TropicalFig8
Active Member
So glad the Orange Bird is back.
I hope the Dreamfinder will return as well in the future.
I hope the Dreamfinder will return as well in the future.
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Orange Bird Back at Sunshine Tree Terrace in the Magic Kingdom!
- Thread starter WDWFigment
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Tigger1988
Well-Known Member
Or they complain that everything is "Walmartized" and there's nothing unique between Disneyland and WDW merch.
Then when WDW gives something unique and specific to the parks they complain that it's not an E-Ticket (as if the discussion at TDO was ever between Orange Bird or a new ride).
Some people just love to wallow in their own misery. Nothing Disney does will ever be enough. New rides? Well those aren't the rides we want. New offerings? Why didn't we get THIS instead? Whine, whine, whine.
lnsemsf
Well-Known Member
So are they eventually going to send Orange Bird to Universal in exchange for a slightly better retired character?
And yet, Duffy is most popular in the park where we see the best theming Disney has ever accomplished -- DisneySea. It is really odd to see the incredible theming juxtaposed against the most successfull pure marketing creation. Of course, the fact that DisneySea is such a triumph despite Duffy being everywhere shows that marketing initiatives, no matter how brazen, don't necessarily ruin things.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
This keeps getting brought up. Who is saying the bird should be exchanged for a new E-ticket?
misterID
Well-Known Member
OR...
You and Florida Dreamin could actually read what was said and not make things up...
Tigger1988
Well-Known Member
Newsflash. This isn't the only place on the web opinions on this topic have been expressed.
Atomicmickey
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify--I actually think this is a great conversation and not whining at all. The dynamics of theming is a point of endless fascination for me, and I think it's been discussed here earnestly.
This is anything but negative--it's constructive discussion about what the parks are, and the various things that they could and should be.
The point is the poster who is not fond of Orange Bird has some very good solid reasons why, and isn't just whining. They're actually really thinking about the space and the experience. I value that sort of chatter on a board like this, let's keep it up.
See above. No, the comments haven't suggested that the choice was Orange Bird or E-ticket, but they have said that we shouldn't be happy about this, and should hold out for something big (e.g., an E-ticket) instead, as if happiness/excitement is limited, and shouldn't be wasted on something so trivial.
Agreed.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Ok, I see your point. There should be no maximum allowed amount of happiness for a lifetime, which you have to store up to only use once in a while. If this Orange Bird makes you happy, then I am happy for you. You in a broad sense, not you in a specific sense. Though, if you are specifically happy, then all the better.
I am going to move off of talking for anyone else. For me, the Orange Bird is not a major event. It doesn't move the needle. If people are happy it's back, then by all means, enjoy it. IMO, it is not really a step in the right direction, nor is it a step back. It is an appeal to nostalgia, which is nice, I like nostalgia. I just don't like the sales pitch that it is a big deal for the MK. To me, a big deal and a step forward for the MK would be, as I said earlier in the thread, a working laughing place, or an operating Aunt Polly's instead of vending machines.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I completely agree that it is simply two different means of looking at the situation. This is a case where, when we have hindsight, I would love for somebody to be able to bring this up and show me how I was flat out wrong.
Not to derail, but while I do dislike the Jolly Holiday Bakery being on Main Street, USA the aspects I dislike most, which relates to this discussion has to do with its connection to Mary Poppins. The bakery is named for a vibrant scene, the most fantastic in the film, and yet all we get is some decorations. There is no substance there. We do not get to join in on the Jolly Holiday, we just get to be reminded of it all. The bakery did not get a Mary Poppins theme because it creates a compelling experience, but because it needed to be "Disney." The Sunshine Tree Terrace is now "Disney."
Thanks. :wave:
Breaking theme in many ways makes the theme, such as not having to be concerned about getting a tropical disease while in Adventureland. I think the Orange Bird is a part of the fabric of Walt Disney World. It made it unique and it was very representative of EPCOT. It was a symbol of the good neighbor relationship that Disney was trying to establish with the local community and the state. It was a quirk that did make for something and often times the deliberate, calculated quirks are what really makes something. A big problem I see right now (regarding other little thematic breaks) is that everything and anything can be that quirk which is not quite true to the reality, and its just as people have long said, "When everything is special, nothing is special."
