Cmdr_Crimson
Well-Known Member
I agree that One Little Spark of The Imagination of Epcot would die for good.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
New Muppet Ride?
- Thread starter ProjectGemini
- Start date
I agree that One Little Spark of The Imagination of Epcot would die for good.
TearDownTheHat!
Member
Strategy
Step 1) Gut Mama Melrose's
Step 2) add Gonzo's Pandemonium Pizza Parlor in that spot
Step3) turn muppet vision 3-D into an actual muppet show with AA's similar to country bears and the extinct Food Rocks/ Kitchen Kabaret
Step 4) take the old hunchback theatre, bulldoze it add the muppet movie ride
Step5) add a Muppet Whatnot Workshop in the store
Step 6) gut Pizza planet and add a sunny eclipse kind of QSR with electric mayhem as their sunny eclipse.
Disney, better get started:sohappy:
Step 1) Gut Mama Melrose's
Step 2) add Gonzo's Pandemonium Pizza Parlor in that spot
Step3) turn muppet vision 3-D into an actual muppet show with AA's similar to country bears and the extinct Food Rocks/ Kitchen Kabaret
Step 4) take the old hunchback theatre, bulldoze it add the muppet movie ride
Step5) add a Muppet Whatnot Workshop in the store
Step 6) gut Pizza planet and add a sunny eclipse kind of QSR with electric mayhem as their sunny eclipse.
Disney, better get started:sohappy:
Tom
Beta Return
Ditto!
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Problem is, The Muppets was a box office disappointment. Not a bomb or even a failure. But it didn't catch fire like Disney hoped it would.
I don't imagine there's still a lot of talk about expanding the Muppets in the parks at this point. Maybe if the BluRays sell like hotcakes...
I don't imagine there's still a lot of talk about expanding the Muppets in the parks at this point. Maybe if the BluRays sell like hotcakes...
devoy1701
Well-Known Member
I seem to remember telling you guys that the Muppets wouldn't be a hit. It's just lost on this generation. Sad but true. The good news is it was relatively cheap to make and it has already doubled it's production budget. Though They did Market the thing to death, so I wonder if it will truly make a profit.
This is perfect on everything! The only thing I would change would be to keep Muppetvision 3D a 3D/4D show, but make it like you're actually viewing the taping of a Muppet Show live. The segments can switch in and out randomly, just like they do with Star Tours.
For people who still want to see the classic version of Muppetvision 3D, I'd show it for 2 hours during each day. Nothing about the theater would change (besides maybe some new effects for the new show) so all you'd have to do is run the different film.
Calmdownnow
Well-Known Member
To muppet or not to muppet?
Marketing techniques have moved on in show biz. To stay current you have to have synchronicity. You can't build a successful ride after the final credits have rolled, because construction takes three years.. and then it'sold (think AmericaN Idol...)
Pick winners in pre-production ad take the investment risk, so when the movie "goes large" the attraction does too.The interaction lengthens the life of the film and that of the attraction.
Gamers and film-makers know this. Disney should too and start using it's power as a studio to reap the longer term gains.
Marketing techniques have moved on in show biz. To stay current you have to have synchronicity. You can't build a successful ride after the final credits have rolled, because construction takes three years.. and then it'sold (think AmericaN Idol...)
Pick winners in pre-production ad take the investment risk, so when the movie "goes large" the attraction does too.The interaction lengthens the life of the film and that of the attraction.
Gamers and film-makers know this. Disney should too and start using it's power as a studio to reap the longer term gains.
docandsix
Active Member
Kind of...
I haven't heard anywhere any word regarding the company's official perspective on the film's box office performance. So far, it's the season's second most successful family film (behind Puss in Boots) in a fairly crowded field. (It's outpaced Arthur Christmas, Hugo, Happy Feet 2 and Chipmunks 3--so far). Given how little it cost to make (definitely the least of all those listed above), I'd consider it a relative success.
Compare it to, say, Mission: Impossible--Ghost Protocol. The Muppets will have doubled its production costs by the end of its run, whereas the season's big action film(s) will never have a chance of this. And yet, if M:I 4 makes in the neighborhood of $225-250 million (possible, but not at all guaranteed, and well south of twice its production costs), everyone will say it was a smashing success. Sequels for this franchise--which will sell just about ZERO toys, T-shirts and associated paraphernalia--are already under discussion.
That and, unadjusted for inflation, The Muppets is easily the highest-grossing puppet movie of all time and the probably the second best of the franchise when adjusted for inflation, behind just the original Muppet Movie.
I hope the suits consider all of this when considering where to take the franchise from here and whether to promote the brand in the parks.
(Incidentally, I saw The Muppets for the second time yesterday, and the theater was absolutely packed, over a month after its release.)
I haven't heard anywhere any word regarding the company's official perspective on the film's box office performance. So far, it's the season's second most successful family film (behind Puss in Boots) in a fairly crowded field. (It's outpaced Arthur Christmas, Hugo, Happy Feet 2 and Chipmunks 3--so far). Given how little it cost to make (definitely the least of all those listed above), I'd consider it a relative success.
