New Roundup Rodeo BBQ sit-down restaurant coming to TSL

[UNCgolf]

I like Six Flags, a lot, but I don't know when the last time you stepped into a Six Flags park.

You say Toy Story Land only appeals to 5-year-olds, so let's compare the areas for 5-year-olds at Six Flags over Georgia (one of the more aesthetically pleasing Six Flags Parks)

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Absolutely no cohesion, and what's there is visually unattractive.

I'm not saying Toy Story Land is the best thing since sliced bread, it's not, but y'all making it out to be something it isn't, an abomination. Slinky is not an E-Ticket, but it's surprisingly fun, especially at night. It's nowhere near Six Flags, nor is it the worst area in Universal, WDW, or even the top 3 worst areas in Hollywood Studios.

Your hate for TSL is not grounded, it's incredibly hyperbolic. Saying you're so hungry you haven't eaten in 50 years when it's been 24-hours since you've eaten, is an incredible hyperbole, even if it is valid that you haven't eaten in a long while.

Fandom forums, such as these, or really medium of discussion, suffer from extreme viewpoints by the minority because the average individual or opinion has nothing to add. "TSL is heaven on earth" and "Seeing TSL warrants self-euthanasia" are extreme positions that garner attention because they stand out. These positions garner attention from the opposing position because they differ so greatly. No one is going to argue with someone who says "TSL isn't my favorite" or "I had fun at TSL" because they are not extreme positions. Either side can respect comments like these, which is why they're not flashy to make.

Negativity, especially extreme negativity fosters on these forums because they are positions that generally oppose the general sentiment. People who go on a Disney forum must generally like Disney. Therefore, a comment proclaiming extreme positivity is closer to the average sentiment than an extreme negative claim.

You can't sit here and tell me that "Toy Story Land could have been fun and clever, a fitting homage to the films, but that would require more thought and skill then modern imagineering is capable of" isn't an incredibly hyperbolic comment. Modern Imagineering full of skilled people that are capable of designing fantastic experiences? Meanwhile, Rise sits next door, Pandora across the street, and Shanghai Pirates across the sea. Sure, everything WDI touches does not turn to gold, but it's an extreme hyperbole to say they are incapable of anything worthwhile. Dislike TSL, have issues with it, sure, all I did was highlight that a comment expressing immense disdain for a toy-based movie land had incredible hyperboles within it.

That comment is hyperbolic, sure, but calling Toy Story Land the most poorly designed area at WDW isn't hyperbolic. I don't think anything else is even in the conversation.

As for Six Flags -- I specifically pointed out it's what Six Flags would do with a bigger budget. Toy Story Land looks very much like the Six Flags photos to me, just that the stuff is higher quality and there's more of it. It's not cohesive in any way; it's just busy.

Most importantly, as I've mentioned repeatedly, it uses up a massive plot of land for almost nothing. That's one of the hallmarks of poor design. Galaxy's Edge, right next door, has 3-4x as much to see and do as Toy Story Land and is only slightly larger.

 

[MisterPenguin]

That comment is hyperbolic, sure, but calling Toy Story Land the most poorly designed area at WDW isn't hyperbolic. I don't think anything else is even in the conversation.

As for Six Flags -- I specifically pointed out it's what Six Flags would do with a bigger budget. Toy Story Land looks very much like the Six Flags photos to me, just that the stuff is higher quality and there's more of it. It's not cohesive in any way; it's just busy.

Most importantly, as I've mentioned repeatedly, it uses up a massive plot of land for almost nothing. That's one of the hallmarks of poor design. Galaxy's Edge, right next door, has 3-4x as much to see and do as Toy Story Land and is only slightly larger.

GE is 27% larger than TSL.

 

[Casper Gutman]

GE is 27% larger than TSL.

Fair enough. How did you arrive at that calculation? Does that include the Rise and Smugglers show building?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Fair enough. How did you arrive at that calculation? Does that include the Rise and Smugglers show building?

Galaxy’s Edge is 14 acres and Toy Story Land is 11 acres. Cars Land is the closer size comparison at 12 acres.

 

[SplashJacket]

Galaxy’s Edge is 14 acres and Toy Story Land is 11 acres. Cars Land is the closer size comparison at 12 acres.

TSL's weakest attribute is probably its use of space, but it's still ~9.5 acres.

It really is shocking just how much land it uses compared to what it offers.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I like Six Flags, a lot, but I don't know when the last time you stepped into a Six Flags park.

