• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

News New Park Entrance coming to Epcot

sedati

Well-Known Member
Pepsi once sponsored "The Country Bear Jamboree." They added the line "We got a lot to give," because it was a catchphrase they used at the time. The bears didn't drink Pepsi, nor was any part of the attraction what I would call soda-centric.

Spaceship Earth was originally about the history of humanity as a whole but became communication-centric once a sponsor was found.
Universe of Energy's original solar-focused concept became literal window dressing once its sponsor came on board.
World of Motion was always car-centric but this was due to an expectation of a certain manufacturer being a sure-bet for sponsorship and the pavilion was designed around that assumption. While that assumption proved false, luckily another car manufacturer stepped in for "A Salute To All Motions, But Mostly Automotive."
Imagination was a good fit... nothing snarky to say and I'll even add that the requested color change of Figment was an improvement (but holy cow, "Magic Journeys" could have had a better preshow/commercial.)
The Land demonstrated the most drastic pre vs post sponsorship change out there. Wholly unrecognizable from Imagineering's original concept (not to say they didn't rise to the challenge.)

Perhaps the World's Fair in 1964 was seen as a sensible testbed for this type of project, but that only lasted two years, so I'd say it was not a good example to follow due to the lack of long-term data. I think the closest template Disney had for what they were attempting to do with EPCOT Center was "Adventure Through Inner Space."
How did the relationship work for both parties?
How did the public respond to this more edutainment approach to a ride? (The average guest, not those who used the ride to make out)
How long did this ride/investment last? Or more importantly, how long before it began to show the need for change?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Perhaps the World's Fair in 1964 was seen as a sensible testbed for this type of project, but that only lasted two years, so I'd say it was not a good example to follow due to the lack of long-term data.
World’s Fair were over 100 years old in 1964, The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London typically being considered the first. The 1964-1965 New York World’s Fair wasn’t even the first on that site or the first one in which Disney participated. They also have not stopped with one opening this year.
 

Brenthodge

Well-Known Member
World’s Fair were over 100 years old in 1964, The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London typically being considered the first. The 1964-1965 New York World’s Fair wasn’t even the first on that site or the first one in which Disney participated. They also have not stopped with one opening this year.
how does that historical data relate to the comment the poster made? I think it's a valid point that Disney may have used the success of their partnerships at that fair as a "proof of concept" later when developing a financing and operational model for EPCOT, but do agree that the nature of those temporary fairs may have not given the best, long term example of the viability of that operating and funding structure. Are you just trying to impress with your knowledge about the history of World's Fair-type exhibitions? Just confused what you are saying here.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
how does that historical data relate to the comment the poster made? I think it's a valid point that Disney may have used the success of their partnerships at that fair as a "proof of concept" later when developing a financing and operational model for EPCOT, but do agree that the nature of those temporary fairs may have not given the best, long term example of the viability of that operating and funding structure. Are you just trying to impress with your knowledge about the history of World's Fair-type exhibitions? Just confused what you are saying here.
I’d answer, but you’d just deny saying what you said.
 

Brenthodge

Well-Known Member
So your non answer IS the answer - YES, you are adding pointless info just to try to impress with your knowledge and somehow, once again imply that YOU are right and others are wrong. I assume you are mis-reading the post as "world's fairs being proven as viable at the 1964 fair in New York"? That's NOT what the poster was saying, but you saw an opportunity to jump in and try to "prove someone wrong" even though you mis-read the entire point of the comment. LOL
 

sedati

Well-Known Member
World’s Fair were over 100 years old in 1964, The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London typically being considered the first. The 1964-1965 New York World’s Fair wasn’t even the first on that site or the first one in which Disney participated. They also have not stopped with one opening this year.
Yes, temporary worlds fairs, expos, and exhibitions have been going on a long time and will likely continue.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Yes, temporary worlds fairs, expos, and exhibitions have been going on a long time and will likely continue.
Temporary would be meaningful if they were sporadic. They are at a recent pace of four in the 2010s and one currently scheduled for every other year (2021, 2023, 2025).