Compare it to, say, Mission: Impossible--Ghost Protocol. The Muppets will have doubled its production costs by the end of its run, whereas the season's big action film(s) will never have a chance of this. And yet, if M:I 4 makes in the neighborhood of $225-250 million (possible, but not at all guaranteed, and well south of twice its production costs), everyone will say it was a smashing success. Sequels for this franchise--which will sell just about ZERO toys, T-shirts and associated paraphernalia--are already under discussion.
That and, unadjusted for inflation, The Muppets is easily the highest-grossing puppet movie of all time and the probably the second best of the franchise when adjusted for inflation, behind just the original Muppet Movie.
I hope the suits consider all of this when considering where to take the franchise from here and whether to promote the brand in the parks.
(Incidentally, I saw The Muppets for the second time yesterday, and the theater was absolutely packed, over a month after its release.)
lebeau
Well-Known Member
All things are relative. But all of those movies you named are also considered disappointments.
Muppets will probably turn a profit because it didn't cost much to make (again, relatively speaking). But they marketed the heck out of that thing and had to be expecting a bigger return on that marketing dollar.
They aren't going to give up on the Muppet franchise of anything. But I'd be surprised if we see a sequel unless. Odds are it's back to viral videos and TV for Kermit and the gang. At least for a while.
You're ignoring a lot here. The marketing costs are a big part of the equation. Especially for The Muppets. For an action movie like MI4, domestic is important. But worldwide gross is even more so. MI4 is already over 200 mil worldwide. It is legitimately a smashing success.
On the other hand, The Muppets will make a small profit at the domestic box office and barely made a dent overseas. Disney will make some more money off video and toys. But they were selling Muppets toys before the movie too. They'll make a few bucks, but they aren't going to be chomping at the bit to roll the dice on a Muppets sequel when the first one provided such meager returns.
I'm going to assume you realize that is a worthless record even if it is true.
That's probably because the other family films of the season were also disappointments and The Muppets is on fewer screens so late in its run. I'm sure it wasn't in one of the multiplex's big houses.
But hey, I love the Muppets. I was rooting for it to succeed. And I'm as bummed as anyone that it wasn't a smash. I'm glad it didn't tank. And I'm sure Disney will do more with them. But the box office just doesn't justify the financial risk of making a sequel.
Like I said before, Disney will have to sell a LOT of Blurays to greenlight a sequel. It's the same situation Tron Legacy was in last year.
By the way, Disney has a lousy track record of launching franchises.
midwest_mice
Well-Known Member
What they really need for the muppets is an actually show with the puppets, like Disney Live on Stage. Have the voices all pre-recorded and have different sets from the original Muppet Show. From Kermit's backstage area to a musical number. Would be cool to see the Mayhem band!
This could be done with animatronics too incorporated into a dark ride. And the grand finale could have Gonzo being shot from a cannon, only he doesn't shoot out as his hooked nose snags something.
This could be done with animatronics too incorporated into a dark ride. And the grand finale could have Gonzo being shot from a cannon, only he doesn't shoot out as his hooked nose snags something.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
It shouldn't be to those who know Muppet movie precedent. I'm honestly wondering what was Disney's expectation for this? $100 million, $125 million, $150 million domestically? Only one Muppet movie has made more than $35 million in the US without adjusting for inflation, and that's the first one. Even "Manhattan"" and "Caper" in the character's 80s "peak" only made $25 and $31 million, which still isn't much when adjusting for inflation. "Christmas Carol" made $27 million, "Treasure Island" $34 million and "From Space" a terrible $16 million.
The new one has made $77 million in the US so far, without the type of 3D tickets that boost family movie earnings these days. That's great for a franchise declared dead in '99 and even compared to the 1980s. The reviews aren't too bad either, not that that really counts for anything these days.
However, I could see why it wouldn't be when you want anything "franchiseable" to hit $200 million domestically and you're the same group who thought putting out a new Pooh movie on the day Harry Potter 8 came out was a smart idea.
I guess the point of this rant is that Disney shouldn't feel too bad about its performance even if they do (which I haven't seen much of one way or the other). But since the run isn't done yet (do all foreign territories play it yet?) and the home video release is still months away it's hard for anyone suggest how successful the investment is at this point, IMO.
docandsix
Active Member
OK, but...
...it's also going to beat Tintin (or so it would seem), at least domestically, anyway.
So, in a season surprisingly over-saturated with family films--many of them very, very well-reviewed--The Muppets wins the critical battle and finishes with the silver (or maybe bronze) medal at the box office. Again, as another poster noted, not bad at all for a franchise declared dead well over a decade ago.
My sense (and prejudice as well, because I also love the Muppets) is that Disney need only commit some time, energy and money in bringing these characters back to the public's consciousness, and the franchise will revitalize nicely. This film represents a nice opening salvo, if only Disney is willing to wage the war.
...it's also going to beat Tintin (or so it would seem), at least domestically, anyway.
