NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney"

[bubbles1812]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/theme-parks-tentpoles-disney-cars-land-337086

Caution: Do not stand near any of our resident cynics who might also be reading this as their heads could explode suddenly.

Gracias. It's nice to see you support the statements you make as facts with something actually verifiable for a change. Though I do find it funny the article pointed out that Disney's deal with Cameron wasn't a direct result of HP's success...I believe you were arguing against that at some point

 

[jt04]

Soooo just to be clear you are quoting this article for truth, yet disagree with everything they say about how great potter has been and will be? just want to be clear

I am a fan of the potterville add at IoA. Never said otherwise. And when I heard rumors of the concept for Potter 2.0 I all but begged (actually I did beg) for Uni to greenlight it. Greatest concept for a thme park addition I have ever heard of! So far.


Heh.

 

[bubbles1812]

See the article in the post above. Remember also that this is only refering to the investment for AvLand. This does not include upgrades to the Safari and possibly FotLK. Not to mention the investments that may be percolating at the other 3 parks we have not heard about yet. (and Test Track too).

Unverifiable so irrelevant at this point. Remember, Uni is making an equivalent investment at their parks...not all the money is just for Potter 2.0. Much like you pointed out that Disney is not just going to do AvLand. Also, the article pointed out that Uni's numbers have increased attendance wise. Yes, Disney's revenue has but I didn't see much about their attendance...it's stagnated...which basically just means they are managing to squeeze their customers more.

 

[jt04]

Unverifiable so irrelevant at this point. Remember, Uni is making an equivalent investment at their parks...not all the money is just for Potter 2.0. Much like you pointed out that Disney is not just going to do AvLand. Also, the article pointed out that Uni's numbers have increased attendance wise. Yes, Disney's revenue has but I didn't see much about their attendance...it's stagnated...which basically just means they are managing to squeeze their customers more.

People are delaying trips to WDW in anticipation of the opening of the FLE. Potter helped keep things somewhat level and the drop-off for WDW was relatively minor. Disney has been very strategic in its timing of events both with the opening of potter and DCA 2.0. look how many people here are headed for the DLR in the next year or so. They will return to WDW in force though as TWDC's investments in WDW start to go on-line.

So, a half billion for the FLE and a half billion for AvLand. That is 1 billion dollars according to my calculator. And the mouse may just be getting started. And for those fearing a stockholder revolt, DCA and the FLE will appease them I think.

 

[lazyboy97o]

AVATAR having a half billion dollar budget at Disney is a pittance unless you're delusional enough to think that Fantasyland is a grand, groundbreaking project.

 

[FrankLapidus]

While I have no interest in Avatar and have no intention of ever visiting it, I'll be interested to finally see the concept work that Disney have come up with and whether they will spend the purported budget of $500 million. Personally, I think that that money would be far better spent on improving other areas of the resort but perhaps I'm in a minority and Avatarland will prove to be Disney's equivalent to Potter at Universal.

 

[bubbles1812]

People are delaying trips to WDW in anticipation of the opening of the FLE. Potter helped keep things somewhat level and the drop-off for WDW was relatively minor. Disney has been very strategic in its timing of events both with the opening of potter and DCA 2.0. look how many people here are headed for the DLR in the next year or so. They will return to WDW in force though as TWDC's investments in WDW start to go on-line.

So, a half billion for the FLE and a half billion for AvLand. That is 1 billion dollars according to my calculator. And the mouse may just be getting started. And for those fearing a stockholder revolt, DCA and the FLE will appease them I think.

Some people may be delaying their trips to Disney but if you truly think that that is the reason Disney's attendance has stagnated, then you are extremely naive. There is awareness yes, but I think you are very much overestimating some of NFE appeal to the average park goer. The people who don't hang on Disney's every development (or lack thereof) like we do here. Nothing with NFE is revolutionary as I've already discussed. There is no big new ride (and Mine Coaster is far away, a year and a half away...and Potter 2.0 will be opening not too far after that with much more spectacular rides if our insiders here are trustworthy, which I believe they are). Also, if you want to look at it that way, Uni spent $250 million (?) on Potter 1.0 plus the 754.5 million over the next 5 years...also brings us up to a billion dollars. You can't exactly argue Universal is doing less/spending less than Disney. And "the mouse may just be getting started"...again, may..I truly hope your right at the may becomes a "is"...but TDO have proven fairly cheap over the past decade. They opt for cost cutting measures rather than making new investments. But I was never arguing or fearing a stockholder revolt, if that's what you ever thought.

