Not so magical

[NelsonRD]

Sorry, these problems are not simply about a small percentage that shows up due to volume. This is about people attitudes in general and how entities respond to them. Walk into your local McDonalds and spit at the person behind the counter.. and see if you get a free happy meal for your trouble?

Funny... at our gymnastics meets they make announcements at the start of the meet 'NO FLASH PHOTOGRAPHY' and the majority of people listen.. and the few instances where someone doesn't... they make an announcement and/or confront the individual. They don't just IGNORE IT like Disney **CHOOSES** to do.

Flynnibus - How would you feel if you saved for a vacation for months, paid 5K to go to "Disney" only to be kicked out for taking a flash photo on the haunted mansion?

Would Disney be magical if the cast members attacked the guests like that? The decision to look the other way, and then compensate others offended is a business decision. This is not a "Disney doesn't care" or "Disney is greedy", or the "Cast Members are lazy" issue. This is a decision that you disagree with, but I will argue may actually be better in escalation of angry guests, and for that reason, I understand why it happens. Disney has a higher expectation of any other place, and that cannot be ruined by having mean cast members - even if you are wrong.

Now, with that said, read my context - I said I understand how this happens, not that I agree, and for the record, yes, I cringe when somebody takes a flash photo on a dark ride. They don't even come out anyways.....

 

[Pixie VaVoom]

True, and more then likely the state standardized tests do not consider the value of experiencing life instead of just reading about it. It's no longer a problem for me and hasn't been for a lot of years now, but, it frustrates me how a school system can dictate how I raise my children and what I decide is a priority. It's one thing to intervene in the event of child abuse, but, this is not child abuse.

If this is a recurring concern for you then you need to check with your state education department. I have friends who do partial homeschooling in Texas and Oklahoma (and their kids are topping out the scores in their grade levels- btw) and the state restrictions MAY not be nearly as stringent as your local school board would like you to believe. The Board just knows that IF a lot of folks participate in partial homeschooling...THEN the school board loses government MONEY $$$.

 

[flynnibus]

Flynnibus - How would you feel if you saved for a vacation for months, paid 5K to go to "Disney" only to be kicked out for taking a flash photo on the haunted mansion?

Nice strawman... but when we go back to what I actually said...

Every person in the park has a ticket to id them. Use a demerit system and eject problem people.

You wouldn't throw someone out who didn't know what they were doing - you'd throw out people who think they are more important than everyone around them through their demonstrated repeat offenses.

Second, your hypothetical doesn't even address the very basic response Disney should do... ADDRESS THE ISSUE WITH THE GUEST. You know.. actually say something to the guy breaking the rules? Oh.. we wouldn't want to risk offending the guy who 'saved for months' and yet expects courtesy for HIM, but not anyone else around him.

Would Disney be magical if the cast members attacked the guests like that?

'attacked' guests? Enforcing rules is now 'attacking' people? Yeah, some level set you got there..

The decision to look the other way, and then compensate others offended is a business decision. This is not a "Disney doesn't care" or "Disney is greedy", or the "Cast Members are lazy" issue. This is a decision that you disagree with, but I will argue may actually be better in escalation of angry guests, and for that reason, I understand why it happens. Disney has a higher expectation of any other place, and that cannot be ruined by having mean cast members - even if you are wrong.

Mean cast members? Someone who mentions a rules violation is now a 'mean cast member'? what is in your head?
And nice to see you've changed your tune to admit it's a CHOICE by Disney - not a constraint. They CHOOSE to turn the other cheek when guests roll over them. The problem with your 'sweep it under the rug' position is it fails to address what is the root complaint from other customers... the impact these people have on OTHER people. You're buying into the same 'risk aversion' that steers Disney management. You think it's better to just go along with it vs addressing problems.

