News New Polynesian Resort DVC villas building to open 2024

scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
But we can actually look to Disney Legend, Herb Ryman. He spoke with SAH Archepedia in 2012
" Most commonly associated with Brutalism, the infrastructure-scaled megastructure was a common trope of 1960s and 1970s architecture and urbanism in the United States. In some ways the Contemporary is a scaled down version of one segment of Paul Rudolph’s unbuilt Lower Manhattan Expressway project of 1967—one of the best examples of the trend—which included sloped banks of housing to be erected above a new highway. The resort’s self-contained environment also evoked the growing interest in buildings that confronted the dual threats of ecological degradation and social unrest by crafting self-sustaining and inward-focused spaces that sealed themselves off—both figuratively and literally—from the outside world. The trend had a particularly strong impact on literary and cinematic science fiction."
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
But we can actually look to Disney Legend, Herb Ryman. He spoke with SAH Archepedia in 2012
" Most commonly associated with Brutalism, the infrastructure-scaled megastructure was a common trope of 1960s and 1970s architecture and urbanism in the United States. In some ways the Contemporary is a scaled down version of one segment of Paul Rudolph’s unbuilt Lower Manhattan Expressway project of 1967—one of the best examples of the trend—which included sloped banks of housing to be erected above a new highway. The resort’s self-contained environment also evoked the growing interest in buildings that confronted the dual threats of ecological degradation and social unrest by crafting self-sustaining and inward-focused spaces that sealed themselves off—both figuratively and literally—from the outside world. The trend had a particularly strong impact on literary and cinematic science fiction."
I think he was obsessed with drawing lines, lots of lines but thanks for the rabbit hole

contemp.jpg
 
In the Parks
No
But we can actually look to Disney Legend, Herb Ryman. He spoke with SAH Archepedia in 2012
" Most commonly associated with Brutalism, the infrastructure-scaled megastructure was a common trope of 1960s and 1970s architecture and urbanism in the United States. In some ways the Contemporary is a scaled down version of one segment of Paul Rudolph’s unbuilt Lower Manhattan Expressway project of 1967—one of the best examples of the trend—which included sloped banks of housing to be erected above a new highway. The resort’s self-contained environment also evoked the growing interest in buildings that confronted the dual threats of ecological degradation and social unrest by crafting self-sustaining and inward-focused spaces that sealed themselves off—both figuratively and literally—from the outside world. The trend had a particularly strong impact on literary and cinematic science fiction."
Not to be a stickler, but:
He was long dead by 2012.

So I don't think he spoke to anyone in 2012, unless it was the ghost hunters in his ancestral home.
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
a predominantly monochrome finish and concrete.
A monochrome color palette is a byproduct of brutalism, not a defining feature. Brutalism is typically defined by its exposed unfinished concrete structure (the "brut" right there in the style's name), which tends to be monochrome only because it's all the same material. It's a celebration of the structure itself as a means of ornamentation, rather than concealing the structure or disguising it to appear as another material (something Disney is typically very good at)

The Contemporary, on the other hand, by its very nature required steel construction for the giant trusses into which the prefab rooms (also steel) were inserted. Steel allows for a slim profile that minimizes the gaps between the rooms and is light enough to build on a swamp. Steel allowed the rooms to be constructed off-site and hauled to the building and lifted into place after completion. Steel allows for iconic atrium to retain a light and airy atmosphere. The same approach with a concrete structure would have been prohibitively bulky and heavy for such an already-large structure.
contemporary_firstrow.jpg


It was only after the steel frame was in place that the stucco facade was applied, in order to give a more streamlined appearance. That the facade disguises, rather than celebrates, the structure type is reason enough on its own that it cannot be considered a brutalist building.
contemporary-under-construction.jpg


If nothing else, let's remember that the Contemporary was famously built in collaboration with US Steel, as a means to highlight the possibilities of their products and construction techniques. Steel makes this structure possible. Brutalism is defined by its use of structural concrete. These two notions are in direct conflict with each other.