At Walt Disney World, I would think those are the best themed places, but not because they feature the visible wear and tear on the places. I think there were choices of materiality made in the building of the Magic Kingdom which have hurt the park. They're committed to their vision and I think the lands of the Magic Kingdom are just as capable of being just as emotionally compelling, but the constant addition of thematic breaks and quirks, and "magic" aimed at children have diluted the power of the park's vision of these places.
As for EPCOT Center, I am not so against lands being visible as I do not really view the park as being themed in the same manner. I see nothing wrong with viewing the pavilions for what they are, Showcase pavilions. They are not supposed to be focused on the past or bring you to those places, but transcend time and boundaries.
Side note, I too have had people think I was touring the world because I posted a bunch of unedited, but architecturally focused, images of World Showcase and Disney's Animal Kingdom on my Facebook page. I even had them labelled properly!
So you say about a post from the guy who runs a Walt Disney World dedicated site.
Who is saying the Orange Bird is stupid? In my first post I admitted that the Orange Bird Mouseketeer Ears will very likely be the next in my collection (I get a pair every time I go to a Disneyland). Even in xdan0920's post, I do not see him belittling anybody. I see the discussion as being more about the means than the end. I do not see the Orange Bird as a problem, what concerns me is the why this actually happened, because I think in the long run it will create its own, bigger problems that will outweigh all of the little things that get brought back in the process.
njDizFan
Well-Known Member
Like an idiot I have spent the last 2 hours at work(my boss loves me) thinking about exactly how I feel about the Orange bird situation.
On one hand, I think it's crazy that people are rejoicing the return of a character that is bascially a paid advertisement. This was not like bringing back Dreamfinder(which was made by Disney for disney), the character was created in conjunction with the Florida Citrus Growers to promote a product...plain and simple. How would we feel if Disney decided to do this with a new third party today? How would you feel about a guy dancing around lampooning as a giant cup of Dunkin donuts coffee? What if Kellogg had a deal with Disney back in the day and had a meet and greet with Snap Crackle and Pop...would the same sentimate resonate? Not to mention the thematic discrepancies being in Adventureland and the negative connotation of the related Anita Bryant scandel.
On the surface this comes off as just a merch money grab, trying to push our nostalgia buttons and profiting off a cute little character.
On the other hand, simply why not? It is a nice enough story, trying to help the underdeveloped Central Fla commerce with a great product and promoting healthy living(in a way). People seem to really like remembering things they enjoyed in the past and after all it's a harmless and sentimental retro niche character overlooked by most people in the parks.
Is this a good thing that Disney has done? It's not like this is impeding production of any exapansions, so I guess as long as people are enjoying the return of a tasty beverage and cute character, I will conclude that it's not a bad thing but definately nothing to excite me personally.
On one hand, I think it's crazy that people are rejoicing the return of a character that is bascially a paid advertisement. This was not like bringing back Dreamfinder(which was made by Disney for disney), the character was created in conjunction with the Florida Citrus Growers to promote a product...plain and simple. How would we feel if Disney decided to do this with a new third party today? How would you feel about a guy dancing around lampooning as a giant cup of Dunkin donuts coffee? What if Kellogg had a deal with Disney back in the day and had a meet and greet with Snap Crackle and Pop...would the same sentimate resonate? Not to mention the thematic discrepancies being in Adventureland and the negative connotation of the related Anita Bryant scandel.
On the surface this comes off as just a merch money grab, trying to push our nostalgia buttons and profiting off a cute little character.
On the other hand, simply why not? It is a nice enough story, trying to help the underdeveloped Central Fla commerce with a great product and promoting healthy living(in a way). People seem to really like remembering things they enjoyed in the past and after all it's a harmless and sentimental retro niche character overlooked by most people in the parks.
Is this a good thing that Disney has done? It's not like this is impeding production of any exapansions, so I guess as long as people are enjoying the return of a tasty beverage and cute character, I will conclude that it's not a bad thing but definately nothing to excite me personally.