You however fail to acknowledge just how far Disney has taken this... and the consequences of doing so. The complete removal of any type of decision making or support for employees in these types of situations means you've shown zero trust to that person. Instead of a policy of training and situation management, Disney takes the path of "you do nothing, call a grown up and they will handle it"... and in turn goes to the extreme of failing to equip CMs properly to handle these kinds of situations. It's a vicious cycle... you don't trust people, you don't train them, you don't equip them, you don't support them. And people wonder why CMs can't be happy faces all the time?

There is certainly a place for capitulation and simple 'move on' when it comes to guest recovery strategies... but that doesn't make it universal rule you apply to every situation, nor does that mean you disrespect, abandon, and generally throw your employees under the bus and then rock back and forth over them.

I point to again... if people tried this kind of crap in any other place they'd be shown the door. Yet at Disney, because "they've saved for months" you and others just want to let them on CMs and everyone else around them and be rewarded for doing so.

That's not how you run a customer focused business - It's a disservice to your other guests and hinders the effectiveness of your work force.

 

[Goofyernmost]

If this is a recurring concern for you then you need to check with your state education department. I have friends who do partial homeschooling in Texas and Oklahoma (and their kids are topping out the scores in their grade levels- btw) and the state restrictions MAY not be nearly as stringent as your local school board would like you to believe. The Board just knows that IF a lot of folks participate in partial homeschooling...THEN the school board loses government MONEY $$$.

As I stated, I no longer have a horse in this race. My kids are gown up, have kids of their own and are all doing well. I didn't like being bullied by the school system back then because instead of being able to give me a solid reason why they thought my girls would be forever hurt by my request for a couple of days off, they just threatened me and them with THEIR instant failure if I didn't see things their way. I haven't forgotten how angry that made me and it happened over 20 years ago.

Both my daughters have children. My oldest daughter graduated from College with a 4.0 average and home schools her three children. She does not have to ask anyone's permission to make decisions that might interrupt the "school year". I'm sure I don't need to tell you that she was the one that was threatened with failure if she were to do what her parents wanted her to do. The youngest only has one and he has attended regular school with no problems, but, they have never had call to challenge the rules, to this point.

I don't think that the schools are worried about homeschooling. I think that because there is more and more pressure for parents to have to be proactive in the education process. I think that is a good idea, I did it, but, I wasn't forced to do it, I did it because I wanted too. Schools do not ever give any consideration to families that due to economic pressure are both working, some more then one job. Then after that are required to be involved when there sometimes is not enough time in the day to do that. Especially true when considering single parents and their situations. Anyway, that proactive approach is only one step away from homeschooling and one of the reasons why it is becoming more prevalent in my mind.

 

[NelsonRD]

That's not how you run a customer focused business - It's a disservice to your other guests and hinders the effectiveness of your work force.

Flynnibus, my point is this: Anyone who ever received a traffic ticket from a police officer was 'in the wrong' but still gets angry anyways. Some feel the cops 'targeted' them, or others feel they 'should have better things to do'. This hurts public perception. People forget what cops do all day, and focus on that one little thing.

Same with Disney - I am glad the cast member once at the Animal Kingdom noticed my 5 year old crying because she shouldn't see the tigers. She directed us to a place where we could see the tigers, and started talking about the animals. It was the best interaction I have ever had with a cast member. I am glad she was there for my daughter instead of trying to police the park like a hall monitor in high school.

People take pictures in dark rides, people put kids on shoulders, and I'm sorry, the stress at the parks brings out the worst in everybody sometime. Some people do rude things out of ignorance, some because they feel they deserve something. You can get angry, and focus on what Disney is not doing, or be positive and enjoy what they are doing.

 

[flynnibus]

Flynnibus, my point is this: Anyone who ever received a traffic ticket from a police officer was 'in the wrong' but still gets angry anyways. Some feel the cops 'targeted' them, or others feel they 'should have better things to do'. This hurts public perception. People forget what cops do all day, and focus on that one little thing.

So is that perception by people a reason to stop enforcing traffic laws all together? And embrace the consequences of doing so?