You say Toy Story Land only appeals to 5-year-olds, so let's compare the areas for 5-year-olds at Six Flags over Georgia (one of the more aesthetically pleasing Six Flags Parks)

View attachment 615472
View attachment 615473
View attachment 615474

Absolutely no cohesion, and what's there is visually unattractive.

I'm not saying Toy Story Land is the best thing since sliced bread, it's not, but y'all making it out to be something it isn't, an abomination. Slinky is not an E-Ticket, but it's surprisingly fun, especially at night. It's nowhere near Six Flags, nor is it the worst area in Universal, WDW, or even the top 3 worst areas in Hollywood Studios.

Your hate for TSL is not grounded, it's incredibly hyperbolic. Saying you're so hungry you haven't eaten in 50 years when it's been 24-hours since you've eaten, is an incredible hyperbole, even if it is valid that you haven't eaten in a long while.

Fandom forums, such as these, or really medium of discussion, suffer from extreme viewpoints by the minority because the average individual or opinion has nothing to add. "TSL is heaven on earth" and "Seeing TSL warrants self-euthanasia" are extreme positions that garner attention because they stand out. These positions garner attention from the opposing position because they differ so greatly. No one is going to argue with someone who says "TSL isn't my favorite" or "I had fun at TSL" because they are not extreme positions. Either side can respect comments like these, which is why they're not flashy to make.

Negativity, especially extreme negativity fosters on these forums because they are positions that generally oppose the general sentiment. People who go on a Disney forum must generally like Disney. Therefore, a comment proclaiming extreme positivity is closer to the average sentiment than an extreme negative claim.

You can't sit here and tell me that "Toy Story Land could have been fun and clever, a fitting homage to the films, but that would require more thought and skill then modern imagineering is capable of" isn't an incredibly hyperbolic comment. Modern Imagineering full of skilled people that are capable of designing fantastic experiences? Meanwhile, Rise sits next door, Pandora across the street, and Shanghai Pirates across the sea. Sure, everything WDI touches does not turn to gold, but it's an extreme hyperbole to say they are incapable of anything worthwhile. Dislike TSL, have issues with it, sure, all I did was highlight that a comment expressing immense disdain for a toy-based movie land had incredible hyperboles within it.

I don't know that you properly characterize this board. Were it merely a "fandom" board, it wouldn't be very interesting. There are a lot of those. You are attempting to define a narrow range of opinion as "reasonable" rather then actually defending the merits of TSL.

Saying TSL is the second worst land at a US Disney park is absolutely not hyperbolic. By definition, there is a worst and second worst land.

I will retract my comment on Imagineering. They have declined, and their budgetary practices are absurd, but they are capable of producing things like MMRR. I will redirect my condemnation at Disney's upper management.

Again, I point out that when TSL was strictly an overseas phenomenon, these boards were near universal in their mockery and condemnation of it. It was only when it came to WDW that its defenders rose to the challenge. Florida's TSL shares all the drawbacks of its predecessors - the fact that there is more of the exact same content hardly seems a meaningful defense.

 

[TikibirdLand]

Galaxy’s Edge is 14 acres and Toy Story Land is 11 acres. Cars Land is the closer size comparison at 12 acres.

This is their modis operendi: large area, 2 rides. That's all you get.

 

[UNCgolf]

GE is 27% larger than TSL.

Right, that's kind of my point. It's 27% larger but has like 250% of the content. It's not like GE is twice the size of TSL, and GE itself feels barren in places.

 

[MisterPenguin]

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TSL's weakest attribute is probably its use of space, but it's still ~9.5 acres.

It really is shocking just how much land it uses compared to what it offers.

Disney's own press releases called it 11 acres, even if rounding up. Just like they said GE was 14.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This is their modis operendi: large area, 2 rides. That's all you get.

Cars Land crams three whole rides into that space! How big is Fantasyland at Disneyland or Disneyland Paris?

 

[MisterPenguin]

As far a "being in a land" I like TSL. It's a bit too small, just one 700 foot path to accommodate all it has to offer... some of which is too squeezed in.

I like the new France Ratatouille plaza, too.

They both have charm and I don't think either is cheap or shoddy or 'nearly the worst'. They both suffer from being too popular and too crowded because of the draw of their rides.

You want worse?

