New Rockwork at Enchanted tales

[kap91]

Tgeme

Trying to go tit for tat in regards to how many show buildings are visible between Orlando competitors is frivolous. The point I feel is that Disney should not use the fact that competition has a visible show building as an excuse for their own faults.

Haunted Mansion WDW, 1972

People like to think WDW was perfect back in the day. If the Haunted Mansion, one of my favorite rides, opened its doors with its show building visible, imagine what these boards would do.

Tallying up Uni faults to prove Disney is better isn't a good argument when Disney has the same faults if not more.

In regards to the rockwork, I'm glad Disney is taking the time to fix an issue that to me wasn't even that big of a deal. It shows they still have a devotion to the little things. I just wish they continued this type of thinking and apply it to areas that need work throughout the parks.

Standards have changed though and you can bet that if Disney opened up as a big a ride as FJ with an undisguised show building as large as the one at IOA you would never hear the end of it here: Disney cheaped out, they don't put any effort into anything anymore, etc.

Additionally - the building at FJ stands no chance of ever being less obvious as one side has no trees in front of it and the other side only has palm trees.

Meanwhile at the MK they're fixing a sight line issues that was so minor it easily could've been ignored forever.

Obviously there's plenty of other things Disney has going wrong (and plenty of other thins going right) - but this particular incident is a case of going above and beyond.

 

[spacemt354]

Tgeme

Standards have changed though and you can bet that if Disney opened up as a big a ride as FJ with an undisguised show building as large as the one at IOA you would never hear the end of it here: Disney cheaped out, they don't put any effort into anything anymore, etc.

Additionally - the building at FJ stands no chance of ever being less obvious as one side has no trees in front of it and the other side only has palm trees.

Meanwhile at the MK they're fixing a sight line issues that was so minor it easily could've been ignored forever.

Obviously there's plenty of other things Disney has going wrong (and plenty of other thins going right) - but this particular incident is a case of going above and beyond.

Yes that's true.

However compared to the Haunted Mansion image, Harry Potter is relatively new as well. Let's give it a few years before we start pointing fingers because as you can see with the Haunted Mansion, foliage grows in over time and the show buildings are hidden. I think Disney has done a good job with covering up the NFL area with more rockwork, and while I give them credit for paying attention to the small detail, they should probably also pay attention to even bigger "details" a la Soarin' show building....

 

[Tim Lohr]

Yes that's true.


However compared to the Haunted Mansion image, Harry Potter is relatively new as well. Let's give it a few years before we start pointing fingers because as you can see with the Haunted Mansion, foliage grows in over time and the show buildings are hidden. I think Disney has done a good job with covering up the NFL area with more rockwork, and while I give them credit for paying attention to the small detail, they should probably also pay attention to even bigger "details" a la Soarin' show building....

They should cover the Soarin' building with rock work and say it's the Canadian Rockies

 

[Jakester]

They should cover the Soarin' building with rock work and say it's the Canadian Rockies

I have never even thought of that, I'd love to see it happen.

 

[kap91]

Yes that's true.

Its not Disney at its best, but they at least thought to paint it to match the sky and its a pleasant shape. It's also only visible from that and perhaps one other spot vs. nearly everywhere in the park.

 

[spacemt354]

Its not Disney at its best, but they at least thought to paint it to match the sky and its a pleasant shape. It's also only visible from that and perhaps one other spot vs. nearly everywhere in the park.

The Forbidden Journey show building is painted the same color as the Soarin' building, so I don't give Disney a pass for painting it the "color" of the sky, nor a pass for the building's "pleasant" shape.

And actually the Soarin' show building is visible from more than half of World Showcase. Everything from the American Pavilion to Mexico.

And personally, I think this one is even worse....

My point is Disney and Uni are at fault for the same things. Bringing up the Forbidden Journey show building to prove Uni doesn't care is like the pot calling the kettle black. It's throwing stones in a glass house.

Both are at fault since both have visible show buildings in their parks. The matter comes down to which resort you enjoy the most, because it's clear that will be the resort you'll give the "passes" to in regards to its faults.

 

[kap91]

The Forbidden Journey show building is painted the same color as the Soarin' building, so I don't give Disney a pass for painting it the "color" of the sky, nor a pass for the building's "pleasant" shape.

And actually the Soarin' show building is visible from more than half of World Showcase. Everything from the American Pavilion to Mexico.

And personally, I think this one is even worse....

My point is Disney and Uni are at fault for the same things. Bringing up the Forbidden Journey show building to prove Uni doesn't care is like the pot calling the kettle black. It's throwing stones in a glass house.

