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On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

celluloid

Well-Known Member
MGM is a head scratcher. In theory, it should be a great park made even better by recent investment. You can do a theme park with 9 rides. Not saying Disney “should.” But Universal Studios Hollywood laid the blueprint for an enjoyable full day park with less than 10 rides. But throw in mix of crowds, Florida weather, and FastPass+, however, and the landscape changes.

Not to mention a park filled with Actor Equity roles and fairly heavy on meet and greets and shows that seem to either be closing up or pausing with no forseeable replacements in the future. Thus making the lack of rides more noticable again.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
And how hard did you hit your head, exactly??

His point is exactly right. It was a success given the circumstances. I.e., it could have been a hell of a lot worse. What Disney showed in this quarter is that they are capable as a company at weathering the storm, and that they have the cash and financial discipline to get through this and not go bankrupt anytime soon. In sane times, it would be an absolutely disasterous earnings report, but expectations have been altered given the fact that we are in the midst of a global pandemic.

But the problem for Disney is the fundament alteration to what their business is going to be...and the pain is just beginning for everyone involved.

I think it's too premature to judge. 2020 is definitely a wash. If we enter 2021 with COVID waning, Disney can rebound. It will look different and will take a while to bounce back to previous levels, but all indications right now are that bookings are solid for 2021.

That’s why, in the mid-to-longer view, I think Universal has the advantage over Disney in terms of park rebounding, how ever many years in the future that becomes possible. They have an entire new theme park which may be on hold, but is now waiting in the wings to be restarted when the time comes for new product.

Comcast is in far worse financial shape than Disney and this is hurting them a lot more because their cash situation and decisions they made. I think long term Uni suffers far more than WDW.

People are naive if they think Chapek is calling the shots without Iger’s blessing. He’s not going to finish his term by end of 2021. Bet on it.

You're probably right there but @MisterPenguin's point was that it's not surprising that Iger wasn't doing the earnings call.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
DHS is a study in the extreme, it has some of the best and newest attractions in the resort (Rise, MF, MMRR,) the two “scariest” thrill rides, and Toy Story but all of those rides (pre Covid) would have waits >1 hour for most of the day, requiring a Fastpass, so what else do you have at the park to do waiting in between FPs? A bunch of shows that haven’t been updated since the last century (and Frozen.)

Thats where DHS fails, I don’t want to see those shows again (except Muppets) AK has FotLK and Nemo that I love watching, MK has TTA, Philharmagic, CBJ and Tiki Room and Epcot is Epcot and has a million things I find worthwhile with no waits. Judging by the crowds, I’m not alone.

DHS is still not a complete park, it lacks good filler attractions, update Indy to a Mandolorian stunt show, replace Mermaid with a PatF show that still uses black light puppets, replace BatB with a high quality Tangled show, and add streetmosphere to Galaxys Edge Pronto.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
His point is exactly right. It was a success given the circumstances. I.e., it could have been a hell of a lot worse. What Disney showed in this quarter is that they are capable as a company at weathering the storm, and that they have the cash and financial discipline to get through this and not go bankrupt anytime soon. In sane times, it would be an absolutely disasterous earnings report, but expectations have been altered given the fact that we are in the midst of a global pandemic.
So it worked then, huh? We need to congratulate RealChappie...

I think it's too premature to judge. 2020 is definitely a wash. If we enter 2021 with COVID waning, Disney can rebound. It will look different and will take a while to bounce back to previous levels, but all indications right now are that bookings are solid for 2021.
Because things haven’t been cancelled yet...doesn’t make them strong.

You’re not the the “other” person buying that “V shaped recovery” nonsense are you?

Comcast is in far worse financial shape than Disney and this is hurting them a lot more because their cash situation and decisions they made. I think long term Uni suffers far more than WDW.
Neither is going anywhere...for all intents and purposes. The demise of Comcast is greatly exaggerated.
You're probably right there but @MisterPenguin's point was that it's not surprising that Iger wasn't doing the earnings call.
Iger quit...I see this all the time. I’m not sure why everyone thinks he “fake quit”. Whatever consultant type thing he’s operating under - it was with a purpose. He severed his ties enough to avoid earnings calls.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
MGM is a head scratcher. In theory, it should be a great park made even better by recent investment. You can do a theme park with 9 rides. Not saying Disney “should.” But Universal Studios Hollywood laid the blueprint for an enjoyable full day park with less than 10 rides. But throw in mix of crowds, Florida weather, and FastPass+, however, and the landscape changes.
Mgm is NOT a great park. I gave them more credit before they did what they’ve done the last 5 years...in a weird way. All this time and what they did is what they think is “adequate” for the future?

