Our complaints about Epcot between the 2000’s and now, are we living in our worse WDW nightmare?

[Tom Morrow]

Like doing NOTHING as your competition builds basically an entirely new park compound 6 miles away?

Ehh, I don't know about this one. When all's said and done, they'll still be one theme park, one water park, and a signification portion of hotels ahead. The entirely of UOR typically sees roughly only a little more than the attendance that Magic Kingdom alone sees daily.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ehh, I don't know about this one. When all's said and done, they'll still be one theme park, one water park, and a signification portion of hotels ahead. The entirely of UOR typically sees roughly only a little more than the attendance that Magic Kingdom alone sees daily.

I’m not saying they need to “match it”

But a response to strengthen your parks is warranted and frankly expected. It’s gonna look terrible as things sit.

Universal is nowhere near the size/pull…but this kinda step makes them much more of a “destination” than they’ve ever been.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I’m guessing we’ll fall into two camps, the old old timers who remember their Epcot from 30 years ago, and see all these changes as negatives, and those of us who’ve only been going for a decade or 2 and have only known the lessor Epcot and see these changes as improvements.

My first visit to Epcot was 2013 so for me most of what they’ve done has been an improvement… replacing the tombstone front entrance with planters and the sculpture was a huge upgrade, the lighting on SSE is spectacular, Guardians (despite its visible show building and story faults) is a huge upgrade from Ellen’s, the green hub is a huge upgrade over the concrete jungle that was there, Moana (despite its odd placement) is a huge upgrade over the previously empty innoventions building, the new expo/stage building is an upgrade over the other innoventions building that was acting as a Starbucks/Coke stand with the other 90% empty, the new restaurant/Starbucks is an upgrade over the Umbrella restaurant, the new store is an upgrade over MouseGears, Space220 is a nice addition over the former empty lot, we like Frozen better than the Norway ride, Ratatouille is an upgrade over the formerly empty lot… the only downgrade I see is Harmonious vs Illuminations (which is hopefully being fixed).

I‘ve heard about the glory days of Epcot but from what I can tell they haven’t existed since the 90s, personally I’ll take what we have now over what I first experienced a decade ago.

I can very much understand this perspective as Epcot has been a "sick" park for a long time with big, dead, empty spaces. One thing that can be said for the recent changes is that at least Future World (or whatever it is now) looks nice again. Almost everything they did from about 1995 onward made it look progressively uglier, with the tombstones and the lame versions of them painted on the supports of SSE the worst offenders. I certainly agree that Connections and Creations are vast improvements over MouseGear and Electric Umbrella.

My main wish is that they had a more cohesive vision for the park. Sure, the world's fair concept probably isn't coming back for various reasons, but it would be nice to know the park had some kind of mission statement that set it apart. Thinking through the recent additions, though, I'd also struggle to argue it was a better park in, say, November 2013 than it will be in November 2023 when the central spine is all opened up.

 

[HauntedPirate]

There's nothing quite like bemoaning some things about the former Epcot that needed addressing and watching some dork in a sweater and a bald crap peddler come along and say, "Hold our beers".

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It is a mess now, but they are not even close to being done with it. My complaint is that they are taking their sweet time with it. There is no reason for things to take this long. But I will wait until it is actually done to see if I love or hate it.

Oh I think you’re gonna be shocked at how little they’re gonna do beyond the rock garden

 

[mf1972]

at least they fixed 1 mistake by getting rid of that atrocity in the the lagoon. man was that an eyesore.

 

[Disney4family]

Agreed! The Land pavilion is the best pavilion! I hope Disney does not ruin it!

The Land pavilion has
Three attractions.
A great counter service food court, FREE REFILLS of soda (I hope that is still the case)
One of the most unique table service with characters (I hope that is still the case)
A great backstage tour (I hope that is still the case)
The only thing it does not have is a formal gift shop! I find that both refreshing and funny.

There were still free refills at Sunshine Seasons on Thursday when we were there.
I agree that it's a great counter service food court - even though their menu took a hit over the last few years (like most places on property).
Unfortunately, they only offer snacks after 4pm now.
According to the CMs who work there, the company shut it down for dinner to push people to eat at Connections.

 

[Disstevefan1]

There were still free refills at Sunshine Seasons on Thursday when we were there.
I agree that it's a great counter service food court - even though their menu took a hit over the last few years (like most places on property).
Unfortunately, they only offer snacks after 4pm now.
According to the CMs who work there, the company shut it down for dinner to push people to eat at Connections.

Oh boy! only snacks after 4 PM!

Well, this is to be expected.

It's the Disney process -

Over time offer less and less and charge more and more.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There were still free refills at Sunshine Seasons on Thursday when we were there.
I agree that it's a great counter service food court - even though their menu took a hit over the last few years (like most places on property).
Unfortunately, they only offer snacks after 4pm now.
According to the CMs who work there, the company shut it down for dinner to push people to eat at Connections.

Sure…300 yards away behind a construction wall that’s been around long enough to keep the Huns out when it’s 100 degrees…


Excellent “statistical analysis” in burbank

 

[Disney Dead Head]

I’m not saying they need to “match it”

But a response to strengthen your parks is warranted and frankly expected. It’s gonna look terrible as things sit.

