New Return Procedure at Soarin'

[Dwarful]

I have read all the posts on the A&E thread and now 6 pages on this thread. I still do not see this as a good idea. I am so over the over planning. I don't see the problem of letting people make a decision to enter a line or not enter a line. Give them the information and let them figure it out if it will work with their family and their schedule.

We are a Dave Ramsey family and I don't do debt. I know how much money I am going to spend on food/drinks and merchandise each trip. This year not only did we stick to our budget we came home with $1000 because our food/drink budget was much lower and not much new merchandise meant not too many purchases.

If I am not riding a ride or seeing a show we will take a break or go back and swim/relax.

We are a park opening family. If this test goes through and gets implemented through out the parks and by 5 - 7 pm we are getting shut out of attractions we will be going back to the resort...or worse ....going off site for other dining options.

 

[Roakor]

I have. I own DVC. I go every year, sometimes twice a year.

They just spent at minimum, a BILLION, with a B, dollars, to get ride of paper FP. And now, they are testing out, paper FPs. Nonsense.

Its entirely possible they are running the test with paper its probably much cheaper, faster and easier to do a limited run test with paper than it is to program something like this into FP+. I would imagine if they decide to move forward with this idea the next step would be to add it to the electronic FP+ system.

 

[morningstar]

I wonder if this was part of the plan all along. They introduced paper fastpasses before Fastpass+, now they are replacing the queue entirely with fastpass (in all but name). Maybe eventually the paper fastpasses will be replaced entirely with Fastpass+, and Fastpass+ will be the only way to ride the ride.

In theory it's nice not to have to wait in line. If you could have the same wait time for a ride but wait outside of the queue, that would be great. However, that's not what's happening. With queues, you wouldn't wait from 5PM until closing to get on Soarin'. And you could also queue up a minute before closing and they would let you on. Since you don't actually have to stand in line, more people are willing to wait and the wait time is longer.

If it all eventually goes to Fastpass+, maybe it will get better. With no standby at all, they can give out more Fastpasses. Then just about everybody should be able to get a time sometime during the day to ride Soarin'. Or if you're like me and you're not crazy about it, you can ride Test Track twice instead.

 

[Mawg]

I'm starting to see a lot of post saying let's get rid of Fast Pass Plus and go back to standby only or paper tickets. I like Fast Pass Plus and that is an opinion that not everyone has to agree with. But here is the problem with standby only that Fast Pass Plus should help address if it was done correctly. Better guest distribution. Without FP+ what would everyone do when they first enter a park at 9 am, go to the attractions they want to do the most. The less popular attractions run empty for a period of time until the more popular attractions get long standby waits and people start to do the less popular attractions later. Now enter FP+, with reservations for more popular attractions later in the day, people can come into the parks and start with the less popular attractions more evenly distributing the guests throughout the park. Also, reservations allow guests to stand in line less for those few attractions and experience more overall. Yes, the less popular attractions now experience longer standby waits due to guests spreading out more but overall, all rides are kept closer to capacity all day letting all guests on average experience more. I think they just need more FP+'s not less. An electronic reservation system is not a bad idea they just need to tweak it for more spontaneity and better mobile use, with more reservation spots not less. With more reservations the standby waits will increase but the length of the line will also decrease, now instead of 1000 people waiting in standby for an hour you'll have 500 people waiting in line for an hour because more people are feeding through the Fast Pass line. Yes, there are those and especially on this board that have their favorite attractions and like to repeat them but I feel the average guest likes to experience as much variety as possible and don't repeat as much.

 

[DManRightHere]

There is no current wait time posted for Soarin'... no wait times have been posted since Tuesday

Oh ok. I'm looking at undercover tourist and wdw waits app.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Scene: Living with the Land pavilion, Epcot, WDW. Family of four (mom, dad, son, daughter) Enter the Land Pavilion in Epcot, WDW. They approach the standby line for Soarin when approached by a CM.

CM: Sorry folks, no more people allowed on Soarin today.
DAD: Is the ride closed? I see people standing in the line.
CM: No, ride is 100% operational. We instituted a new standby line queue procedure.
MOM: What is that procedure?
CM: We now hand out paper passes giving you a return time. Only then will you be allowed to wait for Soarin.
DAD: So, we cannot just wait for this attraction anymore? We need to get a return time now?
CM: That is right sir.
DAD: Isn't that called FP?
CM: No sir. This is not FP. We do offer FP+ though. Did you not know you could book your ride time 60 days in advance?
MOM: Actually, yes we did. But we aren't obsessed planners like that. We do prefer to wing it while on vacation.
CM: Well then that is your loss ma'am. See, you can no longer do WDW on a whim. You need to plan every minute of your day out with us.
DAD: Even potty breaks.
CM: FP+ potty breaks are coming in the next 5 years.
MOM: So, you are saying we cannot ride Soarin?
CM: That's correct.

Family leaves and heads to Guest Relations. Son an daughter begin to cry. Soarin is their favorite attraction.