Right...they’ll expand into the cast parking lot🙄...that one has been spun more times than new country pavilions in EPCOT
Earnings calls exist to impress Wall Street to hopefully raise company stock price to satisfy the Street and company shareholders.
Right...and it worked like a charm this time. More “value” in the stock for a company on ice and people here lauding them...when the reality is 100% “sucks right now”. Not really hard to track.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I don't know. It seems like we're years away from a new theme park in Orlando being a viable prospect and the rumours are that Universal will be building the Nintendo land in one of the existing parks in the meantime. So that in and of itself suggests there will have to be some major re-thinking of the Epic Universe proposal if anything ever comes of it. The Nintendo area should be popular, but it seems that all bets are off regarding a new park for the foreseeable future.

It looks like Orlando will be in survival mode in coming years rather than splashing around billions of dollars on new attractions to attract visitors. Beyond that seems unknowable to me. The advantage Disney has right now is that the infrastructure is already all there, and they can open up the resort as demand increases without really having to build anything. They also have a few major attractions in various stages of completion ready to roll out over the coming years, which seems like a decent position to be in as tourism (hopefully) begins to recover.
I can’t see Comcast pushing through with their park now...I think it will be delayed multiple years at a minimum.

They’ve put up a good front...but I think the circumstances will cause them to draw back. It’s second site development...which creates more problems naturally...and they’re going to cannibalize their own crowds for some time.
 
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ptaylor

Premium Member
Disney has the answer to the Epcot attendance problems - send in the "influencers!"

And yes, there is someone at WDW with the job title of "Influencer Communications Manager"

 

tirian

Well-Known Member
BTW, if anyone is naive enough to think they are getting inside stock information from a WDW fansite, and act on it, they deserve anything they get. Anyone who thinks the SEC would consider what is being said on a WDW fan forum as "real" insider information that could affect company stock is also pretty naive. Take all rumors stated here with a grain of salt - or a whole salt shaker.
Hence the definition of Rumors on a fan forum. ;)

But people forget that.

It’s gossip, folks. It’s gossip about an entertainment company. Be entertained and enjoy discussing the fandom, but don’t build your life on it.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
The OP did.

Maybe I misread the OP multiple times, but I was under the impression the earnings call would signal the reaction we might see within P&R at some point in the future. Iger’s reputation was wrapped within that.

Plus, the OP states a better, leaner company would emerge. He doesn’t imply Disney is closing shop. Immature posts screeched that.
By the time people started arguing about pay rates in Orlando, the thread shifted to being about the whole company.

Considering the creative accounting used for yesterday’s call, the company obviously spent time massaging things. They took D+ international and only picked up a few extra million subscribers. They’re counting bundle subs as individual ones. They’re counting D+ content as sales to D+. Other numbers are indeed better than expected, but this sort of tomfoolery betrays there was a scramble behind the scenes. Nevertheless, it also demonstrates why the accountants are paid big bucks.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
Disney has the answer to the Epcot attendance problems - send in the "influencers!"

And yes, there is someone at WDW with the job title of "Influencer Communications Manager"

Where’s @WDW1974 when you need him?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Maybe I misread the OP multiple times, but I was under the impression the earnings call would signal the reaction we might see within P&R at some point in the future. Iger’s reputation was wrapped within that.

Plus, the OP states a better, leaner company would emerge. He doesn’t imply Disney is closing shop. Immature posts screeched that.
By the time people started arguing about pay rates in Orlando, the thread shifted to being about the whole company.

Considering the creative accounting used for yesterday’s call, the company obviously spent time massaging things. They took D+ international and only picked up a few extra million subscribers. They’re counting bundle subs as individual ones. They’re counting D+ content as sales to D+. Other numbers are indeed better than expected, but this sort of tomfoolery betrays there was a scramble behind the scenes. Nevertheless, it also demonstrates why the accountants are paid big bucks.
...on point. As usual.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
DHS is a study in the extreme, it has some of the best and newest attractions in the resort (Rise, MF, MMRR,) the two “scariest” thrill rides, and Toy Story but all of those rides (pre Covid) would have waits >1 hour for most of the day, requiring a Fastpass, so what else do you have at the park to do waiting in between FPs? A bunch of shows that haven’t been updated since the last century (and Frozen.)

