On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[DVCakaCarlF]

That is perhaps the most poorly designed section of highway in the country...maybe the free world

Try the 77/485 loop at Charlotte.

 

[UNCgolf]

It represents what “not” to do in urban planning/design. They didn’t seem to make the correlation between what massive suburban expansion does to roadway capacity?

Best engineering fail this side of PENNDot

Atlanta's highways are pretty awful.

I had a roommate about a decade ago that worked roughly 20 miles from where we lived. He had to take 285 to get there and back (well, not HAD to, but it was faster than any other alternative). Usually took him about an hour and 15 minutes to get back to our place -- could make the same drive in 15 minutes on a weekend.

 

[asianway]

Atlanta's highways are pretty awful.

I had a roommate about a decade ago that worked roughly 20 miles from where we lived. He had to take 285 to get there and back (well, not HAD to, but it was faster than any other alternatives). Usually took him about an hour and 15 minutes to get back to our place -- could make the same drive in 15 minutes on a weekend.

I saw my first dead body on an Atlanta highway

 

[AEfx]

Wow, slogging through the last twenty pages or so has been painful. I forgot just how many people live in a bubble and still think our service based economy should all be run by teenagers and retirees, and that everyone else should just get a “real job” if they want to be able to make a living wage.

Big old news flash for them - like many things, COVID has accelerated something that was already starting to happen. The days of expecting anyone to work any full time job for $10 an hour are coming to a swift close.

This situation has forced society to look at what was really important to them - and during “lockdown”, where everyone but “essential workers” was told to stay home, we decided that the most “essential workers” aside from medical were...those that worked fast food and as clerks in convenience stores. We told people that their minimum wage jobs were so important to us that they had to risk their LIVES to continue to provide that service.

Disney already has this issue, where you could make as much working at McDonalds as in the Magic Kingdom, even though one job required way more BS than the other (at McDonalds you park twenty feet away from the building, you don’t have to take 45 minutes to actually get to your post once you’ve parked your car, and that’s just the start of how much extra Disney employees have to deal with).

People have started to realize their worth. Fast food wages are already going up. Soon, if not already, you can make more than Disney pays. And in case anyone missed it or isn’t paying attention, the days of college students coming to WDW and essentially breaking even after everything Disney takes out of their already paltry pay is OVER.

We have just told the lowest paid, now highest risk workers in our society that they are “essential” - the same ones that some want to tell “if you want to make your rent, get a better job”.

If anyone doesn’t think this is going to fundamentally change the labor market, in favor of higher paid workers, isn’t paying attention.

 

[Polkadotdress]

Would that be more or less dangerous than the Publix in Celebration?

What does that mean? What danger?

 

[donaldtoo]

I saw my first dead body on an Atlanta highway

 

[flynnibus]

You're literally right up Rt 15..... I went to HS in Loudoun....

Also, Hi Flynn!

Yup... its grown like crazy compared to the early 90s. I've been here since '98 and the whole toll rd corridor has changed dramatically during that time.. let alone ashburn going nuts. My pocket is still very nice though, which is why we stayed here through our last upgrade as well.

And welcome back

 

[mkt]

That's why a free market system works - if what you say is true and the marketplace both values the work of these people more and there is a disruption in supply/demand because they refuse to sell their labor for the current wage, then wages will in fact increase.

In a perfect world, absolutely. But as the largest employer in the region and in the state, Disney holds most of the cards here. If people leave due to low wages, there's a dozen people with a Disney dream waiting to jump and take over their jobs.

Only to be disillusioned later.

It's a story I've seen repeated many times with the mouse.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

In a perfect world, absolutely. But as the largest employer in the region and in the state, Disney holds most of the cards here. If people leave due to low wages, there's a dozen people with a Disney dream waiting to jump and take over their jobs.

Only to be disillusioned later.

It's a store I've seen repeated many times with the mouse.

That's because there's a positive feedback loop going in the US that enables lots of horrible things to continue unchecked.

 

[AEfx]

That's why a free market system works - if what you say is true and the marketplace both values the work of these people more and there is a disruption in supply/demand because they refuse to sell their labor for the current wage, then wages will in fact increase.

On the other hand, the massive amount of unemployment that will be coming when the government subsidized staffing ends will lead to a surplus in entry level workers chasing even fewer jobs due to downsizing. When that happens the leverage, especially for an employer like Disney, will only increase and that will be their time to extract painful concessions from unions who will have reduced leverage.

Will be interesting to watch it play out.

At Disney, for FOTL employees, it has to.

The CP is gone and likely not coming back anywhere near it’s previous form, if at all. College students don’t even know when they are going to be in a normal classroom again - they wouldn’t come back even if Disney wanted the liability.

Retirees are out. They are not going to be flocking to Disney to work. They are the highest risk group.

So the people left are those who need to make some sort of living wage.

Of course, that is unless anyone is of the belief that things are just going to go back to “normal”, anytime (or any year) soon. Aspects of life have changed and a lot won’t be going back.

