I’ve possibly said enough. I’ll let others join the dots.
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Orlando Becoming East Coast Headquarters for Disney Parks, Experiences, and Products
- Thread starter The Visionary Soul
- Start date
hopemax
Well-Known Member
In the parks, my Mom would see how fast the College Program kids changed from eager beavers to the same ambivalence as the full-time staff. People catch on real quick about what is expected and tolerated by their coworkers and more importantly their bosses.
If certain traits aren’t nurtured and others actively discouraged by management, the same bad attitude can develop in new people real easily because they don’t have the confidence and freedom to fight for the good stuff as old timers might have. It could get much worse, faster if everyone is just trying to keep their heads. If new people come in with big ideas and don’t find advocacy for those things, no progression, people stop thinking big. And the floor gets lowered if you go from people with real talent and expertise to lesser talent, untrained talent.
It’s sad, but it seems like in too many places quality is something that is assumed to just exist, so you can swap in and out at will. Not something that is rare, and takes commitment to identify and develop.
If certain traits aren’t nurtured and others actively discouraged by management, the same bad attitude can develop in new people real easily because they don’t have the confidence and freedom to fight for the good stuff as old timers might have. It could get much worse, faster if everyone is just trying to keep their heads. If new people come in with big ideas and don’t find advocacy for those things, no progression, people stop thinking big. And the floor gets lowered if you go from people with real talent and expertise to lesser talent, untrained talent.
It’s sad, but it seems like in too many places quality is something that is assumed to just exist, so you can swap in and out at will. Not something that is rare, and takes commitment to identify and develop.
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I see it all the time in my career field of software development. The idiots in upper management seem to think that a person who has been coding for 2 years is just as good as someone that's been doing it for 20 years. They seem to think that proper coding is easy to do. It's a skill that is honed over many years of experience, but that is lost on them. I would imagine that Imagineering is the same way to upper management.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
I would argue it happens in any industry that involves creativity and know-how.
trainplane3
Well-Known Member
I was talking to someone right when they started the phone calls. I asked "They're just shifting some WDI folks to FL, right?". Man, I wasn't ready for the answer the extent this was hitting the company. I was shocked how it wasn't being talked about in public. I was expecting some small layoffs (sadly) but to have FL and CA locations. Two large regions working together. What I was told was the opposite.
At the time the studios branch were the only people that were remotely safe, not sure if that changed.
Imagine working a upper-ish level management job in Glendale for 15+ years and being told after working remotely for quite a while "hey we need you to be in FL for at least 51% of your time or we can no longer employ you. Remote work isn't an option". I know layoffs happen but this is massive and they're basically gutting everything they can. We'll have a bunch of "yes men" left it seems.
Are they going to hire to fill the vacant positions? Barely, if any.
At that point I was told morale was on a downhill trend and it was only starting. It's not good.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
Talented people don't do the same job for 20 years without moving up.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
FTFY.
Or maybe some of us have been in management, and simply prefer to not go that route. I've been a manager multiple times (I was at the Director level in one company over several departments), but now that I'm nearing retirement, I prefer not to have to deal with the BS that comes from that, and just concentrate on software development. So much less stressful.
Well, while I have been doing this for well over 20 years, it hasn't been my only job, and I've done it for several companies - increasing my salary with each move. I get multiple phone calls and emails every week from people wanting to hire me, but no thanks, love where I'm at.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
I didn't mean you.
A lot of people have this warped perception that WDI is made up of artists and they're being screwed over by corporate bureaucrats. I think they fail to realize that WDI is, itself, full of corporate bureaucrats.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
And the part I bolded is way more important than many in higher positions realize. Money is part of it, yes, but there are many pieces that contribute to a person loving or hating their job.
Victoria and Alberts at Grand Floridian currently closed had staff that did the same jobs for years without moving up and were well compensated.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
Actually many people are quite happy rising up in the expertise track to a certain point and staying there. I’ve shared the story of my Mom’s store manager at Sears in the 90s. All he wanted was to be the store manager at that store. Sears wanted him to move to different stores every 2-3 years, in bigger markets because he was delivering numbers they liked. So he quit and sold paint at a hardware store. Why couldn’t he just have ran that store well for 10 years to prove himself instead of having to continually move up?
This is actually a thing at DH’s current company. Recognition that good, talented people don’t all want to be managers or even leads. They want to keep their hands on the product they enjoy, not managing people. Which is a different set of skills anyway. So they have career growth options that keep senior people in product.
Disone
Well-Known Member
There are few things that have Universal praise nowadays. That said I do feel Beauty and the Beast that Tokyo has been very well received. I personally did not get to go on it as it was still under construction during my visit there.
But let's compare the Beast's castle they built at Tokyo Disney for the attraction compared to the Beast's castle they built at WDW's New Fantasyland restaurant.
No I have not experienced it personally it looks great from YouTube and I do know two people who have experienced it and they call it the best dark ride they've ever been on. I asked specifically if it was better than Pooh's hunny hunt cuz I have been on it with them, and they said absolutely yes
Do we need to give James B. Stewart a call to write Disney War 2?
bcoachable
Well-Known Member
You think either of the Bobs would be as open to talk about the "Tea" as Eisner was?
Maybe one of these burnt to a crisp aformentioned/not willing to move Imagineers would be willing.... I know I'd give it a read.
The problem is a lot of Imagineering is now graphic design focused(if it looks good, than it must be appropriate, see the new Jungle Cruise poster art as an example) and people that can walk through attractions in the DISH. It is great, but there is a lot of fundamental things that seem gone and not much trust given to it. There was no degree, there was no SCAD nor anything prior. You had people that discovered Imagineering and theme park design and that is what they wanted. They frankensteined experiences and skillsets to commit to such things. There is nothing wrong with having great people form other disciplines, but a lot of the charm seems lost when the passion is more rare.
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Notes from Neverland
Well-Known Member
Still glad to see you in the conversation, even if the topic is a depressing one.
Inspired Figment
Well-Known Member
The only reason for that however is the artists who are there to defend & uphold the quality standards & integrity within the company are given measly table scraps and/or fired and the corporate bureaucrats that don’t give a crap are the ones who are promoted…
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
It has always been up to the "creatives" to sell their idea to the money. If they are successful the project flies, if they can't sell or it is a crap idea that won't tip the money hopper their way it goes to the dust bin. More than just dreaming up a concept they have to sell the concept, play the politics listening to the room, get the green light and sheppard the project to completion fighting cuts all the way to open.
It's always been that way, the current crop seems to be short on the creative end and the money is not dictating what gets built but if there were truly superior concepts they would get green lighted. Rehashed, reused, mediocre concepts are what they decided to do so that is what we get. You still buying tickets to that?
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