Orlando Becoming East Coast Headquarters for Disney Parks, Experiences, and Products

[Vegas Disney Fan]

So you’re basing that on one of the most expensive markets in the country to where Wayne Newton is the mayor?

…it could work.

however two things are often exaggerated: that corporate tax savings matter…and that cost of living is that much different.

not that they aren’t real…just exaggerated

Not Wayne Newton… Mayor Goodman, the wife of a former Mob lawyer (who was also the previous mayor), we hold our politicians to a high standard here.

Heck ya. A 1 bedroom/ 1 bath San Fran condo with on the street parking and a common laundromat shared with all that runs about $600K can get you a brand new custom built 4bed/2 bath house in Orlando.

Vegas is similarly priced to Orlando, 2 years ago a nice single family home in a nice neighborhood was $250k, now it’s $400k… still affordable compared to a million for the same home in LA or 1.5 million in SF though.

 

[el_super]

Recognizing that people's lives are effected by this, we've often said on here that Imagineering is too large. While I'm not anticipating anything positive out of this, it's conceivable that this could help timetables for projects.

.....what projects........???

They could have done layoffs in California and not move everyone. To me this is a combo layoff/huge organizational change/money savings. If you want to totally redo the organizational structure it’s easier to start somewhere fresh and try to eliminate as much “this is how we used to do it” (as in SOPs, not creativity) as possible.

Yeah pretty much. But they are also ensuring that those that do go are the most loyal to the company right?

Just to point out though, that overall, there isn't going to be a huge cost savings to the company, at least not one realized for years. They are getting a huge tax break/subsidy from Florida that will help offset a lot of the construction costs though.

 

[hopemax]

I'm sure Disney is saving on the cost of everything from the janitorial service, to the company they call when the HVAC needs service.

For employees... DH is in tech and has been laid off 5 times, so things like state unemployment, how fast you're likely to find new permanent work, etc. are all things that go into the calculation. So if you are living in Central FL, and Disney decides to scale down after a big project, then what do you do? Orlando isn't SoCal in terms of similar employment opportunities. Universal Creative can't absorb everyone. Everyone got a good look at the FL unemployment system fiasco. The housing opportunities are great initially, but the way people change jobs either by their choice or their employers. Is there more going on creatively in Orlando than it seems? Accountants and a lot of supporting positions, I can see. But if your skillset is creative, are you just gambling that you won't have to move to Atlanta or Miami to find a proper replacement in 5 years?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm sure Disney is saving on the cost of everything from the janitorial service, to the company they call when the HVAC needs service.

For employees... DH is in tech and has been laid off 5 times, so things like state unemployment, how fast you're likely to find new permanent work, etc. are all things that go into the calculation. So if you are living in Central FL, and Disney decides to scale down after a big project, then what do you do? Orlando isn't SoCal in terms of similar employment opportunities. Universal Creative can't absorb everyone. Everyone got a good look at the FL unemployment system fiasco. The housing opportunities are great initially, but the way people change jobs either by their choice or their employers. Is there more going on creatively in Orlando than it seems? Accountants and a lot of supporting positions, I can see. But if your skillset is creative, are you just gambling that you won't have to move to Atlanta or Miami to find a proper replacement in 5 years?

Your perception of Florida is about 5 to 10 years outdated. It's still not as "sexy" as California, but it's made great progress recently. Schools have improved, roads are good, housing is good, recreation is good, taxes are amazing. If it wasn't for the damn weather, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

 

[hopemax]

Your perception of Florida is about 5 to 10 years outdated. It's still not as "sexy" as California, but it's made great progress recently. Schools have improved, roads are good, housing is good, recreation is good, taxes are amazing. If it wasn't for the damn weather, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

I didn't ask about those. I asked about replacement creative opportunities. And the unemployment system which we saw crash and burn only 18 months ago. My Dad's lived in Winter Garden for 16 years, so I am aware of the rest. But schools, roads, housing and taxes don't pay the bills.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Yeah pretty much. But they are also ensuring that those that do go are the most loyal to the company right?

If it’s similar to AAAs move they probably interviewed and already knew who would likely move and likely stay before they even made the decision.

Moves like this take years to set up and they seem to factor in everything, including attrition, before making the decision.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Long term I see it helping project timelines vs flying people across the country for certain milestones/testing and design.

Short term it will offset a lot of projects.

Projects at the Disneyland Resort weren’t being completed much faster than they were at Walt Disney World.

Is there more going on creatively in Orlando than it seems?

There is. More and more companies involved in themed entertainment have also been at least opening offices in Orlando and I wouldn’t be surprised to see more open with Disney’s move.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And the unemployment system which we saw crash and burn only 18 months ago.

Nobody picks where they want to live based on the way state unemployment IT infrastructure performs during a once-in-a-century-pandemic, least of all white-collar professionals making $150K+.