But again, you keep going on about what a failure you consider EPCOT Center but never address how New Epcot fixes any of that. Even if we accept your premise that it was an ugly, creatively devoid park it will still be that after billions of dollars have been spent.
 

sedati

Well-Known Member
Temporary would be meaningful if they were sporadic. They are at a recent pace of four in the 2010s and one currently scheduled for every other year (2021, 2023, 2025).

But again, you keep going on about what a failure you consider EPCOT Center but never address how New Epcot fixes any of that. Even if we accept your premise that it was an ugly, creatively devoid park it will still be that after billions of dollars have been spent.
So we just need a brand new Epcot every two years. And while there is a constant flow of fairs, they don't stick to the same region over and over again. These things are a bit like the Olympics and a permanent one might make just as much sense.

I haven't been to New Epcot yet, but I do think one has to learn from past mistakes or at least acknowledge them to move forward. Please find my quote where I said the park was "an ugly and creatively devoid park." I do often post late at night, but I don't recall. Mostly I talk about emphasizing what I see as lasting strengths and severing what I see as lingering weaknesses.

I have said time and again the park was literally my most favorite place in the world. I wore out my copy of "A Dream Called EPCOT," and still listen to the "Souvineer Suite" probably at least once a month. When bored in class I would sketch the park's layout or even Pavillion floorplans from memory- and see how well I did when I got home. But even then I experienced the park through all its iterations with various others who weren't all that impressed. I chose to ignore the flaws for my own enjoyment, but don't refuse to acknowledge them. All I've really done is turn the critical furor that this site treats everything new and looked back on my precious EPCOT with a similarly critical eye and said, "Well... wait a minute."

Either way, while a stockholder, I'm in no position to do anything about what's been done or what's to come beyond pontificate on a message board.

I think we're having two very different kinds of conversations. I'm trying to think my way through this, not know my way through this. It's more fun for me, and either way, we aren't going to affect any outcome. I enjoy your posts and find you a good resource and treasure Martin's videos- doesn't mean I agree with everything you guys say and why would you want me to. This is a discussion forum not a wiki.
 

Brenthodge

Well-Known Member
So we just need a brand new Epcot every two years. And while there is a constant flow of fairs, they don't stick to the same region over and over again. These things are a bit like the Olympics and a permanent one might make just as much sense.

I haven't been to New Epcot yet, but I do think one has to learn from past mistakes or at least acknowledge them to move forward. Please find my quote where I said the park was "an ugly and creatively devoid park." I do often post late at night, but I don't recall. Mostly I talk about emphasizing what I see as lasting strengths and severing what I see as lingering weaknesses.

I have said time and again the park was literally my most favorite place in the world. I wore out my copy of "A Dream Called EPCOT," and still listen to the "Souvineer Suite" probably at least once a month. When bored in class I would sketch the park's layout or even Pavillion floorplans from memory- and see how well I did when I got home. But even then I experienced the park through all its iterations with various others who weren't all that impressed. I chose to ignore the flaws for my own enjoyment, but don't refuse to acknowledge them. All I've really done is turn the critical furor that this site treats everything new and looked back on my precious EPCOT with a similarly critical eye and said, "Well... wait a minute."

Either way, while a stockholder, I'm in no position to do anything about what's been done or what's to come beyond pontificate on a message board.

I think we're having two very different kinds of conversations. I'm trying to think my way through this, not know my way through this. It's more fun for me, and either way, we aren't going to affect any outcome. I enjoy your posts and find you a good resource and treasure Martin's videos- doesn't mean I agree with everything you guys say and why would you want me to. This is a discussion forum not a wiki.
Such a well stated, level headed post.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Original Poster

'Points of Light' at EPCOT now wrap nearly all the way around Spaceship Earth​


Spaceship-Earth_Full_41823.jpg
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Top Bottom