 

[jt04]

AVATAR having a half billion dollar budget at Disney is a pittance unless you're delusional enough to think that Fantasyland is a grand, groundbreaking project.

I look at the FLE as the biginning of the reimagining of the MK. A new foundation to build on. In that context it is groudbreaking.

On another topic, your post above makes no sense whatsoever. LOL.

 

[bubbles1812]

I look at the FLE as the biginning of the reimagining of the MK. A new foundation to build on. In that context it is groudbreaking.

On another topic, your post above makes no sense whatsoever. LOL.

How can you even say this though? It could be a new foundation but again, I think most people are extremely skeptical...and with good reason. Going based on the patterns of TDO, it most likely will not be. My guess is that it will be another 15 years at least before they pay attention to the MK again...ie do a major new project. There has been absolutely no indication they want to do more with the MK at this time. And honestly, while there are definitely issues needing addressed in the MK, some of the other parks need it more.

 

[jt04]

Some people may be delaying their trips to Disney but if you truly think that that is the reason Disney's attendance has stagnated, then you are extremely naive. There is awareness yes, but I think you are very much overestimating some of NFE appeal to the average park goer. The people who don't hang on Disney's every development (or lack thereof) like we do here. Nothing with NFE is revolutionary as I've already discussed. There is no big new ride (and Mine Coaster is far away, a year and a half away...and Potter 2.0 will be opening not too far after that with much more spectacular rides if our insiders here are trustworthy, which I believe they are). Also, if you want to look at it that way, Uni spent $250 million (?) on Potter 1.0 plus the 754.5 million over the next 5 years...also brings us up to a billion dollars. You can't exactly argue Universal is doing less/spending less than Disney. And "the mouse may just be getting started"...again, may..I truly hope your right at the may becomes a "is"...but TDO have proven fairly cheap over the past decade. They opt for cost cutting measures rather than making new investments. But I was never arguing or fearing a stockholder revolt, if that's what you ever thought.

Even most insiders agree that TDO has little to no say on large capital projects and hasn't for several years. This is 2012 not 2006. I just detailed with links how Disney is currently investing 1 Billion at WDW and why they timed things the way they did. You can stay in denial of the realities of the situation or you can carry on spouting numbers that will be utterly meaningless 12 months from now. Your choice.

 

[jt04]

How can you even say this though? It could be a new foundation but again, I think most people are extremely skeptical...and with good reason. Going based on the patterns of TDO, it most likely will not be. My guess is that it will be another 15 years at least before they pay attention to the MK again...ie do a major new project. There has been absolutely no indication they want to do more with the MK at this time. And honestly, while there are definitely issues needing addressed in the MK, some of the other parks need it more.

Most people on these boards are skeptics because they choose to listen to a few malcontents who have axes to grind. And it is much easier to be a cynic than an optimist. People have a need to feel victimized. Most never escape it.

 

[misterID]

Most people on these boards a skeptics because they choose to listen to a few malcontents who have axes to grind. And it is much easier to be a cynic than an optimist. People have a need to feel victimized. Most never escape it.

More like People have seen with their own eyes the problems with WDW, despite you going on for YEARS about Potter Swatters and New Sheriffs that were bringing a new golden age to WDW... That never happened.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I look at the FLE as the biginning of the reimagining of the MK. A new foundation to build on. In that context it is groudbreaking.

On another topic, your post above makes no sense whatsoever. LOL.

What part doesn't make sense? That viewing every half baked idea as the precursor to something more is not the norm or logical? Or that Disney over spends? Oh, and the consensus is amongst only yourself regarding Team Disney Orlando. Fantasyland was not a sign of positive change, it was a very bad sign that local management is not interested in running their parks well.

 

[FrankLapidus]

More like People have seen with their own eyes the problems with WDW, despite you going on for YEARS about Potter Swatters and New Sheriffs that were bringing a new golden age to WDW... That never happened.

Agreed, not to mention that the insiders on the forum (Raven, Lee, WDW74, et), or "malcontents", have proven themselves to be trustworthy and genuine sources of information from within WDW.

 

[bubbles1812]

Even most insiders agree that TDO has little to no say on large capital projects and hasn't for several years. This is 2012 not 2006. I just detailed with links how Disney is currently investing 1 Billion at WDW and why they timed things the way they did. You can stay in denial of the realities of the situation or you can carry on spouting numbers that will be utterly meaningless 12 months from now. Your choice.

You literally missed the point of everything I just said... my point was that Universal is staying on par with what Disney is planning to do. They are spending the equivalent amount of dollars. They are investing in new ride technologies (something we have really yet to see from Disney...hopefully Avatar will change that), cleaning up their parks, refurbing old rides ext. As your article stated, much of what Disney is going to be doing (AvLand) is a direct reaction to what Universal did. So of course their timing would be "now."

