilla splashing in a stream, or a giraffe slowly plodding along the side of the safari vehicle, or watching the sun set on the deck of the Nomad Lounge...this park is a culmination of moments that tug at me emotionally at times. The musicians that play there also provide park entertainment that is almost second to none. There is a harp player on Discovery Island that is a can't miss performance every time we catch him. And don't get me started on the Tree of Life Awakenings; the animation along with the beautiful musical scores can really stir something inside.
For me, Pandora is going to build upon this. I can't get tied up in E vs. C, long ride vs. short, how many AAs are too many or too little. I will judge Pandora on its entirety, as I believe that is how it was made. Similar to Potter in UNI, the land is now judged as one large amalgam of experiences that are not simply rides. I love DA, but what I like most about it is not Gringotts; it is the beauty in the recreated alley that millions know and find comfort in, it is the plethora of shops that you can visit, or watching a child be amazed in Ollivander's (and don't even get me started on Nocturne Alley - I lost myself in Borgen and Burkes). The big ride is the cherry on top as the saying goes. If I were to judge DA solely on ride, length of ride, etc., DA would not get top marks since there really only is one ride dedicated to that expansion. But as one, over-arching experience, DA is phenomenal.
I think that Pandora should be approached similarly. From what I have seen I think that the NRJ is actually as it has always been advertised. From early on we have always known that it was going to be a C Ticket attraction - it was never billed as anything more. And we have always know that there would be a big E Ticket and floating mountains. I look at all things in totality for this expansion and together it will again produce a bevy of moments that will culminate into something grand...something I won't get anywhere else. Next week I will step foot into Pandora in the evening and hopefully get to see the land begin to change and strike a different tone as night creeps in. They could have decided to not pay as much attention to the land itself, but I believe that they feel that the land itself is akin to an attraction, much like I feel that the animal walking paths themselves are the equivalent of D Ticket attractions (to use the vernacular). In this case, the landscape is to me an E Ticket home run, considering the lengths and care taken to interweave fantastic plants with real plants, as well as recreating massive floating mountains in front of a majestic cliff, topped off with waterfalls and streams everywhere. Additionally, the bioluminescence at night will make this a true, uniquely beautiful experience that you won't find anywhere else. In this case alone it is the most impressive land in Orlando...period (until maybe Star Wars).
But I am a sucker for aesthetics, which is why DAK will always be my most favorite of the Orlando parks. Rohde has done something special here, and Pandora appears no different. I cannot wait to take in every last detail next week, only to find out later on that there will still be some that missed.
^^^^This!
Incomudro
Well-Known Member
I agree with this.
I'm sure I'll love this ride, and I'm certain its depth and beauty are not captured on video.
I do believe however that Disney should have included an animatronic critter.
They are a big part of the movie.
One more scene featuring an animatronic creature would have fleshed out the ride length and provided one more thing to marvel at.
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Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
I was able to preview Pandora, though I did not get to ride Flight of Passage and did not see the land after dark. Also I uh.. have not seen the movie. Here are my thoughts!
The land is absolutely beautiful and dripping with detail everywhere you look. The amount of craft work into every square inch of the place is incredible. They did a fantastic job of seamlessly blending this land into the park. There are some nods to the film that are mostly subtle and also tied into the park's conservation message. I believe they got this exactly right in that it's not about the movie at all, its about Pandora, another planet, perhaps you've seen or heard about it?
The queue for Flight of Passage is easily one of the best queues ever made.
I think Na'Vi River Journey is the perfect C-ticket attraction. I love that it's just an experience, no story, just an old school "ride and enjoy the ambiance" attraction. The minimal screen usage doesn't bother me because they enhance a physical scene, rather than being the scene. Agreed that there should have been perhaps a few animatronic creatures. What concerns me is the capacity- it seems very low. I haven't really been following Pandora discussion so I don't know how much this has been covered, but this should have been a people eater. Instead, it will likely have very long lines leading to higher than intended expectations. Still, I appreciate that they even bothered to include a second ride.
The main restaurant's food was decent and interesting. Both it and the gift shop are a little underwhelming, and it gives you an idea of how Disney would have treated Harry Potter, had they proceeded with it. The restaurant is definitely a Disney theme park restaurant, the gift shop is definitely a Disney theme park gift shop. Both are big, open, and have minimal theming. A big ingredient to the success of the WWoHP is how authentic the shops, restaurants, food, and merchandise all are.
If I had to criticize the land itself, it's that ultimately, despite the amazing detail and beauty, it does feel a bit lifeless and empty. I'll need to actually watch the movie to give input on how this could be improved.
I'm also going to reserve ranking the land (in terms of where it lands in my top theme park lands list) until after I actually ride Flight of Passage and also see the land at night time, which I am very excited for.
The land is absolutely beautiful and dripping with detail everywhere you look. The amount of craft work into every square inch of the place is incredible. They did a fantastic job of seamlessly blending this land into the park. There are some nods to the film that are mostly subtle and also tied into the park's conservation message. I believe they got this exactly right in that it's not about the movie at all, its about Pandora, another planet, perhaps you've seen or heard about it?
The queue for Flight of Passage is easily one of the best queues ever made.
I think Na'Vi River Journey is the perfect C-ticket attraction. I love that it's just an experience, no story, just an old school "ride and enjoy the ambiance" attraction. The minimal screen usage doesn't bother me because they enhance a physical scene, rather than being the scene. Agreed that there should have been perhaps a few animatronic creatures. What concerns me is the capacity- it seems very low. I haven't really been following Pandora discussion so I don't know how much this has been covered, but this should have been a people eater. Instead, it will likely have very long lines leading to higher than intended expectations. Still, I appreciate that they even bothered to include a second ride.
The main restaurant's food was decent and interesting. Both it and the gift shop are a little underwhelming, and it gives you an idea of how Disney would have treated Harry Potter, had they proceeded with it. The restaurant is definitely a Disney theme park restaurant, the gift shop is definitely a Disney theme park gift shop. Both are big, open, and have minimal theming. A big ingredient to the success of the WWoHP is how authentic the shops, restaurants, food, and merchandise all are.
If I had to criticize the land itself, it's that ultimately, despite the amazing detail and beauty, it does feel a bit lifeless and empty. I'll need to actually watch the movie to give input on how this could be improved.
I'm also going to reserve ranking the land (in terms of where it lands in my top theme park lands list) until after I actually ride Flight of Passage and also see the land at night time, which I am very excited for.
MMDisneyPodcaster
New Member
I have a lot of CM friends that are saying that Pandora was well worth the wait!! Im going to be checking it out later this year.