So, in a season surprisingly over-saturated with family films--many of them very, very well-reviewed--The Muppets wins the critical battle and finishes with the silver (or maybe bronze) medal at the box office. Again, as another poster noted, not bad at all for a franchise declared dead well over a decade ago.
My sense (and prejudice as well, because I also love the Muppets) is that Disney need only commit some time, energy and money in bringing these characters back to the public's consciousness, and the franchise will revitalize nicely. This film represents a nice opening salvo, if only Disney is willing to wage the war.
Nemofinder
Member
they were all over the disneyworld christmas day parade
Um...Tintin just opened, so I'm not sure how you can say how well it will do yet.
I'm sure Disney's expectations were that this thing would make $200+. However, when a franchise powerhouse like the Chipmunks comes out and basically fizzles, you know the field is just way too crowded for any movie to be successful. The problem this year was that every movie was decent and there was no phenomenal flick in the bunch that would separate itself from the rest. Given it's success compared to the others, I'd say the Muppets was as close as you'd get to a success this year.
If they can make a $50-$100 dollar profit by putting out sequels every two years (between theatrical and home video releases), I'm sure they'll do it. I really think this movie broke down a lot of doors and momentum will build from the home video release and cable airings.
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting point. For all the dough Disney puts into advertising and media tie-ins for their various "tentpole" releases, they sure don't get a proportionate box office, do they? Tron, Prince of Persia, Muppets, Princess and the Frog... all of which had between bomb-worthy (Persia) and lukewarm (Tron) returns. It seems their biggest modern hits were rather unexpected, or even accidental (Cars, Tangled, the first Pirates).
I wonder why that is? Marvel's never had trouble hyping up their releases and surrounding merchandise for each of their major releases.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Even Tangled was a bit soft. The only non-Pixar, non-Marvel franchise Disney has successfully launched in recent years is Pirates. And as you say, that happened largely by accident. They have been trying (and failing) to duplicate that accident ever since.
Tim Burton's Alice was a similar surprise hit, but Disney failed to turn it into a franchise. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe seemed like the start of a franchise until Disney mismanaged it with the second film.
You can go back further. The original Tron, The Black Hole, ________ Tracy, The Rocketeer.... The list goes on and on. Disney has a horrid track record for starting franchises. That's part of why the Marvel purchase was so attractive to them. They were buying pre-made, pre-sold franchises.
As much as Disney talks about franchises, you would think they would be better at them. They make franchises the key to their strategy, but they can't get them right. Anyone want to bet on whether or not John Carter breaks the trend? The Lone Ranger maybe?
The Muppets was meant to reinvigorate the franchise. Disney was looking for numbers like The Smurfs or Alvin and the Chipmunks (1 and 2 anyway). Obviously, that's not going to happen. So in that respect, the film is a disappointment.
But it's not a bomb. It made money and raised awareness of the franchise. If the Bluray sales are good, Disney will look at that as a positive sign and may greenlight a sequel.
Disney's not done with The Muppets by any stretch. They know there's money to be mined. The 2011 Muppets was supposed to turn the Muppet franchise into a cash cow they could milk for a while. That didn't happen. So Disney will consider how best to nurture the Muppets into that cash cow.
My money's on more TV appearances before another movie. And unless those Blurays sell really well, I figure they will go back to the drawing board before the next Muppet movie as opposed to doing a true sequel with Segel and company. I wouldn't bet on an expanded presence in the theme parks any time soon.
(All of this is obviously my speculation and I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong a lot when I make these kinds of predicitions. I thought Avatar would be Cameron's expensive flop.)
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Really, going back to 1979 for comparison is flawed. The box office game has changed dramatically since the first Muppet Movie. Back then, you could have a little movie that made a tidy profit and the studio would be thrilled. These days, the studios gamble big and a small payoff is viewed as a failure. If they don't make their money back in the opening weekend, they are not happy.
I remember realizing the game had changed when the first Mission Impossible opened on a record number of screens in 1996. Since then, the studios have become more and more obsessed with the opening weekend. Theatrical runs have gotten shorter and shorter. You rarely see a movie with real legs any more. Becuase the studios have conditioned audiences to go opening weekend or wait for video a few months later.
Adjusted for inflation, here are the Muppets franchise grosses acording to Box Office Mojo:
Rank Title Adjusted Gross Release
1 The Muppet Movie $206,769,700 6/22/79
2 The Great Muppet Caper $89,353,200 6/26/81
3 The Muppets $77,019,400 11/23/11
4 Muppet Treasure Island $61,820,400 2/16/96
5 The Muppets Take Manhattan $60,492,900 7/13/84
6 The Muppet Christmas Carol $52,354,200 12/11/92
7 Muppets from Space $26,051,500 7/14/99
Odds are The Muppets will overtake The Great Muppet Caper on the adjusted for inflation list. And that's respectable. But you can bet Disney was hoping for more.
TropicalFig8
Active Member
Murphketeer
Member
We love the muppets. Our family would love to see another show.