mitch-fishguard
Member
I see that Rex has gone to the Bills. I think EJ and Kyle Orton cant wait
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NFL 2014 Discussion Thread
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Lord_Vader
Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
The sticking point is that he made three full steps, pulled the ball into his chest then started to extend his arms reaching for the end-zone. In every game I have ever seen this type catch it was ruled a catch and run, then a fumble if the ball hits the ground. He showed clear control of the ball from the moment it hit his hands through beginning to extend plain and clear.
There were other procedural issues that occurred that are highly irregular including the fact that the officials never reset the game clock to 4:36 which is when the "incomplete" pass occurred but left it at 4:06 which is when GB threw the challenge flag.
The officials performed a booth review during a team called timeout late in the second quarter only informing both teams after the timeout that it had been done and did not return the timeout to the Cowboys or extend their allotted play-clock to allow for a change in plays.
There were defensive holds on both sides that were not called, offensive line holds as well. The officiating in this particular game was absolutely terrible and needs to be called out. There was an article posted on a major sports site (can't remember which right now) that detailed 10 events during the game (8 against the Cowboys, 2 against the Packers) that never should have happened including the reception reversal. This is not the only game this post season that has had issues including the Detroit-Dallas game a week prior with the recalled pass interference call with nearly 15 minutes to go in that game.
Would Dallas have won, who knows but the minute that call was reversed their fate was sealed especially when the game clock was not reset accordingly.
While I agree the officiating has been horrible, Dez did not have complete possession from the time he first caught the ball. Shields was able to knock it loose, so the process of the catch had to start over. It's been said over and over by the league office that the call was correctly made. They are also usually very honest and admit when there are missed calls, so you can rule out them lying about that.
As for the 30 seconds that were not put back on the clock, they admitted that the clock should have been reset. But also, I read that those 30 seconds would have been irrelevant because Green Bay could have run out the clock anyway. Based on when Dallas called their timeouts, and I don't believe that would have been altered with an extra 30 seconds, and the length of the plays run, the Packers could have still ran out the clock.
And then with the timeout that was not given back to Dallas, I forget what was said, but following the rules, it was once again correctly made. They explained it during the game, possibly a Pereira explanation, though I'm not sure.
I'm not defending whether the rules are good or not, but I'm just saying that most of the calls that were made followed the rules. You can't blame the refs for the outcome of the game. The main problem I had was the obvious holds that were not called.
flynnibus
Premium Member
And that is the point of contention - I do not interpret it for him to be taking steps. He jumped... on the run.. and his feet were moving as he tries to land his jump. He did not jump, land, and run. He ran, jumped, and was trying to find his feet under him as he fell through to the ground. That was my first impression when I first saw the camera angle, and is the same interpretation of the league and past league officials.
I don't see how anyone can look at that and say he landed, and then took off running. Looking at his motion do you think he could have stayed upright if he wanted to? His momentum took him forward and to the ground. He did not stand up, he couldn't have stopped himself from falling. He just tried to extend as he fell. Turning your body back up field does not mean you are now in control and running.
Here it's just amplified because of the game situation and location on the field.... people inherently want to reward the amazing athletic move.
Lord_Vader
Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
I didn't state he was running, I said he took three complete steps with clear control of the ball. Personally I think the reviews by the NFL (both games) and their responses are more of an effort to cover and contain than to really look into it. I am not a casual observer and may be looking at it through rose colored glasses but think they got it wrong. While the ball pops out, no question about that, it is during an extension reaching toward the goal after the ball had been tucked which is where my contention is. He was making a pretty standard reach which according to the rule is a football move, especially if you go back and look at his normal reach move which is very similar. Additionally, his right knee was down before the ball hit the ground which effectively renders the entire point mute because he was down at about the 2/3yd line.
Calvin Johnson's catch in 2011 was a tad different in that he actually pressed the ball into the field and lost control while in the end-zone not trying to extend to cross the plain.
BTW, the same crew that made the call last weekend is the same crew that made this call, IMO both are terrible interpretations of the rule.
The league doesn't typically cover up when they've made an officiating mistake, which makes it hard for me to believe they are just trying to cover it up.
flynnibus
Premium Member
All the stuff about 'extending' is irrelevant. You must have a catch first. By falling to the ground as part of his catch - that makes the initial catch suspect. It doesn't matter if you use 1 hand, 2 hands, tuck, juggle, squeeze or tickle... if you go to the ground as part of your catch.. you must maintain control through hitting the ground.
It doesn't matter that he shuffles his feet... he is still falling, not 'taking steps'. He was going to the ground after his leap.. he just has his feet under him vs going down chest or butt first. Moving your feet does not make it running or steps under control.
The only thing that matters is "did he complete the catch and go onto to make a clear football move". The guy was falling.. even if animated and stretching. Hence, his act of the catch was not complete prior to hitting the ground and why he had to maintain it to ensure it's a complete pass. The goal line or where he was down is all meaningless until you get through that first part.
Lord_Vader
Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
And Marinelli too, for three years!
NYwdwfan
Well-Known Member
Just got the update.
Darn, I wanted to break the news.
NYwdwfan
Well-Known Member
Darn, I wanted to break the news.
I was trying to find the NFL thread to post it when I saw I had a new alert and I KNEW it was you!!
Unfortunately for the Jets, a new coach and GM are a start but the solution is going to take a whole boatload of changes to be effective. But it's a start.
They're a QB and receiver away from being at least a legitimate threat. Not that they aren't putting fear in their opponents as is...
NYwdwfan
Well-Known Member
They're a QB and receiver away from being at least a legitimate threat. Not that they aren't putting fear in their opponents as is...
Threat for a possible wildcard but that's about it. Sadly, as long as New England is in their division, they ain't winning it. And with Miami and Buffalo presumably improving this offseason as well, it's not looking good for Gang Green.
By threat I meant to pose a challenge to the other teams they're facing, not necessarily a Super Bowl threat. We'll see how things go. It's the NFL - it's too unpredictable.
Arthur Wellesley
Well-Known Member
I'm sure Peyton Manning wants to find himself a nice quiet beach somewhere to be alone with his thoughts & away from all the nagging questions on retirement as he makes his decision. It's gotta be frustrating having the world asking over & over again what his future holds, when he himself probably doesn't know yet. Hopefully everyone will leave him alone over the next few weeks/months and let him personally decide what's best for his health and the benefit of Denver.
(By the way, I see they've moved us to a new forum designated just to sports. Very nice. I like it down here. It's comfortable, quant, but not too sure how I feel about the Terry Bradshaw curtains in the buffet room).
(By the way, I see they've moved us to a new forum designated just to sports. Very nice. I like it down here. It's comfortable, quant, but not too sure how I feel about the Terry Bradshaw curtains in the buffet room).
NYwdwfan
Well-Known Member
I thought you were actually trying to be optimistic about their legitimacy next season.
NYwdwfan
Well-Known Member
I would love to be a fly on the wall at a Manning family BBQ - the conversations must be so cool.
NYwdwfan
Well-Known Member
And it gets even more interesting:
Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter 11h11 hours ago
New Jets HC Todd Bowles has been planning and hoping to bring Chan Gailey as his OC wherever he landed....
Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter 11h11 hours ago
New Jets HC Todd Bowles has been planning and hoping to bring Chan Gailey as his OC wherever he landed....