Oscar Nominations 2014

[Matt_Black]

With all due respect to Dern, he's no O' Toole.

Neither was Jack Palance.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Neither was Jack Palance.

Oscar precursors are the reason it is easy to see that Dern won't win. Critics Choice Awards, Golden Globes, Screen Actors Guild....all voted for MM. It's a near lock, just like Jared Leto is a 100% lock and Cate Blanchett is nearly a lock as well.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Yes, I'm aware of the story. I'm aware Thompson was the lead actress, and Hanks was the supporting actor. Travers was lead, Disney was supporting. That doesn't mean his character was excused from depth. It was a one-note, simplistic role, and Hanks played one-note and simplistic very well.

It was incredibly clear that Disney executives did not give the filmmakers free reign in making this film. It was obvious that they were protecting the image of Walt Disney in this one.

Diane Disney Miller, Walt's daughter, said that her father was not a complicated man. That he was pretty straightforward pretty much all of his life, and had no dark secrets, no hidden flaws - that everything about him was pretty much out in the open. Now obviously, Disney wants to protect Walt's image - but that doesn't mean the portrayal of Walt in "Banks" was made up out of whole cloth. People who worked with Walt, like Richard Sherman, had a lot of input in the script. Given that, I think it's fair to assume that it was an honest portrayal, all things considered. We're talking about 2 weeks in the life of the man. For the scriptwriters, there wasn't time - or motivation - to get any deeper into his personality than what was shown. The film got as much Walt as it needed, and according to Richard Sherman at least, it got Walt right.

 

[Matt_Black]

Oscar precursors are the reason it is easy to see that Dern won't win. Critics Choice Awards, Golden Globes....

It's interesting you bring that up. What do you think is going to win Best Song? U2 took the Golden Globe, but Let It Go snagged the Critics' Choice Award. I'm thinking they might give it to U2 because Mandela wasn't nominated for any other major award, and he died, so it's a nice feel good moment in the show.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Diane Disney Miller, Walt's daughter, said that her father was not a complicated man. That he was pretty straightforward pretty much all of his life, and had no dark secrets, no hidden flaws - that everything about him was pretty much out in the open. Now obviously, Disney wants to protect Walt's image - but that doesn't mean the portrayal of Walt in "Banks" was made up out of whole cloth. People who worked with Walt, like Richard Sherman, had a lot of input in the script. Given that, I think it's fair to assume that it was an honest portrayal, all things considered. We're talking about 2 weeks in the life of the man. For the scriptwriters, there wasn't time - or motivation - to get any deeper into his personality than what was shown. The film got as much Walt as it needed, and according to Richard Sherman at least, it got Walt right.

The truth is that Travers hated the film and would not sign off on any further Mary Poppins films, so the impression that the film gives the audience is generally dishonest. It plays as if Walt Disney was right all along, and PL Travers just needed to see the final version on screen to understand that. That's not how it played out at a all, in reality.

In reality, he spent little-to-no time with Travers since he already had the rights. He left it up to the creative team to hammer out the detail for the final script approval clause.

Much of the film is embellished for dramatic purposes, which is fine. This is a fictional drama, not a documentary. But considering the Disney/Travers relationship was reportedly less than pleasant in reality, the decision to portray him a "practically perfect in every way" on film was a product of Disney damage control, not a true reflection of the real person.

 

[Matt_Black]

Well, considering that Poppins was nominated for several Academy Awards, winning two (if I'm not mistaken) and is considered by many as the greatest live action film Disney has ever done, Walt was kind of right, in that context.

 

[Tony Perkis]

It's interesting you bring that up. What do you think is going to win Best Song? U2 took the Golden Globe, but Let It Go snagged the Critics' Choice Award. I'm thinking they might give it to U2 because Mandela wasn't nominated for any other major award, and he died, so it's a nice feel good moment in the show.

The Globes are weird. They are the ones that started the Argo runaway train last year, but they have zero overlap with Oscar voters. The Hollywood Foreign Press is a group of roughly 40 reporters. They can influence Oscar voting by setting a precedence, but they are probably one of the least credible indicators of Oscar votes.

The SAG win is a much bigger representation of how the Oscar voting will go down.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Well, considering that Poppins was nominated for several Academy Awards, winning two (if I'm not mistaken) and is considered by many as the greatest live action film Disney has ever done, Walt was kind of right, in that context.

He was absolutely right about what would make a better film.