I haven't seen the sales pitch that suggests it is (or should be considered) a big deal. I agree that it isn't. It's posted on the blog, where changes like this should be mentioned.
invader
Well-Known Member
I exaggerated a bit just to get the point across, of course people weren't saying it's stupid but that they just didn't see the point of it. Much like your opinion. All I have to say is that it's a good thing. I've seen (and heard) people get excited over an Orange Bird T-Shirt, which I thought was crazy. It adds to the some-what tropical environment of Adventureland and brings back a cute little-guy most of us have seen in the past or grown up with.. If it can also make TWDC some money and help build and create nostalgic memories like some of use have with the Orange Bird in the past how can it be such a bad thing?
~ FD
puntagordabob
Well-Known Member
Adventureland has been having some good Loving recently and I salute those responsible!
I cannot find any reason that anyone would be negative about these changes in Adventureland thus far.... they have all been Great Changes up to this point in time.....
Atomicmickey
Well-Known Member
Well, this is great stuff. I’m spending a whole chunk of my mental day trying to think through this Orange Bird issue as it pertains to Theming, history, etc. Wow, this is the sort of thing that I love.
I really do see where you’re coming from. Not to derail, but isn’t Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom one of the most crazy examples of exactly the sort of thing you’re cautioning against? Characters out of place, video screens, people lined up looking at a wall, I could go on and on. The thing is, in context of what we’re discussing, whether or not the game is any fun or not (and I haven’t played it, so who knows, I might like it), there is the larger question of whether the parameters of design at WDW “permit” it.
I’d say, no, they really don’t. So SOTMK is a bigger issue than Orange Bird. At least Orange Bird has a bit of the gravitas of history behind it. You rightly point out that during his original tenure, there was more “meaning” behind it. There was a reason for him to be there, and that reason organically flowed from the actual building of the park. In this instance the reason flows from Nostalgia, and as I’ve said “meta-theming”, where self-reference becomes a sort of sub-theme in and of itself. At what point does the park become an Escher-loop, an endless topology? Why is Orange Bird there? “Well, Johnny, once there was a reason, now he’s just there to reference that reason. Mostly so Disney Nerds will stop and buy a shirt. They’ll explain what it used to mean to others, and we’ll sell more shirts.”
But, the extent to which that approach is folded in to the current environment is an interesting debate, one that has actually spilled out into Suburban America as shopping malls and new developments try to “inhabit” architectural tropes from the cultural zeitgeist and create new places that aren’t new. Beyond New Urbanism, we’ve got malls trying to look like Italy, or the seaside, or other places. And again—this debate points itself squarely back at WDW and what they decide is appropriate. Or does it? I don’t know that people look to Disney any more for leadership in these matters.
What we’re seeing happen with CarsLand, Wizarding World,—and, probably AvatarLand represents, I think, where things are heading, entire lands thematically unified in this way. They’re the junior stepchildren of the approach taken in Asia and Africa. So, that sort of thing is happening.
What to do with our old buddies, the lands in MK, though? In a lot of ways, they’re a patchwork quilt already, retrofitted, and with plenty of thematic breaks, quirks, and, ugh, you’re right “magic” sometimes seemingly unceremoniously plopped in. Well, on one hand, that’s what happens to “older neighborhoods” that take on the patina of time and space. On the other hand, wow, that isn’t what a Disney theme park is about. It’s not supposed to get thematically shabby.
So, it seems, I’ve come to the idea of Nostalgia as a theme. The idea is—rather than think “I’m in a jungle”, when sitting and looking around Adventureland, I’d think “wow, I’m in . . . Walt Disney World, as it was in 1971!” A strange—and yet in some ways for me, compelling thing to consider. What I wouldn’t give to see the subs in the lagoon again, for example. Or Horizons. I am yearning for a past that is receding as fast as Main Street was when Walt built Disneyland. Something odd and yet comforting to consider.
Orange Bird is an anachronism—and inappropriate juxtaposition in this jungle-themed context. There’s enough there for me to give him a pass, even knowing that.
I know one thing. When I visit the park next, I’m going to get a citrus swirl. I’m going to find a bench. I’m going to sit in the sun and me and Orange Bird are going to have a chat about things. There’s lots to talk about.