Your analogy is horrible. Many people get upset when faced when corrected - correct. But that doesn't mean it's the behavior to re-enforce or capitulate to simply because it upset them. Your analogy fails (yet again) to address the CONSEQUENCES of this 'just roll over' strategy... on both employees AND other guests.

Imagine if being pulled over by the cops for legitimately speeding meant if you just yelled back at the cop enough, the judge would throw out your ticket and give you monetary compensation for your trouble. That's what Disney does... even if they bother to pull you over...

And people wonder why the behavior gets worse and worse??

You can get angry, and focus on what Disney is not doing, or be positive and enjoy what they are doing.

"but he still loves me...."

 

[Goofyernmost]

Flynnibus, my point is this: Anyone who ever received a traffic ticket from a police officer was 'in the wrong' but still gets angry anyways. Some feel the cops 'targeted' them, or others feel they 'should have better things to do'. This hurts public perception. People forget what cops do all day, and focus on that one little thing.

I'm not Flynnibus, but I couldn't stop myself from commenting on that paragraph. Let me start by saying that there is a huge difference between the person that gets the ticket being angry and the "public" being angry. Why are we so all fired concerned about the people that don't give one hoot about how we are affected by their actions. But, Oh No, lets not make them angry. Would WDW be more or less of a good place to go if they got so angry that they never went back. I think we can all agree that it would be better.

That brings me back to the original statement. The person who got the ticket was angry, not anyone else, in fact if they had any ability to reason at all, that are thankful that that person was caught and corrected, maybe their life is still there because that person didn't get away with it. The same thing applies to Disney. The public would not be angry if offenders were called to task, they would be happy that the effort that they as individuals made to be courteous and thoughtful of others was rewarded and what is right did prevail. That is not the case now with the way that Disney chooses to handle the situations by not handling it at all. I never thought that I would use this thought, but, Disney is so afraid that they will offend one person that they are allowing hundreds of others to be offended when they realize that Disney doesn't care about their enjoyment. It's just plain stupid and done only because they don't have the backbone to confront these people and that in doing so might just go a long way in preventing it from continuing to happen.

 

[jakeman]

"but he still loves me...."

Apologies as I am coming into this thread late, but it appears that you are comparing Cast Member behavior to domestic abuse.

Would this be a correct interpretation?

 

[flynnibus]

Apologies as I am coming into this thread late, but it appears that you are comparing Cast Member behavior to domestic abuse.

Would this be a correct interpretation?

Nothing to do with cast members. It's about those guests who take the abuse from Disney's choices, yet preach "You can get angry, and focus on what Disney is not doing, or be positive and enjoy what they are doing"

Willing to give Disney passes time and time again because of some past association or belief.

 

[Nemo14]

"but he still loves me...."

Apologies as I am coming into this thread late, but it appears that you are comparing Cast Member behavior to domestic abuse.

Would this be a correct interpretation?

I was horrified when I read this, and hoped that wasn't what he meant.

 

[NelsonRD]

So is that perception by people a reason to stop enforcing traffic laws all together? And embrace the consequences of doing so?

Your analogy is horrible. Many people get upset when faced when corrected - correct. But that doesn't mean it's the behavior to re-enforce or capitulate to simply because it upset them. Your analogy fails (yet again) to address the CONSEQUENCES of this 'just roll over' strategy... on both employees AND other guests.

Imagine if being pulled over by the cops for legitimately speeding meant if you just yelled back at the cop enough, the judge would throw out your ticket and give you monetary compensation for your trouble. That's what Disney does... even if they bother to pull you over...

And people wonder why the behavior gets worse and worse??



"but he still loves me...."

Your right. Somebody took a picture on Pirates and the cast members did nothing! Vacation Ruined!
Im not talking about rolling over for everything, I'm just saying some things are not worth crying over. But, I guess you just want to fry every fish. I want to fry the line cutters, the parade pushers, the loudness/foul language, etc...

Disney is so afraid that they will offend one person that they are allowing hundreds of others to be offended when they realize that Disney doesn't care about their enjoyment. It's just plain stupid and done only because they don't have the backbone to confront these people and that in doing so might just go a long way in preventing it from continuing to happen.

