New Orleans Square is getting Flattened

[mickEblu]

You did the right thing my friend.

Epcot is a hot mess, and has been for the last few years.
The biggest atrocity currently is the floating eye sores on World Showcase lagoon.
I'm sure you have seen photos by now, but those barges are far worse in person.
It is appalling how far that Park has fallen...but fools like me still keep hoping things will improve.
EPCOT Center is in my DNA....since 1983.

One positive -
The horrid 'Leave a Legacy' graveyard of stone monoliths that used to clutter up the entranceway were finally removed and the area has been restored to a close representation of its former glory.
Very nicely done, too.
The new lighting display on Spaceship Earth is also quite nice...although I'd prefer it being not so bright and not permanent.
So, not a total loss.

There are still some bright spots, and there still exsists small moments of the 'original Epcot'.....but it still has a LONG way to go to become the great Park it could be again.
Sticking a Marvel roller coaster into the empty hull of a gutted pavilion is NOT the answer.

-

I’ve never been to Epcot but why do I have the feeling that to really love the old Epcot stuff you probably had to go and build that nostalgia from when you were younger or the first few years after it opened? It seems to me like some or maybe most of the attractions people lament are gone would probably have very few people riding them today unlike more timeless attractions like POTC and HM.

I kind of of compare these Future World attractions to Lincoln and Enchanted Tiki Room. I’m happy they still exist at the park for their history and variety but I rarely ever visit these attractions. The difference is these attractions don’t take up very much space and there are only a couple of them in the park where as at Epcot they would consist of half of the park if things never changed.

With all of that said I wish I had the chance to experience classic Epcot and I could be totally wrong. I just don’t see me enjoying a 45 minute Ellen’s Energy adventure more than the new Guardians coaster. I understand though that some changes have been outright downgrades such as losing Horizons and the old Journey to Imagination.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I’m planning to go to WDW for one day in May. Before choosing MK, I also considered going to EPCOT and/or AK. I asked a friend of mine which park I should choose and I was disappointed to hear what he had to say about EPCOT and why I shouldn’t consider it. I unfortunately missed the glory days, it seems.

 

[Figments Friend]

I’m planning to go to WDW for one day in May. Before choosing MK, I also considered going to EPCOT and/or AK. I asked a friend of mine which park I should choose and I was disappointed to hear what he had to say about EPCOT and why I shouldn’t consider it. I unfortunately missed the glory days, it seems.

Sadly, yes.
But I recommend Magic Kingdom for you Raven, as I think as a former CM you will find the differences between that Park and Disneyland interesting.
Animal Kingdom is also recommended, but Magic Kingdom has far more options to expereince and more 'bang for your buck' if you had to choose only one Park on one day.

-

 

[FoodRockz]

Sadly, yes.
But I recommend Magic Kingdom for you Raven, as I think as a former CM you will find the differences between that Park and Disneyland interesting.
Animal Kingdom is also recommended, but Magic Kingdom has far more options to expereince and more 'bang for your buck' if you had to choose only one Park on one day.

-

You're correct. But I do really enjoy AK. Raven, be warned, MK is a mosh pit! DL is so much lovelier an experience.

 

[CastAStone]

It seems to me like some or maybe most of the attractions people lament are gone would probably have very few people riding them today unlike more timeless attractions like POTC and HM.

I’m sure that’s right but the objection is always that Disney could have updated or even completely overhauled the rides while maintaining the core concept.

 

[Figments Friend]

I’ve never been to Epcot but why do I have the feeling that to really love the old Epcot stuff you probably had to go and build that nostalgia from when you were younger or the first few years after it opened? It seems to me like some or maybe most of the attractions people lament are gone would probably have very few people riding them today unlike more timeless attractions like POTC and HM.

I kind of of compare these Future World attractions to Lincoln and Enchanted Tiki Room. I’m happy they still exist at the park for their history and variety but I rarely ever visit these attractions. The difference is these attractions don’t take up very much space and there are only a couple of them in the park where as at Epcot they would consist of half of the park if things never changed.

With all of that said I wish I had the chance to experience classic Epcot and I could be totally wrong. I just don’t see me enjoying a 45 minute Ellen’s Energy adventure more than the new Guardians coaster. I understand though that some changes have been outright downgrades such as losing Horizons and the old Journey to Imagination.