I really do see where you’re coming from. Not to derail, but isn’t Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom one of the most crazy examples of exactly the sort of thing you’re cautioning against? Characters out of place, video screens, people lined up looking at a wall, I could go on and on. The thing is, in context of what we’re discussing, whether or not the game is any fun or not (and I haven’t played it, so who knows, I might like it), there is the larger question of whether the parameters of design at WDW “permit” it.
I’d say, no, they really don’t. So SOTMK is a bigger issue than Orange Bird. At least Orange Bird has a bit of the gravitas of history behind it. You rightly point out that during his original tenure, there was more “meaning” behind it. There was a reason for him to be there, and that reason organically flowed from the actual building of the park. In this instance the reason flows from Nostalgia, and as I’ve said “meta-theming”, where self-reference becomes a sort of sub-theme in and of itself. At what point does the park become an Escher-loop, an endless topology? Why is Orange Bird there? “Well, Johnny, once there was a reason, now he’s just there to reference that reason. Mostly so Disney Nerds will stop and buy a shirt. They’ll explain what it used to mean to others, and we’ll sell more shirts.”
But, the extent to which that approach is folded in to the current environment is an interesting debate, one that has actually spilled out into Suburban America as shopping malls and new developments try to “inhabit” architectural tropes from the cultural zeitgeist and create new places that aren’t new. Beyond New Urbanism, we’ve got malls trying to look like Italy, or the seaside, or other places. And again—this debate points itself squarely back at WDW and what they decide is appropriate. Or does it? I don’t know that people look to Disney any more for leadership in these matters.
What we’re seeing happen with CarsLand, Wizarding World,—and, probably AvatarLand represents, I think, where things are heading, entire lands thematically unified in this way. They’re the junior stepchildren of the approach taken in Asia and Africa. So, that sort of thing is happening.
What to do with our old buddies, the lands in MK, though? In a lot of ways, they’re a patchwork quilt already, retrofitted, and with plenty of thematic breaks, quirks, and, ugh, you’re right “magic” sometimes seemingly unceremoniously plopped in. Well, on one hand, that’s what happens to “older neighborhoods” that take on the patina of time and space. On the other hand, wow, that isn’t what a Disney theme park is about. It’s not supposed to get thematically shabby.
So, it seems, I’ve come to the idea of Nostalgia as a theme. The idea is—rather than think “I’m in a jungle”, when sitting and looking around Adventureland, I’d think “wow, I’m in . . . Walt Disney World, as it was in 1971!” A strange—and yet in some ways for me, compelling thing to consider. What I wouldn’t give to see the subs in the lagoon again, for example. Or Horizons. I am yearning for a past that is receding as fast as Main Street was when Walt built Disneyland. Something odd and yet comforting to consider.
Orange Bird is an anachronism—and inappropriate juxtaposition in this jungle-themed context. There’s enough there for me to give him a pass, even knowing that.
I know one thing. When I visit the park next, I’m going to get a citrus swirl. I’m going to find a bench. I’m going to sit in the sun and me and Orange Bird are going to have a chat about things. There’s lots to talk about.
dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
Guess what? You don't have to buy one.
I highly doubt bringing these back is cutting into their e-ticket budget.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Per OTPN Legoland is doing better than expected.....
"they originally expected to lose 3 million in the first months, but instead have made 11 million. That bodes well for new attractions!"
The blog admits this is heresay/rumor but this is the kind of success that has to get TDO's attention and provide a swift kick of motivation if accurate. I understand the numbers are not in Disney's league but it does not take much to potentially effect the mouse houses' margins.
So I expect much more love for the MK in the coming months and years.
Of course I predicted this exact response from Disney when the Legoland project was announced and got the usual and completely unjustified flaming.:fork::lookaroun:lol:
*truth is indestructable* :wave:
"they originally expected to lose 3 million in the first months, but instead have made 11 million. That bodes well for new attractions!"
The blog admits this is heresay/rumor but this is the kind of success that has to get TDO's attention and provide a swift kick of motivation if accurate. I understand the numbers are not in Disney's league but it does not take much to potentially effect the mouse houses' margins.
So I expect much more love for the MK in the coming months and years.
Of course I predicted this exact response from Disney when the Legoland project was announced and got the usual and completely unjustified flaming.:fork::lookaroun:lol:
*truth is indestructable* :wave:
dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
This! :wave:
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