EPCOT New Play Pavilion to replace Epcot's Wonders of Life

[Skibum1970]

It's essentially opportunity cost. The Play! Pavilion was a bad idea from the start and would have been incredibly outdated quickly -- possibly within 5 years of opening. If there was a guarantee Disney would then rework it, maybe it could have been okay, but that's pretty unlikely given their standard MO. It's more probable it would have operated more or less as it did at opening for 15-20 years.

Would EPCOT be better off right now if the Play! Pavilion existed? Sure, because it would have additional capacity. In the long run, though, EPCOT is better off if the pavilion sits empty for another few years and then opens with something that actually offers a full pavilion experience closer to Wonders of Life (not in specific health content; just in terms of attractions, snacks, etc.).

Look at Imagination as an example -- if they'd shut down the second iteration for several years to do a full reworking and open with an actually excellent attraction and side activities, EPCOT would have been worse off for the years it was closed due to a loss of capacity, but would be in much better shape right now.

The only reason it's still a potential negative IMO is that the pavilion has already been empty for well over a decade. It's absolutely possible that Disney just lets it sit empty for another 10+ years, and if that's the case, then obviously the Play! Pavilion would be better than nothing.

And Disney would have spent untold millions on it which would have been subtracted from budgets for other rides. The worse alternative would have been that it proved unpopular in the way that you described and Disney used that as evidence that new rides don't move the needle in the way that popcorn buckets do.

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

Similarly the recent Baymax Disney+ series was faced with enough backlash for being "political" that the NYPost reported on it. Specifically the IP being discussed here for Wonders has this issue

Not saying that Wonders couldn't work today, it absolutely could. But let's not pretend that basic Health science isn't something a decent sized portion of this country considers political and controversial. Just look at how many cast members have stories of being yelled at about mask rules during the pandemic. Disney would have to be pretty careful in how they approach it OR they'd have to be ok with the likelihood of the NYPost writing articles about it being political

None of that is Baymax or Hiro's fault as a character! If Big Hero 6 was so problematic then Cali would be the first not to retheme build a SanFransokyo and Big Hero 6 would be dropped like Song of the South.

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

I think it would actually have been quit a positive for the park. EPCOT is desperate for something to do with younger kids that last more than a few minutes. I think the result now is that the place sits empty, and the guests get nothing.

Wasn't the Play Pavilion was also to hold return back several meet and greets such as Baymax and potentially maybe even bring over the Inside Out characters and ofc Venellope would have a new permanent home?..

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I think you guys are really grasping at straws here. There's nothing inherently political about healthcare and learning healthy habits.

In the USA? It is absolutely a highly political issue.
Even the idea of healthy habits is highly political.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

In the USA? It is absolutely a highly political issue.
Even the idea of healthy habits is highly political.

Disney is aware of the typical demographic that comes to the park. Usually large in size and needs a ECV to function.

 

[DisneyGentlemanV2.0]

And you HAD to have an endo ride in the OG pavilion too. If I worked for Disney, then I'd be pushing a revival of it on everyone! Except knowing who the patient is in the new Body Wars is a big deal for me...

Face it - they were just PLAYing us!

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

https://x.com/DreamfinderGuy/status/1764726654117519780

If there was somehow any doubt left, this project is very dead.

Why not here?

PLAY! pavilion Photos

PLAY! pavilion Photos

www.wdwmagic.com

 

[brb1006]

Man the Wonders of Life Pavilion can't catch a break.

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

The fact they did this to Body Wars, which was perfect for people like me (insides are a sensory/comfort thing for me, as long as I know who we're inside) fleeping BOILS MY BLOOD!! And we still don't know who played the volunteer in the main show!! (They only did that to have the riders decide who it was, but I'd like to know the actual identity.)

Haha you'd actually like to know who the individual they used to portrait the human they used for us to go inside of ...yeah tell us anyone

 

[MichWolv]

It has gone the way of Hyperion Wharf and David Copperfield Underground. Erased from history.

Sadly, it has gone the way of many updates announced for Epcot. New China movie, attraction in UK, Spaceship Earth changes, and of course the festival center.

 

[doctornick]

I think it would actually have been quit a positive for the park. EPCOT is desperate for something to do with younger kids that last more than a few minutes. I think the result now is that the place sits empty, and the guests get nothing.

Exactly. Regardless of whether one liked this idea, not having it is bad for everyone.

