lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Cars Land crams three whole rides into that space! How big is Fantasyland at Disneyland or Disneyland Paris?
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
DHS New Roundup Rodeo BBQ sit-down restaurant coming to TSL
- Thread starter lentesta
- Start date
As far a "being in a land" I like TSL. It's a bit too small, just one 700 foot path to accommodate all it has to offer... some of which is too squeezed in.
I like the new France Ratatouille plaza, too.
They both have charm and I don't think either is cheap or shoddy or 'nearly the worst'. They both suffer from being too popular and too crowded because of the draw of their rides.
You want worse?
I like the new France Ratatouille plaza, too.
They both have charm and I don't think either is cheap or shoddy or 'nearly the worst'. They both suffer from being too popular and too crowded because of the draw of their rides.
You want worse?
- The meandering side paths of DAK which basically hide what they're for
- Dinorama
- Most of Tomorrowland, but especially the back end with Speedway (gas powered cars are the future!!) and a complete lack of transition to Fantasyland.
- The horrible layout of New Fantasyland including inexplicable turrets and the awful Beast's castle entrance.
- The corner of World Showcase with the inexplicable existence of the Outpost.
- The layout of Canada which hides half of its beauty and keeps you far from the other half
- The dead-ending of Sunset Blvd
- Animation Courtyard
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
Again, this the whole issue. TSL is quite large, they just designed it so poorly that it feels really small. Galaxy's Edge, as you pointed out above, isn't that much larger but offers far more and feels like it's at least twice the size of TSL.
Most of the rest of your comparisons are just individually bad things rather than poorly designed whole areas. Dinorama isn't poorly designed -- it's actually pretty well designed for what it is; it was just a bad idea (albeit without much time/money to spend). Tomorrowland is a mess because they've let it stagnate, not because it was badly designed from the start.
New Fantasyland is pretty poorly designed, I'll give you that. It still offers more than TSL, but it too was a gigantic misfire.
The overall aesthetics of Toy Story Land are admittedly subjective. I think it looks quite bad and the whole underlying idea for the area was a mistake, but it's certainly not wrong for someone to disagree and like how it looks. It's just baffling that they chose to use that much space to offer so little.
Last edited:
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
I will defend Dinoland over TSL any day of the week and twice on weekends. The underlying concept of Dinoland is satirical and clever - multiple stages in the commercialization and toyification of science, from the actual digsite to the mass-audience museum to the cheap amusement park. It's actually a witty self-deprecating dig at Disney itself. And the land itself is pleasant - winding paths, multiple, varied sections with distinct, thematically appropriate settings, places to sit and details to find, and an overall sense that its larger then it is. The attractions are also superior to TSL, even though they aren't great (unless you include Nemo, which WAS pretty great.)
The primary sin of Dinoland was that the area that was supposed to look like a cheesy amusement park... did. Now, you can certainly argue that's a mistake on the design level. But it puts it one up on TSL, which absolutely does NOT make you feel like you're toy sized on a lawn - the sense of scale doesn't work at all and the effect is completely nonexistent. TSL makes you feel like you are in a theme park land surrounded by big plastic props and bland square buildings.
The primary sin of Dinoland was that the area that was supposed to look like a cheesy amusement park... did. Now, you can certainly argue that's a mistake on the design level. But it puts it one up on TSL, which absolutely does NOT make you feel like you're toy sized on a lawn - the sense of scale doesn't work at all and the effect is completely nonexistent. TSL makes you feel like you are in a theme park land surrounded by big plastic props and bland square buildings.