Like “enhanced cleaning”. Does anyone think just when a vaccine or whatever becomes available for this specific issue, that any place is going to get away with just doing away with it? Or that the six feet social distancing markers are going anywhere? It’s twenty years past 9-11 but we still are doing bag checks.

Society is changing here, and I think anyone who truly believes that any time in the reasonable future they are going to walk into WDW and not recognize it is as in denial as anyone who thought bag security checks and showing your ID to get on a plane would only last until 2002 or 2003.

 

[Miss Bella]

I carry eight credit cards and I've never paid a penny of interest.

Auto loans at 0% are still a bad idea.

You end up paying more the car that way. I have no idea how many credit cards I have maybe 20 and about 10 I use. I'm waiting for a cruise refund. They told me I used 4 different cards. I can't remember why I used this many cards, but I'm sure it had something to do with making sign-on bonuses.

 

[mkt]

That's because there's a positive feedback loop going in the US that enables lots of horrible things to continue unchecked.

And when you give someone the truth as to how things are there, they refuse to believe, move down, sign a lease, get a job that they hate and can't afford to live off of, quit, break lease, and move back home angry.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

And when you give someone the truth as to how things are there, they refuse to believe, move down, sign a lease, get a job that they hate and can't afford to live off of, quit, break lease, and move back home angry.

The feedback loop includes way more than just Disney.

 

[mkt]

You end up paying more the car that way.

Not always. You treat the negotiation on price and the financing as different transactions. Focus on the out the door price, have preapproved financing, and don't be afraid to get up and walk. The car salesman and sales manager aren't your friends - they're people who want your money.

 

[mkt]

The feedback loop includes way more than just Disney.

A lot of people that have never worked for Disney hold the company in such a high regard, and they assume Disney is a great employer.

It isn't. But you can certainly make a solid middle-class life working there if you manage to get promoted to a leadership or professional role.

 

[mkt]

Exactly. And that's why Disney has zero motivation to either raise wages or provide a better working experience. You explained it perfectly.

People are becoming more and more aware of Disney's labor practices in Florida, and they're getting louder about it. Disney's last announced wage increase happened as a result. And it needs to keep happening. There's no reason for Orlando to be the lowest wage major US city.

 

[hopemax]

That's why a free market system works - if what you say is true and the marketplace both values the work of these people more and there is a disruption in supply/demand because they refuse to sell their labor for the current wage, then wages will in fact increase.

On the other hand, the massive amount of unemployment that will be coming when the government subsidized staffing ends will lead to a surplus in entry level workers chasing even fewer jobs due to downsizing. When that happens the leverage, especially for an employer like Disney, will only increase and that will be their time to extract painful concessions from unions who will have reduced leverage.

Will be interesting to watch it play out.

This is where I usually jump in, and point out how Disney in Orlando has corrupted this basic premise, by importing labor from the Caribbean and the College Program. Local wages do not have to increase, if you can simply get people from somewhere else. The House always wins. Yet somehow we still declare the system fair to all.

This time, though, I'm not sure unemployment will stay in a range where people will be content to fight over scraps. Rather than fighting for access to the full tables of the bourgeoisie. You have to believe you have a chance at the jobs that might exist to take the normal path to the front door. The numbers we're talking about for evictions, missed payments, unemployment. Too many people won't have the luxury of taking the normal path. Historically, these types of imbalances end very poorly. Especially, when one side effectively just told the other side, "we don't care if you get sick and die, shut up, go to work so I can have things."

 

[ImperfectPixie]

A lot of people that have never worked for Disney hold the company in such a high regard, and they assume Disney is a great employer.

It isn't. But you can certainly make a solid middle-class life working there if you manage to get promoted to a leadership or professional role.

I've been very, very fortunate that I've had far more employers that were genuinely good people than I have had bad employers...I didn't realize just how fortunate I was until I was in my late 20s/early 30s.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And when you give someone the truth as to how things are there, they refuse to believe, move down, sign a lease, get a job that they hate and can't afford to live off of, quit, break lease, and move back home angry.

Well that is a bone chilling account...unfortunately accurate.

Exactly. And that's why Disney has zero motivation to either raise wages or provide a better working experience. You explained it perfectly.

Yeah...that’s how it has been.

But the tolerance for the “below living wage” seems to be ending.

And it’s not altruistic at all. It’s simply that ultra low wages to large parts of the population give those that have/make the money less people to sell to/exploit.

You can’t increase your wealth with a “ladder” that has the bottom 5 rungs sawed off...

The world is Changing in some ways..last 5 years has been rather shocking if you look at some of these nuts and bolts things

 

[mkt]

Maybe I have experience that you don't. Maybe I've seen people destroy their marriages by going into thousands of dollars of credit card debt buying damaged merchandise at Property Control. Maybe I've seen people abandon jobs that provide for their families for a minimum wage job and food stamps.

I knew people like that from when I lived in Orlando, I don't know of any other company that has such a cultlike culture.