Both are at fault since both have visible show buildings in their parks. The matter comes down to which resort you enjoy the most, because it's clear that will be the resort you'll give the "passes" to in regards to its faults.

You make good points although I'll still agree to disagree on a few. Maybe I'm giving passes - I don't feel like I am but ok. Minor Detail though: FJ's building is a white/beige color, Soarin is most definitely blue. And I didn't say I liked Soarin's building being visible - only that it was marginally better concealed.

I never knew Epcot without the Swan and Dolphin so perhaps that why it doesn't bother me. World Showcase and Epcot as a whole aren't supposed to be traditional "lands" like at most theme parks anyway and the hotels have always just sort of blended into the color and landscape. It's doesn't seem like the same thing as coasters from other parks overshadowing suessland, show buildings dwarfing their respective castles etc. You're right that I enjoy the Disney parks more because in my 20+ years of visiting both on the whole they seem to care a whole lot more about this sort of thing, as well as guest experience, and several other factors - not that they're perfect.

The specific point being addressed was that Universal cares a lot more about attention to detail than Disney does. I only brought up the FJ show building because people on the boards these days act as if Universal is the second coming, can do no wrong, and executes everything perfectly. They praise all their achievements and ignore all the mistakes while at Disney shout and scream about the smallest of mistakes and ignore all the good or else complain that it's taking too long.

 

[orky8]

They should cover the Soarin' building with rock work and say it's the Canadian Rockies

No, they should cover the show building with this:

 

[Scuttle]

The Forbidden Journey show building is painted the same color as the Soarin' building, so I don't give Disney a pass for painting it the "color" of the sky, nor a pass for the building's "pleasant" shape.

And actually the Soarin' show building is visible from more than half of World Showcase. Everything from the American Pavilion to Mexico.

And personally, I think this one is even worse....

My point is Disney and Uni are at fault for the same things. Bringing up the Forbidden Journey show building to prove Uni doesn't care is like the pot calling the kettle black. It's throwing stones in a glass house.

Both are at fault since both have visible show buildings in their parks. The matter comes down to which resort you enjoy the most, because it's clear that will be the resort you'll give the "passes" to in regards to its faults.

Yet they "supposedly" go to great lengths to blend ToT in with Morocco. The Irony.

 

[wdwmagic]

The Forbidden Journey show building is painted the same color as the Soarin' building, so I don't give Disney a pass for painting it the "color" of the sky, nor a pass for the building's "pleasant" shape.

And actually the Soarin' show building is visible from more than half of World Showcase. Everything from the American Pavilion to Mexico.

And personally, I think this one is even worse....

My point is Disney and Uni are at fault for the same things. Bringing up the Forbidden Journey show building to prove Uni doesn't care is like the pot calling the kettle black. It's throwing stones in a glass house.

Both are at fault since both have visible show buildings in their parks. The matter comes down to which resort you enjoy the most, because it's clear that will be the resort you'll give the "passes" to in regards to its faults.

That pic of Swan and France does not resemble reality. Due to the lens used not he camera, it has greatly compressed the depth, making the Swan appear extremely close.

 

[dstrawn9889]

That pic of Swan and France does not resemble reality. Due to the lens used not he camera, it has greatly compressed the depth, making the Swan appear extremely close.

about to say, i have never seen this framing of S&D and the France Pav. i dont think i could frame this shot like that? where in the WS was this taken?i would assume b/t mexico and norway?

 

[phi2134]

Yes that's true.

However compared to the Haunted Mansion image, Harry Potter is relatively new as well. Let's give it a few years before we start pointing fingers because as you can see with the Haunted Mansion, foliage grows in over time and the show buildings are hidden. I think Disney has done a good job with covering up the NFL area with more rockwork, and while I give them credit for paying attention to the small detail, they should probably also pay attention to even bigger "details" a la Soarin' show building....

I always get confused if thats the Soarin' building or that huge conference center they have next to England/Canada. I guess from this vantage point it is the Soarin' building, it just amazes me how huge that building is.

 

[JenniferS]

Its not Disney at its best, but they at least thought to paint it to match the sky and its a pleasant shape. It's also only visible from that and perhaps one other spot vs. nearly everywhere in the park.

I have to admit - I've never seen it.

 

[cheezbat]

It's nice that Disney cares about this here. It just sucks that they're hit and miss with sight lines. This used to always be the standard, now it's most of the time, but not always.

As for what I find to be most important is the ride or attraction inside. The theming on the outside is nice, but if you've got a cheap or crappy attraction on the inside then you've lost me.

