No Monorail Expansion For A While

[phlydude]

Double your number and that would be what it would cost to expand the monorail to meet demand for 20 years.

The problem is, the roads around the parks and in WDW are not congested to the point where you want to pull bus traffic off. That would be the only reason (financial or logistical) to expand the monorails. If you have people waiting in buses sitting in traffic:
1. - Guests are going to get angry because they want to be in the parks. Attendance will drop and guests will not return
2. - Guests are on the buses and not spending money. The quicker they get to the parks, the quicker they get to spend their money (and more of it)

 

[peter11435]

Howcome the monorail expansion is so expensive compared to when it was first built?

I don't think it is that much more expensive. However back then everything could be included in relatively short loops. Now everything is so spread out and in such random layouts that monorail expansion has become almost impossible.

 

[peter11435]

Disney currently has nearly 15 miles of monorail, and that only services less than half of the resort. It would probably take at least 20 more mile of monorail track to include everything. Even at only $100 Million a mile that would be 2 billion. Thats a ton of money for something that will not directly generate revenue.

 

[phlydude]

Howcome the monorail expansion is so expensive compared to when it was first built?

When they were first built, it was 1970. Back in 1970, you could get the best sports car for under $5000 fully loaded. Now, $50k and upwards. That's at least a 10 fold increase in 30 years minimal.

To build the monorails, the pylon footings need to be huge (like 12 or 16 feet square and at least 3 feet deep) to support the weight of the trains above in the swampy ground that is WDW. (Just to break it out for you 12x12x3 = 16 cu. yards of concrete. If the size were to increase to 15x15x4, that would be over 33 cu. yards of concrete. That's alot of cement to put in the ground for every pylon!)

This is where the majority of the expense comes from in the per mile cost of track. The beams themselves can be cast off location and craned into place once the pylons are set. This cost is minimal compare to the rest of the labor, excavating and form setting of the bases.

 

[PhilosophyMagic]

If you look at satellite images of the WDW property, and even good maps, you'll see a lot of space along the road/monorail line between EPCOT and MK. Why can't a resort, or resorts, be built along that line? They would already have a main access road, too!

 

[phlydude]

It might be part of the preserved land that Walt had set away to be untouched??

Other than that, the monorail would have to stop going up and coming back which will make a long trip longer.

 

[slappy magoo]

I would love to see this accomplished, as would anybody. The Pixar agreement has dissolved, ABC is failing financially, and Eisner is in a lot of hot water right now...
-Brendan

FWIW, I think I read on imdb.com yesterday that Pixar reached an agreement with Disney so they're staying.

In a similar thread I also said something along the lines of that the monorail is thought of by many as an attraction and not "just" transportation. I know it's an expensive proposition, but if they were at least able to connect the parks and DD, even if AKL weren't added to the fleet, AND if they added kiosks to each park that could let you know what traffic is like in other parks, I suspect we'd see a better of disbursement of guests throughout the parks. Not only would be more people park-hop to a less-crowded park if they had access to that information, but by taking a monorail, it would feel like they were still experiencing something that was definitively Disney. That feeling goes away when you're on a bus or trudging through a lot to get to your car so you can drive to another parking lot and trudge your way to another park entrance. Give the guests a fun way to get places, and then they'll want to go. And this way, people would feel like they got more out of their vacation. Let's face it, if you spent a lot of money to go to WDW and you feel like you spent all your time in line, you're definitely going to feel like you didn't get your money's worth. To be able to say "MK was packed, so we went to the Main Street kiosk and found out AK was operating at like a 25% attendance level, so we jumped on the next monorail over and had a great time"...well, that sounds more like a satisfied customer who'd come back sooner than someone who said "the MK was packed. I wasn't sure what the other parks were like but by 2 o clock I just gave up, so we waited for a bus, and went to AK. Thank goodness it wasn't so busy there, but it took almost an hour to get there by bus!"

 

[peter11435]

FWIW, I think I read on imdb.com yesterday that Pixar reached an agreement with Disney so they're staying.

In a similar thread I also said something along the lines of that the monorail is thought of by many as an attraction and not "just" transportation. I know it's an expensive proposition, but if they were at least able to connect the parks and DD, even if AKL weren't added to the fleet, AND if they added kiosks to each park that could let you know what traffic is like in other parks, I suspect we'd see a better of disbursement of guests throughout the parks. Not only would be more people park-hop to a less-crowded park if they had access to that information, but by taking a monorail, it would feel like they were still experiencing something that was definitively Disney. That feeling goes away when you're on a bus or trudging through a lot to get to your car so you can drive to another parking lot and trudge your way to another park entrance. Give the guests a fun way to get places, and then they'll want to go. And this way, people would feel like they got more out of their vacation. Let's face it, if you spent a lot of money to go to WDW and you feel like you spent all your time in line, you're definitely going to feel like you didn't get your money's worth. To be able to say "MK was packed, so we went to the Main Street kiosk and found out AK was operating at like a 25% attendance level, so we jumped on the next monorail over and had a great time"...well, that sounds more like a satisfied customer who'd come back sooner than someone who said "the MK was packed. I wasn't sure what the other parks were like but by 2 o clock I just gave up, so we waited for a bus, and went to AK. Thank goodness it wasn't so busy there, but it took almost an hour to get there by bus!"