• The meandering side paths of DAK which basically hide what they're for
• Dinorama
• Most of Tomorrowland, but especially the back end with Speedway (gas powered cars are the future!!) and a complete lack of transition to Fantasyland.
• The horrible layout of New Fantasyland including inexplicable turrets and the awful Beast's castle entrance.
• The corner of World Showcase with the inexplicable existence of the Outpost.
• The layout of Canada which hides half of its beauty and keeps you far from the other half
• The dead-ending of Sunset Blvd
• Animation Courtyard

 

[UNCgolf]

As far a "being in a land" I like TSL. It's a bit too small, just one 700 foot path to accommodate all it has to offer... some of which is too squeezed in.

I like the new France Ratatouille plaza, too.

They both have charm and I don't think either is cheap or shoddy or 'nearly the worst'. They both suffer from being too popular and too crowded because of the draw of their rides.

You want worse?

• The meandering side paths of DAK which basically hide what they're for
• Dinorama
• Most of Tomorrowland, but especially the back end with Speedway (gas powered cars are the future!!) and a complete lack of transition to Fantasyland.
• The horrible layout of New Fantasyland including inexplicable turrets and the awful Beast's castle entrance.
• The corner of World Showcase with the inexplicable existence of the Outpost.
• The layout of Canada which hides half of its beauty and keeps you far from the other half
• The dead-ending of Sunset Blvd
• Animation Courtyard

Again, this the whole issue. TSL is quite large, they just designed it so poorly that it feels really small. Galaxy's Edge, as you pointed out above, isn't that much larger but offers far more and feels like it's at least twice the size of TSL.

Most of the rest of your comparisons are just individually bad things rather than poorly designed whole areas. Dinorama isn't poorly designed -- it's actually pretty well designed for what it is; it was just a bad idea (albeit without much time/money to spend). Tomorrowland is a mess because they've let it stagnate, not because it was badly designed from the start.

New Fantasyland is pretty poorly designed, I'll give you that. It still offers more than TSL, but it too was a gigantic misfire.

The overall aesthetics of Toy Story Land are admittedly subjective. I think it looks quite bad and the whole underlying idea for the area was a mistake, but it's certainly not wrong for someone to disagree and like how it looks. It's just baffling that they chose to use that much space to offer so little.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I will defend Dinoland over TSL any day of the week and twice on weekends. The underlying concept of Dinoland is satirical and clever - multiple stages in the commercialization and toyification of science, from the actual digsite to the mass-audience museum to the cheap amusement park. It's actually a witty self-deprecating dig at Disney itself. And the land itself is pleasant - winding paths, multiple, varied sections with distinct, thematically appropriate settings, places to sit and details to find, and an overall sense that its larger then it is. The attractions are also superior to TSL, even though they aren't great (unless you include Nemo, which WAS pretty great.)

The primary sin of Dinoland was that the area that was supposed to look like a cheesy amusement park... did. Now, you can certainly argue that's a mistake on the design level. But it puts it one up on TSL, which absolutely does NOT make you feel like you're toy sized on a lawn - the sense of scale doesn't work at all and the effect is completely nonexistent. TSL makes you feel like you are in a theme park land surrounded by big plastic props and bland square buildings.

 

[FerretAfros]

Cars Land crams three whole rides into that space! How big is Fantasyland at Disneyland or Disneyland Paris?

If you ever want to embarrass modern WDI for their poor use of space, look no further than DL's Fantasyland. Depending how you measure it, it's about 13 acres. In that space, they manage to comfortably fit:

• 5 dark rides
• 3 spinners
• A double-sided E-ticket rollercoaster
• Scenic boat and train rides
• An E-ticket boat ride
• Dedicated meet & greet space (the only in the park)
• A small show venue
• A major show venue
• A walk-through attraction
• And a large portion of the park's parade route with large terraced dedicated viewing facilities

That list doesn't include things that aren't classified as attractions or entertainment venues, like the iconic castle, major restaurant, Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique, numerous smaller shops and food vending locations, portion of the Monorail route, and 3 sets of restrooms.

Nor does it mention the countless charming and memorable (yet unadvertised) small corners that define DL so well, like Snow White's Grotto, the Sword in the Stone, Dumbo band organ, or Topsy Turvy music box. These are all the sorts of things that would get hyped beyond belief today as keys to WDI's design (while ignoring the rest of the space), making them disappointing let-downs in person, rather than delightful discoveries.

Meanwhile, in an equivalent-sized piece of space, we'd be lucky if today's WDI could fit more than 3 attractions, 2 restaurants, 2 sets of restrooms, and a couple shops. Sure, some of changes in how densely things are built today is due to changes in building codes and regulations, but the overwhelming majority of it comes down to design choices.