Thats where DHS fails, I don’t want to see those shows again (except Muppets) AK has FotLK and Nemo that I love watching, MK has TTA, Philharmagic, CBJ and Tiki Room and Epcot is Epcot and has a million things I find worthwhile with no waits. Judging by the crowds, I’m not alone.

DHS is still not a complete park, it lacks good filler attractions, update Indy to a Mandolorian stunt show, replace Mermaid with a PatF show that still uses black light puppets, replace BatB with a high quality Tangled show, and add streetmosphere to Galaxys Edge Pronto.

Honestly if DHS refreshed Indy and replaced Mermaid, BatB, and Frozen with good shows, it would be a very good park. If they replaced Launch Bay with something meaningful it would be a great park.
So it worked then, huh? We need to congratulate RealChappie...

Honestly, and I say this as not the biggest Chapek fan, he may actually be the right CEO for this situation. We'll see what happens as time goes by if there is significant cutback, lack of expansion, etc, but I think what he did with Q2 is nothing short of impressive. For anyone who says that it was accounting trucks and cheats didn't read the financial report. Operationally, they made a small profit. The losses they experienced were due to a write down. That's probably the only accounting trick that was really there, and that's one that made them appear weaker in the short term because it made it look like a $5 billion dollar loss, but in a long one will help them with their tax situation next year. Your predictions may prove out in the long term or they may not, we will see, but judging just on the situation we had in March April and May, and what the results were yesterday, it's about the best they could have possibly done and it will help them survive this. Whether they return to more normal levels after this is over is an open question, and you may be proven right in the long term, but we will see.
You’re not the the “other” person buying that “V shaped recovery” nonsense are you?

Absolutely not. When this first started I thought of v-shaped recovery might be possible. If I made April it was clear that it wasn't going to be. Hypothetically, let's say there is a vaccine by January and most people are inoculated by April. Obviously that's a rosie scenario, but it's one being talked about right now by Fauci and others. In that situation, I think there will be a modest recovery that looks like the start of a v, just by virtue of the fact that all the restrictions are gone. But then it will probably plateau for a while, maybe years, before it starts to climb again. But who knows, it's impossible to predict as we have never been in this situation before. But no, I don't believe in the v-shaped recovery.

The other factor to consider is the possibility of a bailout of the US tourism industry by the government. There had been talks of a $4,000 tax credit, some recent talks of a government rebate to the businesses themselves to lower their prices, etc In order to stimulate tourism. We can't count that possibility out and have no idea what the effect of that will be.

All this is to say but there are way too many variables and way too much unknown for anyone, myself included, to have a crystal ball and to see what will happen in 3 months time, 6 months time, 1 years time, 3 years time. We're dealing with a crisis that the modern world has never experienced before. Even with the Spanish flu, it was a completely different beast because our cultures and economies were not so intertwined. it's going to take a long time to see how this ultimately shakes out, and a lot will depend on how quickly we can resolve the covet situation and get back to some sort of normal, assuming that we can resolve it.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Honestly if DHS refreshed Indy and replaced Mermaid, BatB, and Frozen with good shows, it would be a very good park. If they replaced Launch Bay with something meaningful it would be a great park.


Honestly, and I say this as not the biggest Chapek fan, he may actually be the right CEO for this situation. We'll see what happens as time goes by if there is significant cutback, lack of expansion, etc, but I think what he did with Q2 is nothing short of impressive. For anyone who says that it was accounting trucks and cheats didn't read the financial report. Operationally, they made a small profit. The losses they experienced were due to a write down. That's probably the only accounting trick that was really there, and that's one that made them appear weaker in the short term because it made it look like a $5 billion dollar loss, but in a long one will help them with their tax situation next year. Your predictions may prove out in the long term or they may not, we will see, but judging just on the situation we had in March April and May, and what the results were yesterday, it's about the best they could have possibly done and it will help them survive this. Whether they return to more normal levels after this is over is an open question, and you may be proven right in the long term, but we will see.


Absolutely not. When this first started I thought of v-shaped recovery might be possible. If I made April it was clear that it wasn't going to be. Hypothetically, let's say there is a vaccine by January and most people are inoculated by April. Obviously that's a rosie scenario, but it's one being talked about right now by Fauci and others. In that situation, I think there will be a modest recovery that looks like the start of a v, just by virtue of the fact that all the restrictions are gone. But then it will probably plateau for a while, maybe years, before it starts to climb again. But who knows, it's impossible to predict as we have never been in this situation before. But no, I don't believe in the v-shaped recovery.