But the movie left a less-than-honest impression that Travers agreed with him after seeing the final product. She flat out hated the film. Saving Mr. Banks gave the impression that Walt, through his charisma and working relationship with Travels, led her to the change in heart. If that's the story the filmmakers wanted to tell, fine, but that leaves them susceptible to criticism for legitimacies of the portrayals and creative choices made.

Sugarcoating Walt Disney for this film was not historical accuracy, it was dramatic embellishment. Then again, if the film was truly historically accurate, it would never have been made. The true story isn't good enough. It's actually quite bitter, but there's a middle ground somewhere between the bitter reality and the sugarcoated fiction final product.

 

[Matt_Black]

The SAG win is a much bigger representation of how the Oscar voting will go down.

Yeah, but SAG doesn't have a song category, do they?

 

[Tony Perkis]

Yeah, but SAG doesn't have a song category, do they?

I'm not going to argue point-for-point differences between one awarding presentation versus the other. I'm just using precursors to establish a best estimation of the Oscar winners. Going with a gut feeling just doesn't have the same credibility as predictions citing preceding awards.

 

[Matt_Black]

I'm not going to argue point-for-point differences between one awarding presentation versus the other. I'm just using precursors to establish a best estimation of the Oscar winners. Going with a gut feeling just doesn't have the same credibility as predictions citing preceding awards.

Truthiness comes from the gut!

 

[Magenta Panther]

The truth is that Travers hated the film and would not sign off on any further Mary Poppins films, so the impression that the film gives the audience is generally dishonest. It plays as if Walt Disney was right all along, and PL Travers just needed to see the final version on screen to understand that. That's not how it played out at a all, in reality.

In reality, he spent little-to-no time with Travers since he already had the rights. He left it up to the creative team to hammer out the detail for the final script approval clause.

Much of the film is embellished for dramatic purposes, which is fine. This is a fictional drama, not a documentary. But considering the Disney/Travers relationship was reportedly less than pleasant in reality, the decision to portray him a "practically perfect in every way" on film was a product of Disney damage control, not a true reflection of the real person.

That "she hated the film" is true...but she didn't hate it immediately. Not according to her biographer, Valeria Lawson, who actually spoke with Ms. Travers: And in the beginning, she was quite praising of the film, because she believed there was going to be a sequel. But Disney died in 1966, so that didn't happen. And as time went on, she got more and more annoyed with the film, and disliked it more and more, for being false to what she had created.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...0131220_1_saving-mr-p-l-travers-p-l-travers/2

So, given that fact, I think the "Banks" scripters were quite truthful in their portrayal of Travers' reaction to "Poppins". At first, she DID like it. But after time passed, and she grew more bitter and, well, weird, she started to dislike it and all that.

As for Walt going to visit Travers, well, apparently, Tom Hanks heard it differently:

Do you think the final conversation played out like we see in the movie?

I would love to have been privy to whatever that last meeting was, which did happen. I mean, he flew to London instantaneously. He might have just said, "Honey, you're gonna make a sh*tload of money." And that might have been enough to turn it around. I met Elmore Leonard, and I asked him, "What do you think about these movies that are made of your books?" And he said, "It's so hard to make a movie. God bless them just for trying." That's a really good attitude to have.

http://news.moviefone.com/2013/12/12/tom-hanks-saving-mr-banks/

 

[Tony Perkis]

That "she hated the film" is true...but she didn't hate it immediately. Not according to her biographer, Valeria Lawson, who actually spoke with Ms. Travers: And in the beginning, she was quite praising of the film, because she believed there was going to be a sequel. But Disney died in 1966, so that didn't happen. And as time went on, she got more and more annoyed with the film, and disliked it more and more, for being false to what she had created.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...0131220_1_saving-mr-p-l-travers-p-l-travers/2

So, given that fact, I think the "Banks" scripters were quite truthful in their portrayal of Travers' reaction to "Poppins". At first, she DID like it. But after time passed, and she grew more bitter and, well, weird, she started to dislike it and all that.

As for Walt going to visit Travers, well, apparently, Tom Hanks heard it differently:

Do you think the final conversation played out like we see in the movie?