Even in Anaheim, where the available room for expansion is incredibly limited, they still weren't able to pack much punch into the large plots of land used for either Carsland or Galaxy's Edge. (I'd argue that Galaxy's Edge is the bigger sin, given how much of the existing park had to be modified to make it fit, for only 2 rides. Additionally, the scale of the buildings works for WDW, but is too large when compared to the charming undersized architecture used throughout the rest of DL.) DHS is similarly limited on expansion space, and Toy Story Land fits right in with WDI's poor land use in recent years.

Physical space. Money. Time. It really doesn't matter: WDI uses them all poorly. Cosmic Rewind manages to pull the trifecta of insane budget, schedule, and footprint and impact on the park, but that's a discussion for another thread. These aren't just anomalies any more, it's simply how business is done.

 

[Purduevian]

I have no issue with TSL's size in WDW. There so much land at WDW to expand into I really don't think massive lands are an issue. What is an issue at DHS is the lack of rides, especially family rides. They need to use animation courtyard and other expansion plots for some.

 

[Bocabear]

If you have ever been to Carsland in California I think you can agree that is feels at least twice the size of Toy Story Land, and it is MUCH more engaging...Lots to explore, several attractions, a sit down restaurant you want to be in VS a windowless box dressed like the queue from another ride... I guess if you had never been anywhere else, and DHS is your first Disney theme park, you could think that TSL is great.... But seeing this as the HUGE expansion it was touted to be...after reducing the park down to 5 attractions for years....This was a pretty sad addition, and not nearly up to par with what they did with DCA's Carsland addition. It feels more like DHS's version of Chester and Hester's Dinoland...but with less humor and wit.

 

[TikibirdLand]

If you have ever been to Carsland in California I think you can agree that is feels at least twice the size of Toy Story Land, and it is MUCH more engaging...Lots to explore, several attractions, a sit down restaurant you want to be in VS a windowless box dressed like the queue from another ride... I guess if you had never been anywhere else, and DHS is your first Disney theme park, you could think that TSL is great.... But seeing this as the HUGE expansion it was touted to be...after reducing the park down to 5 attractions for years....This was a pretty sad addition, and not nearly up to par with what they did with DCA's Carsland addition. It feels more like DHS's version of Chester and Hester's Dinoland...but with less humor and wit.

I've watched a few (ok, more than a few) videos of carsland. Totally better than TSL in so many ways. I especially love when they turn on all the neon. Feels just like the first movie. My DD got to go in 2019 and got mac-and-cheese in a cone from one of the cone kiosks. She got to ride RSR and said she felt like she was IN the movie. I'd love to experience that once the ... uh you know... is over.

 

[UNCgolf]

I have no issue with TSL's size in WDW. There so much land at WDW to expand into I really don't think massive lands are an issue. What is an issue at DHS is the lack of rides, especially family rides. They need to use animation courtyard and other expansion plots for some.

These go hand in hand, though. If you're going to complain that DHS doesn't have enough rides, why are you also okay with them using a giant chunk of land to only build two rides (and one tiny QS counter)?

Building massive lands is okay when they're full of content, like Galaxy's Edge and Pandora (although I'm still not a huge fan of the single IP land in general). TSL is huge with very little content.

 

[Purduevian]

These go hand in hand, though. If you're going to complain that DHS doesn't have enough rides, why are you also okay with them using a giant chunk of land to only build two rides (and one tiny QS counter)?

Building massive lands is okay when they're full of content, like Galaxy's Edge and Pandora (although I'm still not a huge fan of the single IP land in general). TSL is huge with very little content.

Because there are massive expansion plots still? This isn't disneyland, large uses of land do not restrict you from building more rides elsewhere.

 

[Bocabear]

I've watched a few (ok, more than a few) videos of carsland. Totally better than TSL in so many ways. I especially love when they turn on all the neon. Feels just like the first movie. My DD got to go in 2019 and got mac-and-cheese in a cone from one of the cone kiosks. She got to ride RSR and said she felt like she was IN the movie. I'd love to experience that once the ... uh you know... is over.

It is totally immersive, and RSR is a wonderfully done ride...Lots of fun, and quite frankly I would take that over anything in DHS current offerings. It is relatable, amazing eye candy, and a lot of fun... as is the whole land... Which I also find tons more fun than the two combined new expansions (TSL and SWGE)...