The other factor to consider is the possibility of a bailout of the US tourism industry by the government. There had been talks of a $4,000 tax credit, some recent talks of a government rebate to the businesses themselves to lower their prices, etc In order to stimulate tourism. We can't count that possibility out and have no idea what the effect of that will be.

All this is to say but there are way too many variables and way too much unknown for anyone, myself included, to have a crystal ball and to see what will happen in 3 months time, 6 months time, 1 years time, 3 years time. We're dealing with a crisis that the modern world has never experienced before. Even with the Spanish flu, it was a completely different beast because our cultures and economies were not so intertwined. it's going to take a long time to see how this ultimately shakes out, and a lot will depend on how quickly we can resolve the covet situation and get back to some sort of normal, assuming that we can resolve it.
You make several good points too. For now, it’s “wait and see.”
 

juniorthomas

Well-Known Member
Oh man. I have logged in, written drafts, deleted them, and swore I would never do this. Yet here I am. And I'm ready to start some ****.

The Walt Disney Company is about to experience some of the deepest layoffs I have ever witnessed in my adult life. I would call attention to the 2002 and 2009 layoffs after those respective crises. Those separations from the company were orderly. Often via generous voluntary packages. Hell, to his credit, Al Weiss was militant about never laying off a CM against their will after 9/11. I respect that. He was basically a dumbass otherwise.

In 2009, there was a similar "orderly" exit of excess personnel. However, much of this labor was brought back remarkably fast as Disney's business was in far better shape in 2009.

We also have other, smaller layoffs that hit project teams at WDI. These are bull**** layoffs. Flim Flam. Just some accounting tricks. Almost everyone is brought back.

Well, these days are no more. What you are about to see from WDC will be shocking and it will permanently change their business forever. The bloat is about to be gone. The mediocrity that's failed upward all our lives is about to be purged. A new company is emerging.

And no, Bob Chapek is no hero. But he does recognize the value in taking out the trash.

Now, lets talk about attendance at WDW. It's effing bad. Its Hard Rock Park bad. It's Dubai bad. Its the worst attendance in the history of the resort. Epcot is lucky to hit 2500 a day and usually is only hosting a few hundred at a time. Magic Kingdom is tormentingly under performing. There is simply no demand to fill the park out even to its limited capacity. The other two parks are also in dire straits, but due to their smaller size, there are certain days they can make a go of it. And yet still, the resort business is the iceberg and WDW Parks are the titanic. This will not end well.

The situation is dire. Unsustainable. WDW parks will be dropping to five day weeks soon. They will likely not be alone in this practice.

And that brings me to Bob Iger. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Gotta Put Yoda on His Wife's Dress to Bury Some Search Engine Leads. That guy. It is my pleasure to announce that he will be soon tossed on his ***. In disgrace. His sins, his poor judgement, his poor treatment of subordinates. His malicious temper and outrageous displays of "toxic masculinity" as the kids call it. All this and more is coming out. Good riddance.
A ‘legacy of disgrace’ is about as subjective it gets.
 

jackpast

New Member
Seems pretty simple why parks are empty to me...international and out-of-state visitors are NOT going to Covid ridden Florida. Period. No vaccine, no travel to hot spots. I agree with all who think masks aren’t necessary when outside. But if the parks do get crowded, distancing will be nearly impossible so masks need to be worn so when a covid positive person sneezes and his spray gets picked up by that annoying kid with that battery operated mister that blows right in my face, maybe I won’t get infected.
 

brianstl

Well-Known Member
About the posts that suggest WDW world may be cutting down to being open only five days a week.
I think you would see that in their new park reservation system.
They aren't going to be cutting back to five days a week. That would send the wrong signal to investor and would add uncertainty that would further deter guest from making resort reservations. It could have happened if being open right now was costing them more money than being shut down, but it isn't.

It wouldn’t shock me if they tinkered with park operating hours some.
 
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Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
They aren't going to be cutting back to five days a week. That would send the wrong signal to investor and would add uncertainty that would further deter guest from making resort reservations. It could have happened if being open right now was costing them more money than being shut down, but it isn't.

It would shock me if they tinkered with park operating hours some.
If anything I could see them cutting hours at the parks.
 

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