I would love to have been privy to whatever that last meeting was, which did happen. I mean, he flew to London instantaneously. He might have just said, "Honey, you're gonna make a sh*tload of money." And that might have been enough to turn it around. I met Elmore Leonard, and I asked him, "What do you think about these movies that are made of your books?" And he said, "It's so hard to make a movie. God bless them just for trying." That's a really good attitude to have.

http://news.moviefone.com/2013/12/12/tom-hanks-saving-mr-banks/

There's ample evidence to support that Travers hated the film pretty immediately. Hell, she told Disney to take out the animation after the premiere. I'm willing to bet she endorsed the film in the press because she got 5% of its grosses, not because she slowly began disliking it.

http://www.hypable.com/2014/01/10/saving-mr-banks-mary-poppins-facts/

According to the screenwriter of the film, that scene where Disney flies to London to relate and convince Travers never happened. Pure fiction.

 

[Magenta Panther]

There's ample evidence to support that Travers hated the film pretty immediately. Hell, she told Disney to take out the animation after the premiere. I'm willing to bet she endorsed the film in the press because she got 5% of its grosses, not because she slowly began disliking it.

http://www.hypable.com/2014/01/10/saving-mr-banks-mary-poppins-facts/

According to the screenwriter of the film, that scene where Disney flies to London to relate and convince Travers never happened. Pure fiction.

MMmmmyeah. I think the biographer of Travers, WHO TALKED TO THE WOMAN, might have a bit more cred. As to the Hanks assertion, well, he must have heard what he heard from somewhere. Guess we'll never know for sure who's right...

 

[Californian Elitist]

It was reported that Travers left the movie premiere in tears because she was so upset with the film. It was immediate distaste for the film. Apparently she never forgave Walt Disney for what he did and never let him adapt another one of her books. She was approached to turn Poppins into a play, and she immediately shot it down. It took the guy promising to have no American input and to leave the Disney aspects out to finally convince her. That says a lot.

I agree, the movie sugar-coated it, especially the ending. The part where Walt Disney goes to visit Travers in London to finally persuade her never actually happened.

 

[Magenta Panther]

It was reported that Travers left the movie premiere in tears because she was so upset with the film. It was immediate distaste for the film. Apparently she never forgave Walt Disney for what he did and never let him adapt another one of her books. She was approached to turn Poppins into a play, and she immediately shot it down. It took the guy promising to have no American input and to leave the Disney aspects out to finally convince her. That says a lot.

I agree, the movie sugar-coated it, especially the ending. The part where Walt Disney goes to visit Travers in London to finally persuade her never actually happened.

Again, I refer you to the author of the Travers biography, who actually talked to the woman, rather than the hearsay you're quoting. Although yes, she hated the film....eventually. Likely because she got more bitter and weird as she aged, as her family has attested to. Hey, I bought the "SHE HATED THE FILM AT ONCE, SHE HATED THE KIDS SLIDING DOWN THE BANNISTER, DIDN'T APPROVE OF KIDS DOING THAT, HATED MR. BANKS PAJAMAS, (sic) ETC. ETC. until I read actual credible sources. You don't agree, take it up with Valeria Lawson. Or keep on believing hearsay. Your choice.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Again, I refer you to the author of the Travers biography, who actually talked to the woman, rather than the hearsay you're quoting. Although yes, she hated the film....eventually. Likely because she got more bitter and weird as she aged, as her family has attested to. Hey, I bought the "SHE HATED THE FILM AT ONCE, SHE HATED THE KIDS SLIDING DOWN THE BANNISTER, DIDN'T APPROVE OF KIDS DOING THAT, HATED MR. BANKS PAJAMAS, (sic) ETC. ETC. until I read actual credible sources. You don't agree, take it up with Valeria Lawson. Or keep on believing hearsay. Your choice.

Okay.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Again, I refer you to the author of the Travers biography, who actually talked to the woman, rather than the hearsay you're quoting. Although yes, she hated the film....eventually. Likely because she got more bitter and weird as she aged, as her family has attested to. Hey, I bought the "SHE HATED THE FILM AT ONCE, SHE HATED THE KIDS SLIDING DOWN THE BANNISTER, DIDN'T APPROVE OF KIDS DOING THAT, HATED MR. BANKS PAJAMAS, (sic) ETC. ETC. until I read actual credible sources. You don't agree, take it up with Valeria Lawson. Or keep on believing hearsay. Your choice.

A biography that is approved by the Travers estate is going to protect the interested parties. Going after Disney would have buried her and her estate.

I believe the countless reports that said she hated the film immediately.

And Hanks is not a credible source. He was directly involved in revising history with this film.

 

[Matt_Black]

Honestly, if anyone got "revised" and "sugarcoated" in this movie, it was Travers.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Honestly, if anyone got "revised" and "sugarcoated" in this movie, it was Travers.

I'm pretty sure most of us agree to this.