And even if it had been built as planned, there would still have been the former theater and ride footprints that could have been utilized for something "more" or "better" in the pavilion in the future. It's not like the main floor and activities of WoL were anything groundbreaking.

 

[UNCgolf]

Exactly. Regardless of whether one liked this idea, not having it is bad for everyone.

And even if it had been built as planned, there would still have been the former theater and ride footprints that could have been utilized for something "more" or "better" in the pavilion in the future. It's not like the main floor and activities of WoL were anything groundbreaking.

As explained above, it isn't.

It is in the short-term (anything not being used is bad in the short-term), but isn't in the long-term, unless they continue to leave it unused for another decade (which is admittedly a possibility, unfortunately).

It would be hard for them to come up with a worse use for it than the Play! Pavilion, and EPCOT has enough capacity that it isn't desperately needed right now the way it would be at DHS or DAK.

Building something bad just to have additional capacity isn't a good thing, especially because of how it blocks that space for future development. It also wouldn't be good if they threw up a carnival ferris wheel in the middle of DHS (I guess that would at least be more easily moved/temporary).

 

[Disstevefan1]

I was thinking. So the life pavilion needed roof work in any event. Disney folds the roof work into the play project the cancels the play project and all the work is a write off and the roof is fixed for when/if they ever decide to do anything with the pavilion.

And while it sits there unused, is that a tax savings since it’s not a space used by guests in the park?

I am seeing that, instead of building and growing, lately, Disney loves that tax write off stuff. Maybe the pandemic taught them some new tax tricks?

 

[doctornick]

As explained above, it isn't.

It is in the short-term (anything not being used is bad in the short-term), but isn't in the long-term, unless they continue to leave it unused for another decade (which is admittedly a possibility, unfortunately).

It would be hard for them to come up with a worse use for it than the Play! Pavilion, and EPCOT has enough capacity that it isn't desperately needed right now the way it would be at DHS or DAK.

Building something bad just to have additional capacity isn't a good thing, especially because of how it blocks that space for future development. It also wouldn't be good if they threw up a carnival ferris wheel in the middle of DHS (I guess that would at least be more easily moved/temporary).

There is zero reason to think that anything "better" would come to the WoL space anytime soon. Cancelling this means nothing going there for a long time, not something good going there.

And, again, regardless of whether anyone cares about the stuff that was going to comprise Play!, there still would have been the former Body Wars footprint as well as the Cranium Command and Making of Me theaters that could be used for something more - if Disney was inclined to invest real substantial money in the pavilion. Play! would not have been an impediment for doing additional stuff in the pavilion that you or others could have found more satisfying. And as I said, the previous stuff on the floor of WoL like the Wonder Cycles or Goofy about Health weren't exactly some groundbreaking pinnacle of Imagineering - Play! was essentially going to be replacing that function as smaller diversions. Which is something that part of the park could really use to compliment all the thrill rides.

I also find it funny that people bemoan the loss of Innoventions West when the stuff featured there was of the same type of level as what was planned for Play!

 

[aladdin2007]

There is zero reason to think that anything "better" would come to the WoL space anytime soon. Cancelling this means nothing going there for a long time, not something good going there.

And, again, regardless of whether anyone cares about the stuff that was going to comprise Play!, there still would have been the former Body Wars footprint as well as the Cranium Command and Making of Me theaters that could be used for something more - if Disney was inclined to invest real substantial money in the pavilion. Play! would not have been an impediment for doing additional stuff in the pavilion that you or others could have found more satisfying. And as I said, the previous stuff on the floor of WoL like the Wonder Cycles or Goofy about Health weren't exactly some groundbreaking pinnacle of Imagineering - Play! was essentially going to be replacing that function as smaller diversions. Which is something that part of the park could really use to compliment all the thrill rides.

I also find it funny that people bemoan the loss of Innoventions West when the stuff featured there was of the same type of level as what was planned for Play!

This, which they are more than happy with, to not pay more operating expense and more cast.

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

And, again, regardless of whether anyone cares about the stuff that was going to comprise Play!, there still would have been the former Body Wars footprint as well as the Cranium Command and Making of Me theaters that could be used for something more - if Disney was inclined to invest real substantial money in the pavilion.

The Making of Me theatre was demolished. You could theoretically put a new one there I guess, but there’s no bones to put something else into. Cranium Command’s theatre was gutted, but it’s at least largely there structurally should they ever decide to install a new show.

I also find it funny that people bemoan the loss of Innoventions West when the stuff featured there was of the same type of level as what was planned for Play!