MOM: There there, don't cry. This CM is only doing his job.
GR: How may I help you.
DAD: Hello. We are here for the day and just now found out that you are handing out paper passes for Soarin to return to the standby line. The Cm there refused to let us into the stand by queue, so my family never got a chance to ride. Now my kids are crying. I thought Disney was supposed to be about making magical memories with your family. That is what you advertise all over the place. Now, how magical is this?
GR: I'm sorry but there is nothing I can do.
MOM: We just spent $400 to visit Epcot for the day. And now we are being told, for our $400 we can't even ride an attraction that WDW is offering?
GR: Unless you have a paper pass, then no.
DAD: Well WDW is not about the making magical memories then after all huh?
GR: Sir, instead of riding Soarin, you can enjoy any one of the many fine dining establishments we have here in Epcot or in WDW. You can visit any one of our wonderful shops, such as Mouse Gear or any of the countries in World Showcase.
MOM: So, you are saying, for the $400 we paid for today, we do NOT get to ride one of your attractions, through no fault of our own or due to maintenance issues, but we can do extra shopping or dining and spend even more money?
GR: Correct.
DAD: Well seems there is nothing left to do here. Last time we visit WDW if this is what our money now buys.

 

[dadddio]

Fast Passes were a test once too. So was FP+, Extra Magic Hours, the MagicBands, etc.

Just taking the opportunity to mention that all of those things turned out to be pretty good, even though internet people claimed they were going to be the death of all things vacation.

 

[Mike S]

Scene: Living with the Land pavilion, Epcot, WDW. Family of four (mom, dad, son, daughter) Enter the Land Pavilion in Epcot, WDW. They approach the standby line for Soarin when approached by a CM.

CM: Sorry folks, no more people allowed on Soarin today.
DAD: Is the ride closed? I see people standing in the line.
CM: No, ride is 100% operational. We instituted a new standby line queue procedure.
MOM: What is that procedure?
CM: We now hand out paper passes giving you a return time. Only then will you be allowed to wait for Soarin.
DAD: So, we cannot just wait for this attraction anymore? We need to get a return time now?
CM: That is right sir.
DAD: Isn't that called FP?
CM: No sir. This is not FP. We do offer FP+ though. Did you not know you could book your ride time 60 days in advance?
MOM: Actually, yes we did. But we aren't obsessed planners like that. We do prefer to wing it while on vacation.
CM: Well then that is your loss ma'am. See, you can no longer do WDW on a whim. You need to plan every minute of your day out with us.
DAD: Even potty breaks.
CM: FP+ potty breaks are coming in the next 5 years.
MOM: So, you are saying we cannot ride Soarin?
CM: That's correct.

Family leaves and heads to Guest Relations. Son an daughter begin to cry. Soarin is their favorite attraction.

MOM: There there, don't cry. This CM is only doing his job.
GR: How may I help you.
DAD: Hello. We are here for the day and just now found out that you are handing out paper passes for Soarin to return to the standby line. The Cm there refused to let us into the stand by queue, so my family never got a chance to ride. Now my kids are crying. I thought Disney was supposed to be about making magical memories with your family. That is what you advertise all over the place. Now, how magical is this?
GR: I'm sorry but there is nothing I can do.
MOM: We just spent $400 to visit Epcot for the day. And now we are being told, for our $400 we can't even ride an attraction that WDW is offering?
GR: Unless you have a paper pass, then no.
DAD: Well WDW is not about the making magical memories then after all huh?
GR: Sir, instead of riding Soarin, you can enjoy any one of the many fine dining establishments we have here in Epcot or in WDW. You can visit any one of our wonderful shops, such as Mouse Gear or any of the countries in World Showcase.
MOM: So, you are saying, for the $400 we paid for today, we do NOT get to ride one of your attractions, through no fault of our own or due to maintenance issues, but we can do extra shopping or dining and spend even more money?
GR: Correct.
DAD: Well seems there is nothing left to do here. Last time we visit WDW if this is what our money now buys.

MOM: Let's take the kids to Universal. I hear there's great things going on there.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Paper or virtual, WDW's efforts to maximize resort capacity is an appalling slap in the face to any fan of Disney Parks. The issue is resort capacity. More specifically, capacity at attractions that guests want to invest their time in. The only way out of this nightmare is to add capacity; but, that is exactly what TDO doesn't want to front the bill for.

When you are on vacation, your time is the most valuable commodity. You choose to invest it by waiting in attraction A, B, or C. If that wait is physical of virtual, it doesn't matter - you have voted with your investment by getting in that line.

The thing is that this method of "amusement park voting" has been going on since the dawn of amusement attractions. FP+, PaperPass Minus, close the doors on the pavilion, or whatever TDO schemes up next, doesn't change the voting process. The guest is the consumer and they vote with their feet by getting in a line or finger by swiping on their phone that they want to ride attraction A in lieu of B or C. Nothing can be done to artificially steer someone away from "wanting" to do something popular than something less popular.