FerretAfros
Well-Known Member
If you ever want to embarrass modern WDI for their poor use of space, look no further than DL's Fantasyland. Depending how you measure it, it's about 13 acres. In that space, they manage to comfortably fit:
- 5 dark rides
- 3 spinners
- A double-sided E-ticket rollercoaster
- Scenic boat and train rides
- An E-ticket boat ride
- Dedicated meet & greet space (the only in the park)
- A small show venue
- A major show venue
- A walk-through attraction
- And a large portion of the park's parade route with large terraced dedicated viewing facilities
That list doesn't include things that aren't classified as attractions or entertainment venues, like the iconic castle, major restaurant, Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique, numerous smaller shops and food vending locations, portion of the Monorail route, and 3 sets of restrooms.
Nor does it mention the countless charming and memorable (yet unadvertised) small corners that define DL so well, like Snow White's Grotto, the Sword in the Stone, Dumbo band organ, or Topsy Turvy music box. These are all the sorts of things that would get hyped beyond belief today as keys to WDI's design (while ignoring the rest of the space), making them disappointing let-downs in person, rather than delightful discoveries.
Meanwhile, in an equivalent-sized piece of space, we'd be lucky if today's WDI could fit more than 3 attractions, 2 restaurants, 2 sets of restrooms, and a couple shops. Sure, some of changes in how densely things are built today is due to changes in building codes and regulations, but the overwhelming majority of it comes down to design choices.
Even in Anaheim, where the available room for expansion is incredibly limited, they still weren't able to pack much punch into the large plots of land used for either Carsland or Galaxy's Edge. (I'd argue that Galaxy's Edge is the bigger sin, given how much of the existing park had to be modified to make it fit, for only 2 rides. Additionally, the scale of the buildings works for WDW, but is too large when compared to the charming undersized architecture used throughout the rest of DL.) DHS is similarly limited on expansion space, and Toy Story Land fits right in with WDI's poor land use in recent years.
Physical space. Money. Time. It really doesn't matter: WDI uses them all poorly. Cosmic Rewind manages to pull the trifecta of insane budget, schedule, and footprint and impact on the park, but that's a discussion for another thread. These aren't just anomalies any more, it's simply how business is done.
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
I have no issue with TSL's size in WDW. There so much land at WDW to expand into I really don't think massive lands are an issue. What is an issue at DHS is the lack of rides, especially family rides. They need to use animation courtyard and other expansion plots for some.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
If you have ever been to Carsland in California I think you can agree that is feels at least twice the size of Toy Story Land, and it is MUCH more engaging...Lots to explore, several attractions, a sit down restaurant you want to be in VS a windowless box dressed like the queue from another ride... I guess if you had never been anywhere else, and DHS is your first Disney theme park, you could think that TSL is great.... But seeing this as the HUGE expansion it was touted to be...after reducing the park down to 5 attractions for years....This was a pretty sad addition, and not nearly up to par with what they did with DCA's Carsland addition. It feels more like DHS's version of Chester and Hester's Dinoland...but with less humor and wit.
TikibirdLand
Well-Known Member
I've watched a few (ok, more than a few) videos of carsland. Totally better than TSL in so many ways. I especially love when they turn on all the neon. Feels just like the first movie. My DD got to go in 2019 and got mac-and-cheese in a cone from one of the cone kiosks. She got to ride RSR and said she felt like she was IN the movie. I'd love to experience that once the ... uh you know... is over.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
These go hand in hand, though. If you're going to complain that DHS doesn't have enough rides, why are you also okay with them using a giant chunk of land to only build two rides (and one tiny QS counter)?
Building massive lands is okay when they're full of content, like Galaxy's Edge and Pandora (although I'm still not a huge fan of the single IP land in general). TSL is huge with very little content.
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
Because there are massive expansion plots still? This isn't disneyland, large uses of land do not restrict you from building more rides elsewhere.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
It is totally immersive, and RSR is a wonderfully done ride...Lots of fun, and quite frankly I would take that over anything in DHS current offerings. It is relatable, amazing eye candy, and a lot of fun... as is the whole land... Which I also find tons more fun than the two combined new expansions (TSL and SWGE)...
