Original Alice in Wonderland Ride

[Okee68]

Some of you might remember a post I made here back in September or October explaining that the reason some of the sound effects in WDW's Toad were so loud is because they may have been produced by physical means as opposed to playing off reels. I just discovered that this was actually the case for at least the railroad crossing bells.


After many years of watching these backwards-facing POVs, I've only now noticed the silver set of bells visible on Track A at 1:47, complete with the hammer repeatedly striking on time with the ringing.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

How ingenious and immersive

 

[Miru]

Ah, a good old trick from the Pretzel era. This is something that Disney, Universal, and possibly even Busch would never do today. Not in the slightest.

 

[Okee68]

@Rich T I have a few random questions about the original Toad Hall scene, for classified scientific research purposes.

First, I was wondering if the human butler at the end of the scene would tilt over as the car approached it, similar to the ice delivery man in Florida's Toad. His arm and/or tea tray appears to have been animated, but I'm not sure if that would have prevented a full-flat tilting motion or not.

Second, I've been considering the possibility that a set of doors was placed under the pointed arch between MacBadger and the pantry/butler room, mainly because I can hear what sounds like the squeak of crash doors opening in that exact part of the audio recording.

Third, going back to your description of MacBadger's prop as having been off-model, I was wondering how exactly it differed from his normal appearance. Are there any specific details about the prop you remember?

 

[Rich T]

@Rich T I have a few random questions about the original Toad Hall scene, for classified scientific research purposes.

First, I was wondering if the human butler at the end of the scene would tilt over as the car approached it, similar to the ice delivery man in Florida's Toad. His arm and/or tea tray appears to have been animated, but I'm not sure if that would have prevented a full-flat tilting motion or not.

Second, I've been considering the possibility that a set of doors was placed under the pointed arch between MacBadger and the pantry/butler room, mainly because I can hear what sounds like the squeak of crash doors opening in that exact part of the audio recording.

Third, going back to your description of MacBadger's prop as having been off-model, I was wondering how exactly it differed from his normal appearance. Are there any specific details about the prop you remember?

View attachment 558771

The butler swung away to the right, timed to appear as though the car had hit him.

I’m 99% sure there were show doors opening into the butler hall (now the weasel hall.) I usually didn’t look ahead toward the doors, because I was generally too busy staring at the thing behind the desk and trying... really trying to see MacBadger’s face there.

Because it looked nothing like him in that stage of the ride’s life. It had been repainted off-model to the point where it looked like a plump little human Scottish grandfather (a really tiny human) with a round human nose. Except for the clothes and spectacles, there was no MacBadger left there.

 

[Okee68]

The butler swung away to the right, timed to appear as though the car had hit him.

I’m 99% sure there were show doors opening into the butler hall (now the weasel hall.) I usually didn’t look ahead toward the doors, because I was generally too busy staring at the thing behind the desk and trying... really trying to see MacBadger’s face there.

Because it looked nothing like him in that stage of the ride’s life. It had been repainted off-model to the point where it looked like a plump little human Scottish grandfather (a really tiny human) with a round human nose. Except for the clothes and spectacles, there was no MacBadger left there.

Using VirtualToad as a reference, and going by your recollection of MacBadger's outraged expression, I managed to whip up this horrid little homunculus in MS Paint. No badger nose, no badger stripe. Just pain.

And a funny thing happened concerning my question about the butler: Immediately after I made that post, I noticed what's clearly a black breakaway board at the bottom-right corner of that photo, which is attached to the legs of the thick lad. Upon seeing this, I was hit with the realization on my own terms that the butler was probably a swing-away prop.

 

[Rich T]

Using VirtualToad as a reference, and going by your recollection of MacBadger's outraged expression, I managed to whip up this horrid little homunculus in MS Paint. No badger nose, no badger stripe. Just pain.

View attachment 558794

LOL!!! That is nearly perfect!

 

[Okee68]

LOL!!! That is nearly perfect!

I had actually envisioned the prop this way even before I asked for the specifics; your answer only confirmed it. Just a weird, disgruntled little human with badger ears and white mutton chops.

 

[Clover Bailey]

@Rich T I'm curious, I did this drawing of what the Doorknob crash door in the 1958 Alice in Wonderland may have looked like, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on how accurate it is? If there's any details I missed I'd really appreciate them.

 

[Rich T]

@Rich T I'm curious, I did this drawing of what the Doorknob crash door in the 1958 Alice in Wonderland may have looked like, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on how accurate it is? If there's any details I missed I'd really appreciate them.View attachment 558838View attachment 558839View attachment 558840

That’s excellent and nearly spot-on! The only 2 suggestions I’d make would be:

1) Make the eyes brass-colored to match the rest of him instead of the white eyes he had in the film. The all-brass look of the original ride’s doorknob was also used in the picture books of the time:

2) In the center of the black keyhole mouth, there was a keyhole-shaped cutout opening a bit less than 1/2 the area of the whole mouth. This gave a quick preview of the flower garden ahead and made a cool bookend with the green keyhole painted on the ride’s final crash door.