Universal is nowhere near the size/pull…but this kinda step makes them much more of a “destination” than they’ve ever been.

Wait till they build American Dream Miami Mall/Theme Park

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wait till they build American Dream Miami Mall/Theme Park

…we talking a Beast Burger and Carnie Rides?

 

[mf1972]

…we talking a Beast Burger and Carnie Rides?

i’ve seen a few review videos of beast burger & none were good. 2-3 called it overrated. i’ve never tried it, although the american dream mall here in NJ isn’t too far from me. to each their own i guess.

 

[mightynine]

I think my biggest frustration is that there's been a LOT of money spent on the park, and the end result is...a thematic mess at the front of the park, which is where we were in the first place.

An IP-driven approach to the parks will hurt EPCOT and Animal Kingdom the most, as they are (IMO) the least flexible in their original themes - EPCOT in particular in the area formerly known as Future World. The slap-dash "neighborhood" approach that has no overlaying design or place-making (outside of what - different colored trash cans?) is a example of this.

Magic Kingdom and Studios, due to their nature, I think can handle more IP, though it's not like Laugh Floor or Space Ranger Spin make a lot of sense in Tomorrowland. Tiana in Frontierland also doesn't really fit - a salt dome in Louisiana is not the West.

All of this would mean something if the company looked at these places as theme parks built by Disney, rather than parks themed to Disney.

I don't ever expect a return to OG Epcot, but I would like something that was more than a combination of Magic Kingdom's bonus features and food'n'booze fests that give you less value than a good meal at Disney Springs while trying to stick on elements of OG Epcot like a cheap toupee to make you think something's still there there.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

i’ve seen a few review videos of beast burger & none were good. 2-3 called it overrated. i’ve never tried it, although the american dream mall here in NJ isn’t too far from me. to each their own i guess.

I was joking…

And I hear the same thing. I have teens and of course they love his antics - however.

Sorry about living that close to the meadowlands

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think my biggest frustration is that there's been a LOT of money spent on the park, and the end result is...a thematic mess at the front of the park, which is where we were in the first place.

An IP-driven approach to the parks will hurt EPCOT and Animal Kingdom the most, as they are (IMO) the least flexible in their original themes - EPCOT in particular in the area formerly known as Future World. The slap-dash "neighborhood" approach that has no overlaying design or place-making (outside of what - different colored trash cans?) is a example of this.

Magic Kingdom and Studios, due to their nature, I think can handle more IP, though it's not like Laugh Floor or Space Ranger Spin make a lot of sense in Tomorrowland. Tiana in Frontierland also doesn't really fit - a salt dome in Louisiana is not the West.

All of this would mean something if the company looked at these places as theme parks built by Disney, rather than parks themed to Disney.

I don't ever expect a return to OG Epcot, but I would like something that was more than a combination of Magic Kingdom's bonus features and food'n'booze fests that give you less value than a good meal at Disney Springs while trying to stick on elements of OG Epcot like a cheap toupee to make you think something's still there there.

Epcot was the greatest theme park concept ever. Full stop

The fact it has been abandoned or ignored in any way is a failure of the highly paid leadership and in many ways the customers

 

[Disney Dead Head]

…we talking a Beast Burger and Carnie Rides?

Do you mean like D Luxe Burger? or maybe Primeval Whirl or Alien Swirling Saucers?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Do you mean like D Luxe Burger? or maybe Primeval Whirl or Alien Swirling Saucers?

…woah…I didn’t say all expensive and high class

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Ehh, I don't know about this one. When all's said and done, they'll still be one theme park, one water park, and a signification portion of hotels ahead. The entirely of UOR typically sees roughly only a little more than the attendance that Magic Kingdom alone sees daily.

What a lot of people miss is that it's not just Uni that poses a threat. It's going to be that entire corridor.

Eventually north of Sandlake will be redeveloped and then you'll have one giant entertainment district that is bookended by two theme parks that are not named Disney. I think Disney already somewhat realizes that. Remember the advertising campaign they had on the parking garage in front of ICON?

You'll have the infrastructure of the convention hotels, the newer hotels near ICON, the new hotels Uni is building as a part of EPIC. You'll see things like ICON, Andretti, and other attractions/options/hotels that will be built in that area.

 

[networkpro]

Epcot was the greatest theme park concept ever. Full stop

The fact it has been abandoned or ignored in any way is a failure of the highly paid leadership and in many ways the customers

Epcots' funding model, sponsors, as well as functionality based on Edutainment, changed for the front portion of the park as also did the premise of a permanent world fair in the back also muted by the ubiquity of global travel.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Epcots' funding model, sponsors, as well as functionality based on Edutainment, changed for the front portion of the park as also did the premise of a permanent world fair in the back also muted by the ubiquity of global travel.

Oh I don’t disagree

I’ve always said the Internet killed the park. It took a lot of the inherent “wonder”
Out of it.

But they got real lazy with it. Which is Stupid given the high overhead. Same with dak.