NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney"

[RSoxNo1]

And Epcot.

Epcot now, or 1989?

 

[bubbles1812]

The answer to this question is complicated. Basically, Universal spends about 20 to 25 percent of an attraction's development budget on soft costs (design, admin, management etc.). Disney can go up to 30 to 40 percent in some cases. The reasons, in part, for Disney's higher soft costs are R&D as well as layers of wasted management labor costs. Universal will rely heavily on "free" work from its vendors to bid on a much less developed concept design package. The vendors will have to develop these bid packages to the point that Disney would have released its bid packages (whether these bid packages are going in-house or out to a sub makes no difference). For the Universal vendors to get these design documents up to the point of putting in a decent bid they will need to dedicate some resources to flesh out the basic concepts communicated from Creative Studios in minimal drawings and beat lists etc. So what ends up happening is UC gets a lot of free design work because these vendors want the job and will develop the basic concepts to a level that they can estimate budget and schedule requirements. Disney will have already gotten that far before submitting its bid packages.

As far as red tape and bureaucracy Disney wins big time on that one. Universal has its fair share but WDI's bloated management structure and recent history of hiring lower grade talent, just because they may hold more college degrees for example (I am positive that, were he alive today, if Walt Disney himself were to apply at WDI he would be turned down), makes Disney extremely inefficient.

The fact that WDI allocates a much higher percentage of project resources to R&D also adds to their higher costs.

There are more reasons but that will give you a start in understanding the differences.

Yes, I definitely echo dreamer in my thanks for your explanation. It's really interesting. That's amazing how much more is spent on the soft costs in some cases. I had never thought about what the vendors do before putting in a bid as free work but that definitely makes sense. I hope Disney reorganizes their management structure. The company as a whole would be so much better if things were streamlined. Not that I want people to lose their jobs, but it's frustrating knowing good ideas probably get lost in management process.

 

[danlb_2000]

Regarding the SS44 demolition permit, these words were caught by a member on another site, pointing to the fact that, whatever if happening to SS44 will be completed within 2 years:

Expiration date of notice of commencement (the expiration date may not be before the completion of construction and final
payment to the contractor ,but will be one (1) year from the date of recording unless a different date is specified) - 06/07/2014

Is that member of the other boards reading this right or is that June 7, 2014 date mean literally nothing as far as when this project is to be completed?

That date is the date the project needs to be complete, unless they extend the permit. Most of the permits we see for WDW leave the date blank so they get the default one year, but the FLE permits had about a two year expiration, but then were renewed.

 

[Captain Chaos]

That date is the project needs to be complete, unless they extend the permit. Most of the permits we see for WDW leave the date blank so they get the default one year, but the FLE permits had about a two year expiration, but then were renewed.

Thanks!!!! I figured as much, but I admit, I'm no permit expert.. Just wanted to make sure that is what that meant.. So, it is possible in 2 years we'll have not only 2 Potter E tickets opening but a possible third new attraction in Universal, providing SS44 is going to become an attraction...

Ohh, on that same site, another member who is highly regarded has said characters are getting moved out on Monday... I'm wondering if he means Monster Cafe, right next to SS44??? hmmmmmm............

 

[flynnibus]

I'm not making a mountain out of a mole hill. I'm not exaggerating. You can see FJ's non-themed show building sections from inside of the park. I've seen them with my own two eyes on numerous occasions.

I didn't say it wasn't visible - I said people are making the issue out to be more than it really is. It's not visible inside the land except for the extreme extended queue.. which probably won't be used beyond the near term future. As for it being viewable from the other portions of the park - when you seek it out. I mean how can anyone think about the hogwarts building when the JP building dominates the area?

The exposed show building and extended queue of Forbidden Journey is a problem. Look to how it's going to be built in Hollywood to see that Universal undoubtedly regrets this. I'm rather surprised that Rowling actually approved it.

What makes you think Hollywood is going to be better? Hollywood is pretty much all sound stage buildings with a themed doorways. It looks worse in most examples. Adding to the problem is the lack of space and the two level layout of the park... putting even more in the view of people. There is 'no where to hide' or space to give stand-off distance in Hollywood. It's basically more constrained than even DLR is.

 

[Lee]

Yeah the multi-million dollar expansion and proposed new land are perfect proof of that.

They are perfect proof of the company doing just what it needs to do to keep selling DVC units and keep the hotels at an acceptable occupancy rate.

Well well, that is interesting indeed especially considering those that were quoting the person at the time.

The person in question was at one time very well connected inside the company. That changed right around the time of the FLE announcement, or a bit before.

PS- he said nothing was happening with the safari ride. Just sayin'.

And what is happening over there? They are changing the finale of the ride to eliminate the storyline and replace it with another animal exhibit. Woo-hoo. Big deal. Not what I personally consider an upgrade.
(And yes, '74 is well aware of what is going on there.)

Not a legal liability, but a financial liability. It takes so much money to properly maintain and keep the resort fresh, that they see it as a financial liability.

Bingo. WDW is in the process, has been for years now, of transitioning from a theme park business to a hotel/timeshare/land development business. They see every dollar spent on the parks as a necessary evil, and spend that money only when they feel they need to sweeten the pot in order to sell some land.

Remember the rumor that Disney was looking to unload a all or a portion of their Parks and Resorts business? Why do you think that is? Why do you think Disney has been willing to spend large amounts of money at every resort they manage, while WDW has seen entertainment cuts, attraction development lagging, and not much besides hotels?