Projects at the Disneyland Resort weren’t being completed much faster than they were at Walt Disney World.

There is. More and more companies involved in themed entertainment have also been at least opening offices in Orlando and I wouldn’t be surprised to see more open with Disney’s move.

+1.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Feels like the knife is getting awfully close to the bone with WDI...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If you're a family that wants a very nice 4 bedroom house, you're probably looking at $500,000 in central Florida and $1.5 million in Southern California.

Vegas is similarly priced to Orlando, 2 years ago a nice single family home in a nice neighborhood was $250k, now it’s $400k… still affordable compared to a million for the same home in LA or 1.5 million in SF though.

But it ends there…you’re not saving a hell of a lot on daily costs beyond real estate. And what company we talking about whose employees are buying $400,$500, $1.5 million houses?

…I must be on the wrong board?

there’s a reason why Orlando has a huge rental market per capita. It isn’t “space” like San Francisco, Boston or DC.

also…you pointed out why Orlando is dangerous in real estate. Orlando is subject to east coast housing bubbles. “Bought for $250…now “worth” $400”. Translates to a sale price of about $180 if you are in a housing bubble and bazooka Joe blows it.
Don’t count those chickens.

florida’s housing declines are rapid and violent. And it will happen again.

.....what projects........???



Yeah pretty much. But they are also ensuring that those that do go are the most loyal to the company right?

Just to point out though, that overall, there isn't going to be a huge cost savings to the company, at least not one realized for years. They are getting a huge tax break/subsidy from Florida that will help offset a lot of the construction costs though.

Mmmmmm….hmmmm

Long term I see it helping project timelines vs flying people across the country for certain milestones/testing and design.

Short term it will offset a lot of projects.

Do we know that it’s “problems” that create those timelines?

I'm sure Disney is saving on the cost of everything from the janitorial service, to the company they call when the HVAC needs service.

For employees... DH is in tech and has been laid off 5 times, so things like state unemployment, how fast you're likely to find new permanent work, etc. are all things that go into the calculation. So if you are living in Central FL, and Disney decides to scale down after a big project, then what do you do? Orlando isn't SoCal in terms of similar employment opportunities. Universal Creative can't absorb everyone. Everyone got a good look at the FL unemployment system fiasco. The housing opportunities are great initially, but the way people change jobs either by their choice or their employers. Is there more going on creatively in Orlando than it seems? Accountants and a lot of supporting positions, I can see. But if your skillset is creative, are you just gambling that you won't have to move to Atlanta or Miami to find a proper replacement in 5 years?

Magic 8ball says your instincts sound correct

Your perception of Florida is about 5 to 10 years outdated. It's still not as "sexy" as California, but it's made great progress recently. Schools have improved, roads are good, housing is good, recreation is good, taxes are amazing. If it wasn't for the damn weather, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Your perception of how great it is is in the future…or in Connecticut

Lots of defense industry jobs near the Orlando area as well. It's not just themeparks.

About 80-90% directly descended from vacations…they just will never admit it locally.

I didn't ask about those. I asked about replacement creative opportunities. And the unemployment system which we saw crash and burn only 18 months ago. My Dad's lived in Winter Garden for 16 years, so I am aware of the rest. But schools, roads, housing and taxes don't pay the bills.

A common false equivalency propagated by those that have never worked to live in Orlando. There’s a price for “living on vacation”.

Nobody picks where they want to live based on the way state unemployment IT infrastructure performs during a once-in-a-century-pandemic, least of all white-collar professionals making $150K+.


+1.

…it’s like you should get the deal with florida…but trip right before you get to the endzone.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Feels like the knife is getting awfully close to the bone with WDI...

they’re not building anyway…is my hunch. Olc will have to throw them a bone

 

[Lilofan]

Lots of defense industry jobs near the Orlando area as well. It's not just themeparks.

Lockheed Martin is near OBT/Sand Lake near I-Drive. Not the safest area day or night and those ladies in their Daisy Dukes on the main sidewalks are always looking for customers however a private road one way in one way out goes into the Lockheed area.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Lockheed Martin is near OBT/Sand Lake near I-Drive. Not the safest area day or night and those ladies in their Daisy Dukes on the main sidewalks are always looking for customers however a private road one way in one way out goes into the Lockheed area.

I have a large Lockheed research lab about 2 miles away…

thing about them is they aren’t “growth”…they don’t open new branches like Chick-fil-A

Lockheed in Orlando also has a large big dog amusement park being built outside their front windows as well

 

[el_super]

There is. More and more companies involved in themed entertainment have also been at least opening offices in Orlando and I wouldn’t be surprised to see more open with Disney’s move.

Yeah but how much of it is the same level of work? There used to be a lot of overlap between Hollywood set design/studio work and Imagineering. I know there is a bit of that popping up around Orlando with the explosion of Halloween events and maze construction, but those are still somewhat niche and only occur seasonally. With China being somewhat uncertain, it doesn't seem like there are going to be a lot of new theme parks being constructed by either Disney or Universal anytime soon, so once Epic Universe is done... then what?