EPCOT Center in the 1980s and even the early 1990s was a stunning place.
Nothing like it on earth.
I liken it to what others must have felt when Disneyland first opened in the 1950s.
Just incredible, nothing compared.

The thing about 'classic EPCOT' is that the Park and its various Attractions inspired you.
When you left at the end of the day, you were excited by what you had just eperienced or saw and you were highly motivated to carry those inspirations home with you.
Talk to anyone who was there at the time, and of a age old enough to recall.
It was life changing and left a big impact.
You came home wanting to make a difference in the world, and were motivated to explore further.
It was so much more then just a 'day of amusement' in a theme park.

Today, there is not much left there to drive that kind of inspiration now.
Slowly over the years, particularly starting in the cost cutting late 1990s, Epcot was having having a identity crisis.
It lost its direction, and changing leadership started to view this once unique place as just another place to dump current IP branded garbage.
Now too much of what was has been outright removed or retooled to promote a brand, movie IP, or simply synergy consumption.
It's all about selling you the latest specialty cupcake in 'Mexico', or lining up for two hours to get a 'Figment' popcorn bucket.
Forget about actually being motivated to better the world and the people around you.
That was the spirit of the 'Old Epcot '....

Today, Very little focus is directed towards trying to revamp things in truly new innovative directions that will inspire the NEXT generation of thinkers, dreamers, and doers.
EPCOT Center, in its first decade, did just that.
There is a reason why many of its past Attractions like the Original 'Journey Into Imagination' and 'Horizons' resonate deeply with fans, even those who never experienced them in person since they weren't even born yet.
They inspire.

The world today could really use some of that right about now.
Today's 'Disney' is now just interested in selling you product, not a expereince.

-

 

[Californian Elitist]

Sadly, yes.
But I recommend Magic Kingdom for you Raven, as I think as a former CM you will find the differences between that Park and Disneyland interesting.
Animal Kingdom is also recommended, but Magic Kingdom has far more options to expereince and more 'bang for your buck' if you had to choose only one Park on one day.

-

Yes, my friend and I are going to MK. Should be fun to compare. We’re only doing one park for one day, but the amount of things we’ve had to plan already has been insane and a little stressful. I’m sure we’ll have a good time, though.

 

[Figments Friend]

Raven, be warned, MK is a mosh pit! DL is so much lovelier an experience.

FACTS.

I would never recommend Florida's MK to Disneyland Park.
Disneyland wins, hands down, on so many levels.

So yes, take heed Raven.
Crazy crowding, rude Guests, long..long...long lines for everything ( except maybe the restrooms...) and did I say crazy crowded?
But since you are coming East and plan on one day, MK should be 'it'.

-

 

[Californian Elitist]

We are prepared for long lines. We’re going to come up with five attractions that we absolutely want to do. As long as we can do those, we’ll be happy. Anything more than those attractions will be great. We’re trying to manage our expectations.

We’ve noticed that the lines sometimes get shorter in the evenings, so hopefully that’ll be the case when we go.

 

[mickEblu]

I’m sure that’s right but the objection is always that Disney could have updated or even completely overhauled the rides while maintaining the core concept.

Right which then begs the question how often do these attractions need to be updated to be relevant with the audience? They started replacing these attractions after 10-15 years in some instances right? We’re people still riding them?

 

[mickEblu]

EPCOT Center in the 1980s and even the early 1990s was a stunning place.
Nothing like it on earth.
I liken it to what others must have felt when Disneyland first opened in the 1950s.
Just incredible, nothing compared.

The thing about 'classic EPCOT' is that the Park and its various Attractions inspired you.
When you left at the end of the day, you were excited by what you had just eperienced or saw and you were highly motivated to carry those inspirations home with you.
Talk to anyone who was there at the time, and of a age old enough to recall.
It was life changing and left a big impact.
You came home wanting to make a difference in the world, and were motivated to explore further.
It was so much more then just a 'day of amusement' in a theme park.

Today, there is not much left there to drive that kind of inspiration now.
Slowly over the years, particularly starting in the cost cutting late 1990s, Epcot was having having a identity crisis.
It lost its direction, and changing leadership started to view this once unique place as just another place to dump current IP branded garbage.
Now too much of what was has been outright removed or retooled to promote a brand, movie IP, or simply synergy consumption.
It's all about selling you the latest specialty cupcake in 'Mexico', or lining up for two hours to get a 'Figment' popcorn bucket.
Forget about actually being motivated to better the world and the people around you.
That was the spirit of the 'Old Epcot '....