In EPCOT's case, let's say attraction A is Soarin', attraction B is Spaceship Earth, and attraction C is Imagination.

If guests want to ride Soarin', giving them an immediate incentive to go ride Spaceship Earth or Imagination isn't changing the crux of the issue... they want to ride Soarin'. If they wanted to ride SE or Imagination, they would've invested their time there to begin with.

This only way out of this is to either increase Soarin's capacity or provide guests with another experience that is available that they would choose to not want to ride Soarin' to begin with. You could increase Soarin's capacity by: adding another theater (preferred option), adding more seats per ride vehicle (not practicle - although 2 people per seat would make for an interesting experience), or (please don't tell TDO I said this) shorten the ride time. The other option is put something worthwhile into EPCOT that guests would want to ride instead of Soarin' or maybe plus the other attractions to make them worth riding.

Handing out paper tickets with return times while at the same time as encouraging people to use the virtual smartphone app is the equivilent of sticking your head in the sand - trying to hide from the true problem you don't want to deal with... spend money in the Parks by putting in worthwhile attractions.

 

[dadddio]

Or, perish the thought, a whole NEW attraction that would draw crowds away from Soarin'....

As much as I would love more attractions, I doubt that your plan would work.

If another E-ticket attraction was built in Epcot, it wouldn't stop people from wanting to ride Soarin'. In fact, it might draw more people to the park. These new people wouldn't just come to ride the new ride. They'd also want to ride Soarin'.

The solution is to fix the capactity problems with this ride, but that's food for a different thread.

 

[dadddio]

This could be a logistics nightmare with park guest trying to fit return tickets in with 3 fastpass+ appointments, an ADR, and a potential park hop. In my opinion, more planning = less fun, but that is not the point of my post.

I can't help you with your park hopping, but if the implementation of what is being tested is done via the current MDE/FP+, working around current FP+ reservations and ADRs becomes pretty straightforward.

 

[dadddio]

I can't comment on in-park experience... but based off MDE... Soarin' has yet to post a wait time today. Yesterday... it never posted one. According to another site, wait times were also never posted for testing with A&E.

'Current' wait times have TT @ 100mins and SSE @ 35mins... everything else seems to be 15mins or less.

MDE currently shows a 60 minute wait for Soarin'.

 

[freediverdude]

But if there's the same merchandise in every shop, how is giving out return time tickets so I can spend more time in the shops going to benefit me??

 

[tsaintc]

It's amazing the lengths Disney will go to to think of every possible option besides building new rides. It's just sickening.

The trolls are most definitely hungry...

Disappear, Disappear

 

[dadddio]

I wonder if this was part of the plan all along. They introduced paper fastpasses before Fastpass+, now they are replacing the queue entirely with fastpass (in all but name). Maybe eventually the paper fastpasses will be replaced entirely with Fastpass+, and Fastpass+ will be the only way to ride the ride.

I think that it's more likely that they will just drastically change the ratio between SB and FP+ so that during the busiest times of day/year, you will have a very long FP+ line that is fast moving and a short SB line that has a very long wait time.

 

[Mawg]

As much as I would love more attractions, I doubt that your plan would work.

If another E-ticket attraction was built in Epcot, it wouldn't stop people from wanting to ride Soarin'. In fact, it might draw more people to the park. These new people wouldn't just come to ride the new ride. They'd also want to ride Soarin'.

The solution is to fix the capactity problems with this ride, but that's food for a different thread.

I'd like to agree and disagree with you. The solution for soarin' I agree is to add another theater. But another E ticket will help. Most guest come into a park and at a minimum want to experience all of the best attractions at least once. With the time left over they do less popular attractions or repeat the same favorite attractions. With more E tickets people will be less inclined to repeat Soarin' thus helping with it's capacity problem.

 

[Pixie VaVoom]

Exactly, and the "calm down" crowd is too busy paying attention to people complaining to even realize how WDW is slowly being turned into a place they want you to shop and eat 90% of the time and maybe slip in a few rides when time permits. What's next, you can get an extra FP with a store purchase of $50 or more?

Geez ! don't give them any ideas !!!

 

[Mawg]

I think that it's more likely that they will just drastically change the ratio between SB and FP+ so that during the busiest times of day/year, you will have a very long FP+ line that is fast moving and a short SB line that has a very long wait time.

This makes the most sense to me.

 

[dadddio]

But if there's the same merchandise in every shop, how is giving out return time tickets so I can spend more time in the shops going to benefit me??

Well, you also have more time to get something to eat, ride other rides, experience other attractions, do M&Gs, use the potty, pick your nose, or whatever else you want to do.

 

[dadddio]

I'd like to agree and disagree with you. The solution for soarin' I agree is to add another theater. But another E ticket will help. Most guest come into a park and at a minimum want to experience all of the best attractions at least once. With the time left over they do less popular attractions or repeat the same favorite attractions. With more E tickets people will be less inclined to repeat Soarin' thus helping with it's capacity problem.

One would think that the multiple-hour waits tend to keep people from repeating Soarin'.