Forbidden Journey or Transformers>Little Mermaid any day.

 

[MOXOMUMD]

I have to admit - I've never seen it.

Me either. I guess I never paid attention.

 

[CrescentLake]

Photos or update on this?

 

[kap91]

Photos or update on this?

Sorry, can't get to the parks as much as I used to. :-( I imagine it either A) Looks completely the same or B) is done.

 

[steve2wdw]

Regarding the Swan/Dolphin, I've heard that Imagineering warned (and protested) about the placement of those hotels to Eisner, but he wouldn't budge (for various reasons). When they were being constructed/completed, he privately told those close to him that their location was a mistake.

 

[raymusiccity]

Regarding the Swan/Dolphin, I've heard that Imagineering warned (and protested) about the placement of those hotels to Eisner, but he wouldn't budge (for various reasons). When they were being constructed/completed, he privately told those close to him that their location was a mistake.

There's actually much more behind the placement of these two hotels. The most reliable story is covered in another site:

"In the early 1980’s, the Disney Company was subjected to several hostile takeover attempts. In order to fend off these attacks, the company needed an infusion of money -- quickly. One of the parties Disney turned to was Tishman, the construction company that built much of Epcot. In return for the loan, Tishman would be allowed to build two convention hotels somewhere on property. In the end, Disney prevailed and the takeover attempts were thwarted, but many of the company’s executives were ousted. It was at this time that Michael Eisner and Frank Wells entered the picture with a directive to further develop the Florida property.

In 1984, the only on-property hotels were the Contemporary, Polynesian, and Golf Resort (later the Disney Inn, currently Shades of Green). Eisner wanted to build more, architecturally pleasing resorts to lure off-property guests to spend their entire vacation on Disney property. But there was this pesky contract with Tishman that needed to be honored first. After reviewing Tishman’s plans, it was discovered that they intended to build uninspired “boxy” buildings. This did not please Eisner, so in typical fashion, he demanded that the contract with Tishman be broken. Of course Tishman did not take kindly to this and filed a countersuit against Disney. In the end, Disney had to back down but a new contract was crafted. It gave Tishman a prime location next to Epcot but it gave Disney the right to determine the design. So Eisner hired famed architect Michael Graves, who had never designed a hotel before, to create the whimsical Swan and Dolphin Resort. The Swan opened January 13, 1990 and the Dolphin opened June 1, of the same year."

So, don't be so quick to criticize. I think Eisner was instrumental in at least trying to make them as pleasing to the eye as opposed to a couple of Holiday Inn like boxes.

 

[steve2wdw]

There's actually much more behind the placement of these two hotels. The most reliable story is covered in another site:

"In the early 1980’s, the Disney Company was subjected to several hostile takeover attempts. In order to fend off these attacks, the company needed an infusion of money -- quickly. One of the parties Disney turned to was Tishman, the construction company that built much of Epcot. In return for the loan, Tishman would be allowed to build two convention hotels somewhere on property. In the end, Disney prevailed and the takeover attempts were thwarted, but many of the company’s executives were ousted. It was at this time that Michael Eisner and Frank Wells entered the picture with a directive to further develop the Florida property.

In 1984, the only on-property hotels were the Contemporary, Polynesian, and Golf Resort (later the Disney Inn, currently Shades of Green). Eisner wanted to build more, architecturally pleasing resorts to lure off-property guests to spend their entire vacation on Disney property. But there was this pesky contract with Tishman that needed to be honored first. After reviewing Tishman’s plans, it was discovered that they intended to build uninspired “boxy” buildings. This did not please Eisner, so in typical fashion, he demanded that the contract with Tishman be broken. Of course Tishman did not take kindly to this and filed a countersuit against Disney. In the end, Disney had to back down but a new contract was crafted. It gave Tishman a prime location next to Epcot but it gave Disney the right to determine the design. So Eisner hired famed architect Michael Graves, who had never designed a hotel before, to create the whimsical Swan and Dolphin Resort. The Swan opened January 13, 1990 and the Dolphin opened June 1, of the same year."

So, don't be so quick to criticize. I think Eisner was instrumental in at least trying to make them as pleasing to the eye as opposed to a couple of Holiday Inn like boxes.

This story is what I referred to as "for various reasons"...in another article I read, all of the above was mentioned, and yes, Eisner did fight for design control, but wasn't as concerned as their dominance over the Epcot skyline until it was too late. At least the younger trio of hotels (Boardwalk, Yacht and Beach) were designed with Epcot scale in mind.