For one, no it really wasn’t. For two, Innoventions West being a loss for the park has nothing to do with what was in it and everything to with the building structurally. They weren’t going to install new Innoventions exhibits in there either way.

 

[mightynine]

Maybe we'll get a return of the seasonal attraction "Wonders Of Roof Painting".

 

[doctornick]

For one, no it really wasn’t. For two, Innoventions West being a loss for the park has nothing to do with what was in it and everything to with the building structurally. They weren’t going to install new Innoventions exhibits in there either way.

You don't think that stuff like The Great Piggy Bank Adventure or Where's the Fire? was in line with what they had planned for the Play! pavilion?

I get that people liked the symmetry of the two Innovention buildings and I suppose the potential to use the space for something "better" (seems like a pipe dream to me though), but in terms of content it seems odd to slam Play! when it's the same kind of stuff that Innoventions West had for years.

 

[UNCgolf]

There is zero reason to think that anything "better" would come to the WoL space anytime soon. Cancelling this means nothing going there for a long time, not something good going there.

And, again, regardless of whether anyone cares about the stuff that was going to comprise Play!, there still would have been the former Body Wars footprint as well as the Cranium Command and Making of Me theaters that could be used for something more - if Disney was inclined to invest real substantial money in the pavilion. Play! would not have been an impediment for doing additional stuff in the pavilion that you or others could have found more satisfying. And as I said, the previous stuff on the floor of WoL like the Wonder Cycles or Goofy about Health weren't exactly some groundbreaking pinnacle of Imagineering - Play! was essentially going to be replacing that function as smaller diversions. Which is something that part of the park could really use to compliment all the thrill rides.

I also find it funny that people bemoan the loss of Innoventions West when the stuff featured there was of the same type of level as what was planned for Play!

We don't know that.

It's certainly possible nothing goes in there for a long time (and it wouldn't surprise me, as I mentioned), but the Play! Pavilion sounded like a complete waste of space that was potentially going to be outdated by the time it opened. Building garbage doesn't improve the park. I have a feeling Disney realized this (that it was going to be outdated at opening) and that's one of the reasons it was cancelled.

Also, if they did eventually add attractions to the Play! Pavilion, they would have needed to fit the pavilion's "theme" to not feel wildly incongruous. That means they'd likely have been terrible attractions, since the pavilion itself was a terrible idea.

As for Innoventions -- the loss there is the building; not the specific exhibits that were previously inside it. The building could have been used for anything.

Again, adding capacity isn't inherently good no matter what. If it was, no one would care about putting Zootopia in Animal Kingdom, or if they decided to build a Wall-E ride on Main Street USA. I don't think it's a good idea or helpful for Disney to spend money on wasted space.

 

[DisneyDodo]

We don't know that.

It's certainly possible nothing goes in there for a long time (and it wouldn't surprise me, as I mentioned), but the Play! Pavilion sounded like a complete waste of space that was potentially going to be outdated by the time it opened. Building garbage doesn't improve the park. I have a feeling Disney realized this (that it was going to be outdated at opening) and that's one of the reasons it was cancelled.

Also, if they did eventually add attractions to the Play! Pavilion, they would have needed to fit the pavilion's "theme" to not feel wildly incongruous. That means they'd likely have been terrible attractions, since the pavilion itself was a terrible idea.

As for Innoventions -- the loss there is the building; not the specific exhibits that were previously inside it. The building could have been used for anything.

Again, adding capacity isn't inherently good no matter what. If it was, no one would care about putting Zootopia in Animal Kingdom, or if they decided to build a Wall-E ride on Main Street USA. I don't think it's a good idea or helpful for Disney to spend money on wasted space.

It’s “wasted space” because you personally didn’t like it? From the little bit we were told, it definitely sounded like something my kids would’ve enjoyed. It could have served as a nice place for little kids to run around and play while their older siblings rode GotG, MS, or TT. And if it didn’t appeal to you (you likely weren’t the target audience), it at least could have occupied some other people who would have otherwise been standing in front of you in line for something else, so you still would have won.

I agree that it wasn’t going to be some groundbreaking E-ticket, but it certainly would not have been worse than nothing. And that’s the only thing we should be comparing it to. They didn’t rip out WoL to make room for this. That building has sat basically unused for 17 years now! There hasn’t even been much in the ways of rumors of new projects close to being green lit beyond this. Realistically, the options were PLAY! or nothing and it seems we’ll be saddled with the latter for the foreseeable future.