And again, if you factor in what Universal is doing (Oh...look! Another round of permits!), it makes WDW look even worse and makes you REALLY wonder how folks in Orlando and Burbank are content with the product? They know what it needs, they just lack the will to do it.

Why?

They see it as a risk.

This. All of this is completely accurate.

 

[Lee]

There overwhelming priority was to fix DCA. That is accomplished. Now they can turn their attention to other matters.

Correct. They are turning their attention to the rest of the Disneyland resort.

As I said in an earlier post, outside of a potential Avatar attraction and some re-working of DTD, nothing of note is headed to WDW that isn't a DVC project.

They are not. They are still focused on DL.

Hmmmm. Why does Disney feel the need to compete with Potter in DL but not WDW?

Oooh! Oooh! I know! I know!
But I shouldn't answer, so as not to look like I'm trying to hog all the good stuff....

 

[Lee]

Now JT, you know they dont need to do that. They'd just come away with how to over inflate the price tag.

Damn, you beat me to it!

 

[ChrisFL]

I didn't say it wasn't visible - I said people are making the issue out to be more than it really is. It's not visible inside the land except for the extreme extended queue.. which probably won't be used beyond the near term future. As for it being viewable from the other portions of the park - when you seek it out. I mean how can anyone think about the hogwarts building when the JP building dominates the area?

Yeah, I love JPRA, but the large generic building could have been designed differently, yet no one ever refers to it compared to the hogwart's building.

 

[Jim Handy]

Thank you, Lee.

 

[Jim Handy]

Oooh! Oooh! I know! I know!
But I shouldn't answer, so as not to look like I'm trying to hog all the good stuff....

Apparently the fact that WDW isn't Disney's favorite asset was a shock to these folks. It would be best not to reveal that answer today anyway.

 

[flynnibus]

Sorry, are you suggesting WDW is a financial liability? I believe theme parks and TV revenue (i.e. commercials) were the only areas in Disney with increased profits in the first quarter of 2012. Disney's theme parks are profitable nearly every year. It seems to me that the theme parks give corporate Disney a relatively stable source of income during financial uncertainty.

The theme parks takes insane amount of money to make money tho..
Which is lower risk.. sit back and collect royalties.. or spend billions to get 10% return...

The parks represent a huge capital cost and monsterous operational cost. They have to spend crazy money to make that revenue. That's why it is attractive to some to let someone else spend that crazy amount of recurring money.. and just take a percentage of the profits as licensing and royalties.

 

[invader]

They are perfect proof of the company doing just what it needs to do to keep selling DVC units and keep the hotels at an acceptable occupancy rate.

Bleh, potentially. They could have just kept doing mediocre refurbs (see BTMRR) and NextGen if they didn't care at all.

 

[Jim Handy]

Bleh, potentially. They could have just kept doing mediocre refurbs (see BTMRR) and NextGen if they didn't care at all.

Lee is right in regards to FLE and Avatar.

And the BTMRR refurb was done for safety and crucial maintenance more than anything. NextGen is a data mining program shrouded in screens.

 

[whylightbulb]

That is a good start I admit. Hopefully they will visit Radiator Springs Racers for some inspiration on how to do it right.

Nah...I think a better model for us would be the Double Dumbo complete with the cutting edge playground or perhaps we could learn how to apply a large mural from Beauty and the Beast restaurant. Maybe the high quality Soarin' film with the scratches or maybe the Nemo carnival dark ride at Epcot. Really I think we should all take a field trip to Journey into Your Imagination and take some detailed notes on how to design and build a dark ride.

 

[menamechris]

Bingo. WDW is in the process, has been for years now, of transitioning from a theme park business to a hotel/timeshare/land development business. They see every dollar spent on the parks as a necessary evil, and spend that money only when they feel they need to sweeten the pot in order to sell some land.

Eventually, the DVC well is going to dry up. Nothing like that can spring eternal. Eventually, Disney will have reached out to the vast majority of interested consumers - and there will soon enough be a history from those who bought in whether it was actually worth it or not in the long run. Sooner or later - WDW will have to get back into the entertainment business. They are going to have a very large contracted audience who, hopefully, will expect more...

 

[RSoxNo1]

What makes you think Hollywood is going to be better? Hollywood is pretty much all sound stage buildings with a themed doorways. It looks worse in most examples. Adding to the problem is the lack of space and the two level layout of the park... putting even more in the view of people. There is 'no where to hide' or space to give stand-off distance in Hollywood. It's basically more constrained than even DLR is.

Simply, they can learn from the mistakes they made in Florida. They can improve site lines, include the Dining experience that Jim Hill has described. I have quite a bit of confidence in Universal Creative right now. I'm sure that the West Coast version will address many of the issues that have plagued Florida's version. If you don't believe this, it's ok, Disney does.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Correct. They are turning their attention to the rest of the Disneyland resort.

As I said in an earlier post, outside of a potential Avatar attraction and some re-working of DTD, nothing of note is headed to WDW that isn't a DVC project.

Oooh! Oooh! I know! I know!
But I shouldn't answer, so as not to look like I'm trying to hog all the good stuff....

Please tell us the answer? You're not stealing anyone's thunder, I promise.

 

[misterID]

They are not. They are still focused on DL.

Hmmmm. Why does Disney feel the need to compete with Potter in DL but not WDW?

Are they selling the WDW?

 

[invader]

Are they selling the WDW?

Please be OLC