Today, Very little focus is directed towards trying to revamp things in truly new innovative directions that will inspire the NEXT generation of thinkers, dreamers, and doers.
EPCOT Center, in its first decade, did just that.
There is a reason why many of its past Attractions like the Original 'Journey Into Imagination' and 'Horizons' resonate deeply with fans, even those who never experienced them in person since they weren't even born yet.
They inspire.

The world today could really use some of that right about now.
Today's 'Disney' is now just interested in selling you product, not a expereince.

-

I see where you re coming from and I agree with pretty much all of this but my question remains. Would large numbers of people still be riding these attractions and would they still be worth the real estate they take up? Why did they start redoing/ replacing these attractions so soon after they were built? Disneyland still has attractions that are 60 years old plus that still resonate with guests. Granted some have had minor changes for politically correct reasons, tech upgrades, or IP infusion. Were these extinct Epcot attractions a tech upgrade away from still resonating with guests?

 

[CastAStone]

Right which then begs the question how often do these attractions need to be updated to be relevant with the audience? They started replacing these attractions after 10-15 years in some instances right? We’re people still riding them?

Some of them no! The original JIA had VERY mixed reviews and short lines on all but the busiest days. Many of the rides definitely needed regular updates because they told of a history that ended at present day, which is a moving target. The conceit of the park as a worlds fair was that there would be sponsors who would pay for those updates. But very few sponsors signed on for rounds 2 and 3. And of the ones that did, you had some like GM that wanted a complete redo that lost the original story entirely. It wasn’t sustainable in many respects.

Still, I think most of us would have tried a different method of resolving the issue than Disney chose.

 

[SuddenStorm]

We are prepared for long lines. We’re going to come up with five attractions that we absolutely want to do. As long as we can do those, we’ll be happy. Anything more than those attractions will be great. We’re trying to manage our expectations.

We’ve noticed that the lines sometimes get shorter in the evenings, so hopefully that’ll be the case when we go.

I've heard Florida's pirates puts Disneyland's to shame I'd hit it first

 

[Californian Elitist]

I've heard Florida's pirates puts Disneyland's to shame I'd hit it first

Pirates is on our list! It’s each of our favorite Disney ride ever. I’m expecting to like it, but not love it. Lol.

 

[CastAStone]

Pirates is on our list! It’s each of our favorite Disney ride ever. I’m expecting to like it, but not love it. Lol.

It’s unridable in Florida IMO. I know others disagree.

 

[CastAStone]

The original JIA had VERY mixed reviews and short lines on all but the busiest days.

From The Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World 1998. Stars are out of 5.

 

[Figments Friend]

Right which then begs the question how often do these attractions need to be updated to be relevant with the audience? They started replacing these attractions after 10-15 years in some instances right? We’re people still riding them?

Yes, they were.

Two of the most popular EPCOT Center Attractions 'Journey' and 'Horizons' were still drawing crowds.
The reason there wasn't insanely long lines is they were both very efficient 'Omnimovers' specifically designed to eat crowds.
By the late 1990s Disney was purposely targeting expensive to maintain Attractions at WDW, and through truly devious means manipulated things to purposely make it appear as if Guests weren't interested in riding them anymore.
The seemingly lower ride counts were used by management as an excuse to pursue closing them, as they were getting intense pressure from above them to cut operating costs.

The dishonestly manipulated ride numbers were the 'proof' they presented to upper management showing that these needed to be closed and gutted....replaced with far lesser experiences that fizzled with time.
The Original 'Journey' and MK's 20k Subs both have extensive stories about why they were really closed, and it sure as heck wasn't because 'guests didn't like them anymore'.
Hogwash.
They were purposely targeted and shifty dishonesty was employed to make them dissapear from the Company's expenses.
Truth, and outrageously short sighted.
All three of those targeted Attractions were timeless....and didn't 'age' thematically or show presentation wise.
Today's Guests would have enjoyed them just as much as the thousands before them did...if given the chance.


Disney, you can really suck sometimes.....there, I said it.