Texas84
Well-Known Member
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
There's still a limit to the total amount of land they can use. If they built three more expansions the size of TSL and all of them only have two rides (not to mention no shops and barely any dining, although that will be remedied to an extent when this restaurant opens), the park would probably be about as big as they could make it and would still be seriously lacking in rides.
Last edited:
That would bring DHS up to 15 rides.
I'm not asking to be challenging or snarky, but what is the right number of rides for "the other three parks" to have to draw the overcrowding of MK into its satellite parks?
Right now, "the other three" generally have 9 rides each (give or take one) while MK has 27. The other three, however, are supposed to have additional drawing power:
- DHS: Live shows
- DAK: (not) a zoo
- EPC: World's Fair / World Showcase.
While the trend du jour is to add rides as part of a whole new 'land' that continues the theme of the ride, what's the alternative?
A new land whose rides are only very loosely based on a very generic theme? A Pixar Pier?
It's a model that Epic Universe (the WDW killer!!) is going to be slavishly following.
Also, keep in mind that Adventure Land only had two rides until a spinner was added.
A new land whose rides are only very loosely based on a very generic theme? A Pixar Pier?
It's a model that Epic Universe (the WDW killer!!) is going to be slavishly following.
Also, keep in mind that Adventure Land only had two rides until a spinner was added.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I honestly don't know -- but my guess is that if DHS was as large overall as it would be with three more 11 acre expansions, most guests would think 15 rides was not enough.
If they actually added live shows to all of those expansions as well, then the total attraction count moves up. That definitely makes a difference. But they didn't add live shows to either TSL or Galaxy's Edge, and they've now closed the Little Mermaid show, so I'm not sure that live shows are in the plans for additional drawing power for DHS going forward. They've already permanently shuttered some former shows without replacement, and the Indiana Jones Stunt Show seems like it will go eventually for an expansion.
Of course, the lack of shops/restaurants/other things in TSL is part of the problem there too, because those also add capacity. Galaxy's Edge has a lot of that additional capacity.
I think EPCOT worked as well as it did with a lower ride count both because it had so much additional capacity in some of the pavilions (stuff like ImageWorks and the shows at the Land and Motion, plus the aquarium) and because most of the attractions were very long. I think that would still work as a model, but I don't think that's in the cards for DHS.
Last edited:
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
DHS is currently sitting around 75 acres and has 9 rides (~8.3 acers per ride)
I think people would accept 108 acres with 15 rides (~7.2 acers per ride)
I guess my point it is until the existing expansion pads are used, poor use of space in TSL and lack of rides are independent problems. One can be solved without affecting the other one.
If this was DLR, this would be absolutely horrible since there are almost no expansion pads left for the entire resort, but DHS has plenty of room to grow.
Phicinfan
Well-Known Member
I am not convinced that adding rides is the only answer. DHS was always my favorite park, especially with the actors on the streets interacting with the guests. More of that, more theming to increase things other than rides would be awesome.
But expanding what they have would be huge as well.
Taking out the Indy stunt show and instead add a dark ride or boat ride Indy style off of Shanghai tech would be huge, and use the parking lot space they were supposedly going to use for SWL.
Updating animation area with some new shows and a few small rides would also be great.
I love the park, I love the movie theme, I can't see why they can't expand that, put a small spinner or other activity over by Muppets as well.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
Oh I agree with this completely -- it's a big part of the reason I probably preferred DHS 20-25 years ago to DHS now. The movie theming was cohesive basically throughout the whole park at that point, from the shops on down.
The park could definitely use more shows and streetmosphere, but I'm not sure current Disney management views that as smart spending. We know they cut a bunch of it from Galaxy's Edge.
i kinda like the idea of dhs moving from a studios vibe since there isnt an actual studio there and moving towards a park that has a central theater themed core with MMRR and stage shows and then a bunch of massive immersive lands dedicated to tentpole Studios/IPs like Star Wars, Pixar, Marvel, Etc circling around it. But I get its not what everyone wants