While that sounds great I don't think Disney would ever do it. They do not like to give out attendence figures in any way. Never have most likely never will.

 

[PeterAlt]

I was riding on the yellow epcot monorail in the cab last night when i suggested to the driver that they should expand the monorail to include MGM and AK and he said simply they are not doing it because of the expenses.....I still have my hopes up for years to come. anyone have any replies? :wave:

Disney, from my close watching about this subject, has a "transportation" plan that will include a mix of new monorail track, light rail, and people movers connecting to a Florida Bullet Train station located on Disney property along 192. That's assuming the bullet train will get built. In other words monorail expansion will happen, conditional of the bullet train getting built.

 

[PeterAlt]

If you look at satellite images of the WDW property, and even good maps, you'll see a lot of space along the road/monorail line between EPCOT and MK. Why can't a resort, or resorts, be built along that line? They would already have a main access road, too!

Great question! I was wondering that myself!

 

[DBF John]

To build the monorails, the pylon footings need to be huge (like 12 or 16 feet square and at least 3 feet deep) to support the weight of the trains above in the swampy ground that is WDW. (Just to break it out for you 12x12x3 = 16 cu. yards of concrete. If the size were to increase to 15x15x4, that would be over 33 cu. yards of concrete. That's alot of cement to put in the ground for every pylon!)

This is where the majority of the expense comes from in the per mile cost of track. The beams themselves can be cast off location and craned into place once the pylons are set. This cost is minimal compare to the rest of the labor, excavating and form setting of the bases.

Well they need a bit more than that, have a look at this, Mono Footings

 

[phlydude]

I stand correected. Thank you for pointing that out to me!

 

[HennieBogan1966]

Monorail Expansion

Well I'm thinking that expansion of the system would be a good thing long term. As has been mentioned, crowd flow would be better to all of the parks and resorts. And as well, I believe that it would actually boost merchandise and food/beverage sales throughout all of the parks.

While this is more of a long term plan as I am stating it, I'm not sure what the thinking of park operations management staff is.


Any thoughts?

 

[Invero]

For the expansion, Disney would need to set aside major funding. When they expanded to Epcot in the '80s, the cost of track was (correct me if I'm wrong,) around $1 million per mile. Meaning, if it were to be done about 20 years later, that cost would be 10-fold the $1 million/per mark.

These days, it's about $65-$110 million per mile, depending on location, complications, and track type.

the Mark VIs were $6 million/per when they were build in the very late '80s as well. Because its around 15 years later, we can expect a figure close to $10-15 million depending on security and technological upgrades to the trains

The Las Vegas MVI trains were $17m a pop, for a four car train. My estimation would be around $23m per train for a 6 car train.

An upgrade for a transportation system that yields no direct profit from a nearly $500 million expense isn't realistic for Disney.

Indeed. Not to mention, expanding the monorail would NOT solve all the problems that people think it would. In fact, it could cause longer travel times, and mean that folks might have to transfer to get where they need to go. Not to mention, the routes that people are all thinking of are all low-demand routes. If you are going to install a huge mass transit system like what they all want, then it better be aimed for where its needed. Of course, that will never happen, because the crowds are at Moderate and Value level resorts.

 

[carvalho63]

Ray Bradbury

I think Ray Bradbury said it best “The secret of Disney is doing things you don’t need and doing them well, and then you realize you needed them all along”.

Expand the monorail!!!

 

[peter11435]

I think Ray Bradbury said it best “The secret of Disney is doing things you don’t need and doing them well, and then you realize you needed them all along”.

Expand the monorail!!!

The problem is that like invero said expanding the monorail will not solve transit "problems." In fact it may only create more. On my last visit to the world I say Monorail Red being towed back the the roundhouse. Because of this all the trains had to stop. With buses you could just sen dout an extra bus.

 

[jwbeck3]

In the middle to late 90's, WDW asked The Walt Disney Company for funds to expand the monorail system. Headquarters turned down their request due to the price, so I don't see why they would approve it anytime soon.

 

[raven]

Im not sure if I agree about the whole expense thing with the monorail. I mean, I know it's expensive but if they really wanted to do it they would. They spend millions of dollars on a single attraction so why can't they expand the transportation? I think there are other factors in the way that we are just not hearing about. But it's probably easier for them to just tell us it's expensive.

 

[Invero]

Im not sure if I agree about the whole expense thing with the monorail. I mean, I know it's expensive but if they really wanted to do it they would. They spend millions of dollars on a single attraction so why can't they expand the transportation? I think there are other factors in the way that we are just not hearing about. But it's probably easier for them to just tell us it's expensive.

Mission: SPACE attracts revenue dollars to Epcot. Expedition Everest will attract revenue dollars to Animal Kingdom. An expansion of the Monorail will not attract noticable revenue dollars... certainly not $500-800 million worth.

 

[MJL]

Y'all can throw out all of the monetary reasons NOT to expand the monorail, but how do you all explain not one, but TWO previous implementations of it after the Disney did it originally in Disneyland in CA?

Yes inflation has seen its days over the last 50 years, but how did Disney financially justify it back in the late 60s with the planning of WDW and once again in the 70s when Epcot planning/construction really took shape, I havent heard one good explanation for this yet.