That all being said, I guess it's worth mentioning that Hollywood is also seemingly in a rush to get out of the physical design business. There is a benefit to pushing screen based attractions, because digital 3D artists can be used now interchangeably between big films, video games and theme parks.

 

[flynnibus]

Nobody picks where they want to live based on the way state unemployment IT infrastructure performs during a once-in-a-century-pandemic, least of all white-collar professionals making $150K+.

Nitpicking a bunch there? You make it sound like no one has ever considered "the all or nothing" risk of an area when moving for a job.. where they realize there is a risk of being exposed if that job doesn't end up as expected.

It is very much a factor to consider "what else is there..." when looking at an area and what it means if your job crashes. If the only other job in the area is the hardware store and McDonalds... you notice that your comfy manufacturing or satelite office location really is an island... and that becomes a liability when considering that job/area.

Especially if you work in an industry that known to be volatile

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

But it ends there…you’re not saving a hell of a lot on daily costs beyond real estate. And what company we talking about whose employees are buying $400,$500, $1.5 million houses?

…I must be on the wrong board?

That’s a 30 year expense for most people though, $20,000 minimum down payment + $2,500 monthly mortgage payment vs $75,000 minimum down payment + $10,000 monthly mortgage.

For a middle class or upper middle class family making $50k-150k a year one is doable, the other is impossible.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That’s a 30 year expense for most people though, $20,000 minimum down payment + $2,500 monthly mortgage payment vs $75,000 minimum down payment + $10,000 monthly mortgage.

For a middle class or upper middle class family making $50k-150k a year one is doable, the other is impossible.

I understand that…what I’m saying is that Disney doesn’t pay a whole hell of a lot…and has pretty high turn. People tend to overstate how big of a deal housing is in Orlando.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yeah but how much of it is the same level of work? There used to be a lot of overlap between Hollywood set design/studio work and Imagineering. I know there is a bit of that popping up around Orlando with the explosion of Halloween events and maze construction, but those are still somewhat niche and only occur seasonally. With China being somewhat uncertain, it doesn't seem like there are going to be a lot of new theme parks being constructed by either Disney or Universal anytime soon, so once Epic Universe is done... then what?

That all being said, I guess it's worth mentioning that Hollywood is also seemingly in a rush to get out of the physical design business. There is a benefit to pushing screen based attractions, because digital 3D artists can be used now interchangeably between big films, video games and theme parks.

There isn’t a lot of movement between themed entertainment and film.

How is doing show set design at AOA or Adirondack or Universal Creative not the same level as doing show set design at Walt Disney Imagineering? How is doing AV design at Electrosonic not the same level?

And if people don’t think it’s the same level, many of them already relocate somewhat frequently for projects. A number of people did relocate from California to Florida for Universal Studios Beijing and Epic Universe with some again relocating to Beijing. They did that without the prospects of a much larger Disney presence when those projects ended, either planning to move back, stay or move on to somewhere else. There are always lulls between major projects like a new Disney or Universal park and people find work in different ways. Ever notice that the annual TEA attendance report is actually the Theme Index / Museum Index? Did you know that LAX won a Thea Award? It’s not just the major parks, but museums, brand experiences, retail, hospitality, small theme parks, family entertainment centers and more that are served by the themed design industry.

 

[ULPO46]

I've said this and I will say it again, I am not a big fan of this project. A lot of great talent is not up for the move. I didn't mind being sent around the world for Disney, as long as I had an office in a central location the majority of the year in a place where God forbid we have another round of layoffs we have other places to go. Not every Imagineer wants to work for Seas, Six, Merlin, or Uni. I am one of those included who would either go private or work for an Architectural firm.

That said here's a beautiful thread from one of my closest friends, this hits close to home, close to heart and honestly does not lie about how low Morale is at Imagineering. Loosing legends like Joe because of their impatience with corporate sucks and hurts morale all over campus.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I've said this and I will say it again, I am not a big fan of this project. A lot of great talent is not up for the move. I didn't mind being sent around the world for Disney, as long as I had an office in a central location the majority of the year in a place where God forbid we have another round of layoffs we have other places to go. Not every Imagineer wants to work for Seas, Six, Merlin, or Uni. I am one of those included who would either go private or work for an Architectural firm.

That said here's a beautiful thread from one of my closest friends, this hits close to home, close to heart and honestly does not lie about how low Morale is at Imagineering. Loosing legends like Joe because of their impatience with corporate sucks and hurts morale all over campus.

Thank you for sharing…the personal take is appreciated.

I do feel it’s not this easy - However - because of the realities of what TWDC is today.

WDI has to straddle the line between art and efficiency…which means timelines and budgets have to be advantageous to the central committee more than has happened - it seems.