And of course the numbers will be meaningless in 12 months...that will be then...duh. I think that follows common logic. But it is NOT 12 months from now. This is now. And you've repeatedly tried to deny that Disney's numbers have stagnated this year (and the last several), while Universal's have grown, and have repeatedly denied the significance of that and the impact ($ wise) it is most likely having on Disney.

 

[jt04]

More like People have seen with their own eyes the problems with WDW, despite you going on for YEARS about Potter Swatters and New Sheriffs that were bringing a new golden age to WDW... That never happened.

Well I have read the reactions to things like the FLE (what little we have seen) the refurbs to the HM, BTMRR, return of the TR, MSUSA, HoP etc and I know all this has started to happen after being neglected in previous years even while fixing DCA 2.0. Now that the sheriff has fixed the DLR I think you will see even more happening at WDW. This is what I have always said and everything is proceeding accordingly.

It has been fun. Goodnight optimists! And you too cynics.

 

[bubbles1812]

Most people on these boards are skeptics because they choose to listen to a few malcontents who have axes to grind. And it is much easier to be a cynic than an optimist. People have a need to feel victimized. Most never escape it.

See everything MisterID just said. And again, it's not like you've been to the parks recently, so its not like any one takes you seriously when it comes to your blinded by the pixie dust optimism. There are people on these boards who are super pessimistic about the parks. A few "malcontents" as you described them. But there is no evidence that NFE is a foundation for anything. 10-15 years at least before MK gets another major thing (refurbs don't count). If I'm wrong, I'll buy you that Dole Whip, but I don't think I am.

 

[jt04]

You literally missed the point of everything I just said... my point was that Universal is staying on par with what Disney is planning to do. They are spending the equivalent amount of dollars. They are investing in new ride technologies (something we have really yet to see from Disney...hopefully Avatar will change that), cleaning up their parks, refurbing old rides ext. As your article stated, much of what Disney is going to be doing (AvLand) is a direct reaction to what Universal did. So of course their timing would be "now."

And of course the numbers will be meaningless in 12 months...that will be then...duh. I think that follows common logic. But it is NOT 12 months from now. This is now. And you've repeatedly tried to deny that Disney's numbers have stagnated this year (and the last several), while Universal's have grown, and have repeatedly denied the significance of that and the impact ($ wise) it is most likely having on Disney.

Tempest in a tea pot. I heard the same "sky is falling" panic when Universal first moved to Orlando and again when IoA was announced. It just isn't that big of a deal. Sorry.

 

[bubbles1812]

Tempest in a tea pot. I heard the same "sky is falling" panic when Universal first moved to Orlando and again when IoA was announced. It just isn't that big of a deal. Sorry.

Yay! You did another #6 I was not panicking or saying the sky was falling... you are again misinterpreting everything I said. I'm saying Universal is spending on par with Disney. It's not like Uni is just going to sit on their heals (as Disney has been doing for quite a while) while Disney goes ahead with their plans. They are going to build Potter 2.0, plus more

 

[cheezbat]

See everything MisterID just said. And again, it's not like you've been to the parks recently, so its not like any one takes you seriously when it comes to your blinded by the pixie dust optimism. There are people on these boards who are super pessimistic about the parks. A few "malcontents" as you described them. But there is no evidence that NFE is a foundation for anything. 10-15 years at least before MK gets another major thing (refurbs don't count). If I'm wrong, I'll buy you that Dole Whip, but I don't think I am.

I'll take you up on that offer! I personally don't see anything big added to the MK after the FLE UNTIL 2021...I truly hope and believe well see something for the 50th...Disney couldn't miss that milestone. That'd be one huge mistake.

I have to agree with you though. While I don't have anything against jt04, I have a harder time seeing his viewpoints when he hasnt been down here in years. I'm a central Floridian who visits WDW at least twice a year, and I have seen the decline in the eleven years I have lived here. I love the place. Heck I worked there and loved my job too! It's just disheartening to see how things have gone.
As for Disney spending a billion dollars on WDW attractions...Universal would get twice as much for that kind of money! It's crazy how inflated things are with Imagineering. As a theme park fan, I'm far more excited to see Potter 2.0 and everything else down the pipeline at Universal in the next decade over Avatarland and the Fantasyland ExPansion. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they'll be nice attractions and well themed, just not something to wow me like Forbidden Journey, Tower of Terror, or Haunted Mansion once did.