Also, as a point of clarification, stucco is not structural concrete. It holds no structural value and is notorious for not even being able to support itself and falling off of buildings (see also: current situation at Keystone Clothiers in DHS). A building wrapped in stucco is very different than one made from concrete.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
A monochrome color palette is a byproduct of brutalism, not a defining feature. Brutalism is typically defined by its exposed unfinished concrete structure (the "brut" right there in the style's name), which tends to be monochrome only because it's all the same material. It's a celebration of the structure itself as a means of ornamentation, rather than concealing the structure or disguising it to appear as another material (something Disney is typically very good at)

The Contemporary, on the other hand, by its very nature required steel construction for the giant trusses into which the prefab rooms (also steel) were inserted. Steel allows for a slim profile that minimizes the gaps between the rooms and is light enough to build on a swamp. Steel allowed the rooms to be constructed off-site and hauled to the building and lifted into place after completion. Steel allows for iconic atrium to retain a light and airy atmosphere. The same approach with a concrete structure would have been prohibitively bulky and heavy for such an already-large structure.
contemporary_firstrow.jpg


It was only after the steel frame was in place that the stucco facade was applied, in order to give a more streamlined appearance. That the facade disguises, rather than celebrates, the structure type is reason enough on its own that it cannot be considered a brutalist building.
contemporary-under-construction.jpg


If nothing else, let's remember that the Contemporary was famously built in collaboration with US Steel, as a means to highlight the possibilities of their products and construction techniques. Steel makes this structure possible. Brutalism is defined by its use of structural concrete. These two notions are in direct conflict with each other.

Also, as a point of clarification, stucco is not structural concrete. It holds no structural value and is notorious for not even being able to support itself and falling off of buildings (see also: current situation at Keystone Clothiers in DHS). A building wrapped in stucco is very different than one made from concrete.
While I generally agree that it is not especially Brutalist, I don’t quite understand the argument as it pertains to the construction method. As you said, Disney disguises things, so just because style-accurate construction methods were not used does not mean that a structure cannot still be emblematic of a particular style. We would still call Cinderella Castle a Gothic castle (or at least a Gothic-styled castle) even though it is not so underneath the facade.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The publication was from 2012, must have spoken to the author previously. Or it was a reprint in 2012
It’s not a Ryman quote. It’s a snip from the SAH Archipedia entry on the Contemporary resort written by David Rifkind. The quote also isn’t saying the Contemporary is Brutalist. There’s an entire sentence missing in front of your quote: ”In addition to its modular construction, the Contemporary makes reference to another current in American architecture: the megastructure.” The megastructure is what is commonly associated with Brutalism, a contrast as the building’s innovative steel structure had previously been mentioned in the article.

The article is also kind of bizarre as the top of the entry does seem to attribute the project to Herb Ryman while the article itself discusses it as a project of Walton Becket Associates. It also claims Mary Blair merely developed the color scheme of “it’s a small world” but it’s not a themed entertainment article so I guess that can be forgiven.

 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
While I generally agree that it is not especially Brutalist, I don’t quite understand the argument as it pertains to the construction method. As you said, Disney disguises things, so just because style-accurate construction methods were not used does not mean that a structure cannot still be emblematic of a particular style. We would still call Cinderella Castle a Gothic castle (or at least a Gothic-styled castle) even though it is not so underneath the facade.
The Contemporary is not a work of themed design. It was intended as a showcase of steel and deliberately does things concrete could not. The white finished box was an icon of Modernism long before Brutalism developed.
VillaSavoye.jpg
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
The Contemporary is not a work of themed design. It was intended as a showcase of steel and deliberately does things concrete could not. The white finished box was an icon of Modernism long before Brutalism developed.
VillaSavoye.jpg
Right, my point was that the post in question stated Disney’s construction methods were entirely at odds with Brutalism because they often disguise things whereas Brutalism exposes the structure, but the purpose of Disney’s disguising is typically to theme and emulate, not to adorn by way of the current architectural vernacular. I get that the Contemporary is an unthemed exception to this, but I take issue with the implication that a structure couldn’t look Brutalist just because it utilizes hidden steel in the construction process.
 

scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
Either way, most architectural experts as well as commentary describe the Contemporary as an example of Brutalist architecture. Brutalism can be described as function over form. And the Contemporary is an example of Brutalism. And it was not designed by US Steel, it was designed by Welton Becket. After the atrium design was completed, the archetectural world was ablaze with the construction of the Hilton Palacio del Rio in San Antonio and the fast construction using the prefab rooms. That is when US Steel was brought on to supervise construction. But even they were gone from the project before the hotel was completed. Hence the ever popular Buena Vista Construction Company finished the project.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
They should have just built a storybook castle hotel here. Disney Parks fans have no issue looking at a giant castle visible somewhere it doesn’t really belong.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
No matter how they dress the outside of this building it will never fit into the style of the existing resort...there was zero attempt at making it fit from the beginning...which is a shame. Bay Lake Tower at least includes some nods to the main resort building...and as much as it doesn't match (which it should have) it doesn't feel at odds... The renderings which I am sure are nicer than what will be completed, don't feel or look like any of the rest of the resort. It would be nice to see some more renderings to help explain what is going there, interiors etc...
 

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