With that all being said, some other Epcot Attractions DID need a legitimate refresh but Disney didn't want to invest the money to do so.
This was confounded by the expiration of many partnerships with Pavillion sponsors at the Park, which left Disney alone to pay for any updates.
The cut backs of the late 90s didn't help, so cheap overlays and removals took place.

Some did indeed needed refreshing...Universe of Energy and Spaceship Earth are two examples.
However, with the refreshes the tone of the presentations in both cases was dumbed down considerably and contributed to the 'stupification' of the experiences and the Park as a whole.
There were better ways to handle the updates, but Disney had seemingly very little interest and didn't want to spend the money required to do it RIGHT.

So they took the quick and easy path, like the Sith.
Thus the hot mess we have today being called 'Epcot'.
A construction zone of misguided vision.


-

 

[Centauri Space Station]

Pirates is on our list! It’s each of our favorite Disney ride ever. I’m expecting to like it, but not love it. Lol.

A lot of DLers on twitter seem to hate MK cuz of DL being better but tend to love DAK for its unique features. Be sure to check out Swiss family treehouse, jungle cruise, splash mt, big thunder, country bears, haunted mansion, hall of Presidents, Iasw, Phillarmagic, Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, seven dwarves, Peoplemover, carousel of Progress, Astro Orbitor, and space mountain. Some are better than DL’s, some are unique and some are just pretty different so it’s fun to compare. For restaurants I’d say sleepy hollow, Casey’s corner, Columbia Harbour house are good quick food options. Skippers canteen is good table service easy to get into.

 

[Centauri Space Station]

EPCOT Center in the 1980s and even the early 1990s was a stunning place.
Nothing like it on earth.
I liken it to what others must have felt when Disneyland first opened in the 1950s.
Just incredible, nothing compared.

The thing about 'classic EPCOT' is that the Park and its various Attractions inspired you.
When you left at the end of the day, you were excited by what you had just eperienced or saw and you were highly motivated to carry those inspirations home with you.
Talk to anyone who was there at the time, and of a age old enough to recall.
It was life changing and left a big impact.
You came home wanting to make a difference in the world, and were motivated to explore further.
It was so much more then just a 'day of amusement' in a theme park.

Today, there is not much left there to drive that kind of inspiration now.
Slowly over the years, particularly starting in the cost cutting late 1990s, Epcot was having having a identity crisis.
It lost its direction, and changing leadership started to view this once unique place as just another place to dump current IP branded garbage.
Now too much of what was has been outright removed or retooled to promote a brand, movie IP, or simply synergy consumption.
It's all about selling you the latest specialty cupcake in 'Mexico', or lining up for two hours to get a 'Figment' popcorn bucket.
Forget about actually being motivated to better the world and the people around you.
That was the spirit of the 'Old Epcot '....

Today, Very little focus is directed towards trying to revamp things in truly new innovative directions that will inspire the NEXT generation of thinkers, dreamers, and doers.
EPCOT Center, in its first decade, did just that.
There is a reason why many of its past Attractions like the Original 'Journey Into Imagination' and 'Horizons' resonate deeply with fans, even those who never experienced them in person since they weren't even born yet.
They inspire.

The world today could really use some of that right about now.
Today's 'Disney' is now just interested in selling you product, not a expereince.

-

I would argue it still has that experience but it’s harder to find. Spaceship earth, living with the land, test track, awesome planet, Canada far and wide, American adventure, plus Ratatouille, Soarin, space 220, Seabase, the new point of light compliment the experience.

 

[Californian Elitist]

It’s unridable in Florida IMO. I know others disagree.

I understand this take. I think because it’s our favorite ride, we have to do the MK version, even if it’s inferior. At least once.

A lot of DLers on twitter seem to hate MK cuz of DL being better but tend to love DAK for its unique features. Be sure to check out Swiss family treehouse, jungle cruise, splash mt, big thunder, country bears, haunted mansion, hall of Presidents, Iasw, Phillarmagic, Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, seven dwarves, Peoplemover, carousel of Progress, Astro Orbitor, and space mountain. Some are better than DL’s, some are unique and some are just pretty different so it’s fun to compare. For restaurants I’d say sleepy hollow, Casey’s corner, Columbia Harbour house are good quick food options. Skippers canteen is good table service easy to get into.

Some of these are on our priority list. Others will have to wait until I return.

We weren’t too pleased with what we were seeing for quick service options, and my friend advised that we stay away from any quick service in the park, so we’re going with Crystal Palace.