But even without those minor details, you’ve done a fantastic re-creation! Great work!!!

 

[Okee68]

That’s excellent and nearly spot-on! The only 2 suggestions I’d make would be:

1) Make the eyes brass-colored to match the rest of him instead of the white eyes he had in the film. The all-brass look of the original ride’s doorknob was also used in the picture books of the time:
View attachment 559068
2) In the center of the black keyhole mouth, there was a keyhole-shaped cutout opening a bit less than 1/2 the area of the whole mouth. This gave a quick preview of the flower garden ahead and made a cool bookend with the green keyhole painted on the ride’s final crash door.

But even without those minor details, you’ve done a fantastic re-creation! Great work!!!

I was wondering where that detail with the small keyhole opening in Don Carson's model came from. I think he has access to a handful of photos that aren't available online, one of which probably shows this. Was the doorknob's actual doorknob a separate, protruding cutout angled downward, or was it just painted on flat?

 

[RedzRobinz]

That’s excellent and nearly spot-on! The only 2 suggestions I’d make would be:

1) Make the eyes brass-colored to match the rest of him instead of the white eyes he had in the film. The all-brass look of the original ride’s doorknob was also used in the picture books of the time:
View attachment 559068
2) In the center of the black keyhole mouth, there was a keyhole-shaped cutout opening a bit less than 1/2 the area of the whole mouth. This gave a quick preview of the flower garden ahead and made a cool bookend with the green keyhole painted on the ride’s final crash door.

But even without those minor details, you’ve done a fantastic re-creation! Great work!!!

Wow you sure know everything about the original rides

 

[Clover Bailey]

I was wondering where that detail with the small keyhole opening in Don Carson's model came from. I think he has access to a handful of photos that aren't available online, one of which probably shows this. Was the doorknob's actual doorknob a separate, protruding cutout angled downward, or was it just painted on flat?

Do you think we'll ever get to see those photos? I hope we do, eventually.

 

[Okee68]

I finally got around to fixing that unintelligible Wikipedia section on the 1955 Peter Pan ride. This is pretty mediocre and rudimentary, but good lord did that original draft need to go.

 

[Clover Bailey]

I've always been curious, what was up with the park during the New Fantasyland project? Was Fantasyland actually closed off for a whole year at Disneyland? I couldn't imagine modern Imagineering pulling off something on that scale nowadays, closing the most popular section of the park for that long.

 

[Okee68]

I've always been curious, what was up with the park during the New Fantasyland project? Was Fantasyland actually closed off for a whole year at Disneyland? I couldn't imagine modern Imagineering pulling off something on that scale nowadays, closing the most popular section of the park for that long.

That's right: The majority of Fantasyland was closed from mid-1982 until May 1983, with the Snow White/theatre area having been closed even earlier in December 1981, and Alice not opening until April 1984.

 

[Okee68]

The classic blacklight Toad photo, still the best interior shot of the original ride by a landslide:

I've had this image saved for seven years now, and for the life of me I have no idea where it came from; probably some long-deleted Flickr album. Reverse searching the photo brings up nothing more than a handful of inferior-resolution copies. There's also the really weird edited scan from the LongForgottenHauntedMansion blog, in which the woman is digitally removed:

This has always bothered me. Why was she wiped from the image? You can even still make out her purple silhouette, which was filled in using recolored scenery from this other photo:

Such a bizarre edit all around. What was the point of it?

 

[Sharon&Susan]

The classic blacklight Toad photo, still the best interior shot of the original ride by a landslide:
View attachment 563639
I've had this image saved for seven years now, and for the life of me I have no idea where it came from; probably some long-deleted Flickr album. Reverse searching the photo brings up nothing more than a handful of inferior-resolution copies. There's also the really weird edited scan from the LongForgottenHauntedMansion blog, in which the woman is digitally removed:
View attachment 563640
This has always bothered me. Why was she wiped from the image? You can even still make out her purple silhouette, which was filled in using recolored scenery from this other photo:
View attachment 563642
Such a bizarre edit all around. What was the point of it?

I know that photo was in the souvenir book Disneyland Then, Now, and Forever if that's what you mean.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

The classic blacklight Toad photo, still the best interior shot of the original ride by a landslide:
View attachment 563639
I've had this image saved for seven years now, and for the life of me I have no idea where it came from; probably some long-deleted Flickr album. Reverse searching the photo brings up nothing more than a handful of inferior-resolution copies. There's also the really weird edited scan from the LongForgottenHauntedMansion blog, in which the woman is digitally removed:
View attachment 563640
This has always bothered me. Why was she wiped from the image? You can even still make out her purple silhouette, which was filled in using recolored scenery from this other photo:
View attachment 563642
Such a bizarre edit all around. What was the point of it?

Random thought, but in the last photo I love how you can see the painted-on silhouette of the train guy. Old school classic dark ride effect which was used on a lot of older versions of the Fantasyland rides (even the '80s versions) but is less common now. Tokyo still makes full use of that effect in most of their rides.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Maybe the Female was edited out because her hair blended with the background.