That is what I am trying to say except I believe Disney does care about everybody. Its just the squeaky wheel that gets the oil, and like I said earlier, the ones that break the rules are the ones that are the loudest.

Bad behavior is not a Disney problem. Look at what we do as a society on black friday to save a few bucks on a discontinued tv that didn't pass quality control.......

 

[Nemo14]

Nothing to do with cast members. It's about those guests who take the abuse from Disney's choices, yet preach "You can get angry, and focus on what Disney is not doing, or be positive and enjoy what they are doing"

Willing to give Disney passes time and time again because of some past association or belief.

That's still a very poor and insensitive analogy.

 

[jakeman]

Nothing to do with cast members. It's about those guests who take the abuse from Disney's choices, yet preach "You can get angry, and focus on what Disney is not doing, or be positive and enjoy what they are doing"

Willing to give Disney passes time and time again because of some past association or belief.

Just for further clarification, your intent was to parallel your point with domestic abuse though, correct?

 

[flynnibus]

Your right. Somebody took a picture on Pirates and the cast members did nothing! Vacation Ruined!
Im not talking about rolling over for everything, I'm just saying some things are not worth crying over. But, I guess you just want to fry every fish. I want to fry the line cutters, the parade pushers, the loudness/foul language, etc...

So ignore flash takers and look at all the other situations. The problem is systematic - it's not about a specific violation that Disney turns a blind eye too.

How do we stop this slide? By more ambivalence? Or should we as a whole push that this type of borish, selfish behavior not be tolerated?

Disney has to be the enforcer... and we need to let Disney know that their ambivalence has negative impacts on everyone else. Else, "why change?"

 

[flynnibus]

Just for further clarification, your intent was to parallel your point with domestic abuse though, correct?

I'll cut you off at the pass. If you can't stomach the behavior being referenced at all... get thicker skin.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That is what I am trying to say except I believe Disney does care about everybody. Its just the squeaky wheel that gets the oil, and like I said earlier, the ones that break the rules are the ones that are the loudest.

Bad behavior is not a Disney problem. Look at what we do as a society on black friday to save a few bucks on a discontinued tv that didn't pass quality control.......

Except that when it is on Disney property it is their problem and it can be a huge one if not addressed. It gives a black eye to the place and a lasting bad memory to everyone that had to witness it. It is their job to make the place good for everyone. If they focus on making one total Jacka$$ happy while ignoring the rest of us and hoping we didn't notice, then they are as inconsiderate as the unruly one is.

No it's not the end of the world if someone takes a flash picture on PoTC. But it does ruin that specific experience for everyone else and because of that it should be stopped. We count too. Not just the squeaky wheel.

 

[NelsonRD]

Just for further clarification, your intent was to parallel your point with domestic abuse though, correct?

No, I believe his attack is against anything that has to do with defending Disney. He believes Disney should be a perfect place because of their resources, with no willingness to try to understand why things are the way they are sometimes.

 

[Nemo14]

I'll cut you off at the pass. If you can't stomach the behavior being referenced at all... get thicker skin.

You know, I've followed your posts for a long time and some I have actually agreed with you about, but this has got to be the most abhorrent post I have ever seen you make.

 

[NelsonRD]

Except that when it is on Disney property it is their problem and it can be a huge one if not addressed. It gives a black eye to the place and a lasting bad memory to everyone that had to witness it. It is their job to make the place good for everyone. If they focus on making one total Jacka$$ happy while ignoring the rest of us and hoping we didn't notice, then they are as inconsiderate as the unruly one is.

No it's not the end of the world if someone takes a flash picture on PoTC. But it does ruin that specific experience for everyone else and because of that it should be stopped. We count too. Not just the squeaky wheel.

So how do we stop that guest from not following the rules? Do they even know the rules? Logistically I see the challenge. It is not as simple as 'tell them not to do it anymore', because they will.

 

[Foltzy]

*Sell more Churros

You deserve an award for this