Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

Nextinline

Well-Known Member
Mother nature had a hand in where things ended up. Massive land projects like SSL to mine enough fill for a park took forever and cost a bunch. Much easier to put the parks on the high ground.
So maybe Walt is to blame after all for choosing a poor plot of land?
The Orlando metropolitan area seems to be developed in a way that isn't impacted by the topography or swamps. Most of the city and suburban areas are regular grids and fully planned neighborhoods. It seems like WDW could have been laid out anyway they wanted.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
EPCOT Center was built on the site of EPCOT, so that made some sense.
Yeah, but it wasn't EPCOT. It was a nice thought, but they probably would've been better off letting go of EPCOT much sooner if they weren't going to commit to it. The concept has basically been dying a slow, painful, drawn out death for the last 40 years. All that's really left now is the name.
 

imarc

Well-Known Member
So maybe Walt is to blame after all for choosing a poor plot of land?
The Orlando metropolitan area seems to be developed in a way that isn't impacted by the topography or swamps. Most of the city and suburban areas are regular grids and fully planned neighborhoods. It seems like WDW could have been laid out anyway they wanted.

There are also lots of permanent undeveloped areas for each new neighborhood built that cannot be developed - either because of the difficulty or because of local ordinance. I've always understood that Disney needs to maintain greenspace just like any other developer. They can't just develop all of their property even if they want to fill every swamp. I think they've even had to buy additional land to make protected so that they could develop on existing space.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I think things would've turned out a lot better had they not built Epcot so far away. Ideally they could've built everything in that MK area and had a really nice self contained resort and just sold off all the remaining land.
Well, World showcase was originally south of the TTC.
images
 

Nextinline

Well-Known Member
There are also lots of permanent undeveloped areas for each new neighborhood built that cannot be developed - either because of the difficulty or because of local ordinance. I've always understood that Disney needs to maintain greenspace just like any other developer. They can't just develop all of their property even if they want to fill every swamp. I think they've even had to buy additional land to make protected so that they could develop on existing space.
You're right, this is true for land development across the country. Most ordinances require a certain % of green space as well as dedicated drainage and water retention areas, particular in Florida. You're also correct in that most neighborhoods in Orlando have clearly allocated such areas. Even WDW you can tell where these are. However, this doesn't explain the lack of coherent urban planning across WDW property. WDW has complete reign over their property and could have designated land development areas in such a way that they can easily be interconnected. They managed for over a decade, then things started to slip until now almost nothing is connected in a convenient way.
 

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
I think the location of the TTC hasnt helped the monorail. From what I’ve seen of the original walt era plans i think people were going to leave their cars at the entrance complex area and use disney transportation throughout the property. The original resort as built kind of did this on a smaller scale with the TTC at the entrance to the developed resort area.

Once the resort expanded to the village area and the monorail wasnt expanded it was the beginning of the end. A monorail/ wedway system throughout the village / hotel plaza area would have cemented the system and established the concept for future expansions but creating a whole area dependent on buses set the precedent for cheaper sprawling bus dependant development. Epcot was the sole exception but here the monorail was more of an attraction and window dressing for future world than serious transportation.

Having an epcot based ttc would have been a better idea with lines to the various park and resort areas but i cant this ever happening now, realistically the future of transportation could be some form of automated PRT if Disney ever replace the buses.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
A million dollars a mile. (Note: for what they spent on MDE/MM+/MBs, they could have built a monorail to Washington, DC.)
Often quoted figure but is it accurate?
Six lane highway is approaching that number. Maybe but I think your 1M number may be 20 years old?
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Often quoted figure but is it accurate?
Six lane highway is approaching that number. Maybe but I think your 1M number may be 20 years old?
It's sort of a double problem when comparing. As you say the 1M number is probably beyond 20 years ago and the MDE number has been grabbed out of the air on the discussion boards. It started out at a high, but, understandable estimate and every single time it was mentioned the number got higher and higher and higher until it would have been cheaper to buy a small country then that system. Want to know the funny part, and I would bet the farm on this, not a single one of those estimates were given by anyone that actually had direct access to any cost numbers at Disney itself. Just wild a$$, shock intended numbers pulled out of that very same butt. What did it cost? I don't know and I doubt that anyone will ever know and it not only doesn't matter it quite frankly is no ones business other then Disney's.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
It's sort of a double problem when comparing. As you say the 1M number is probably beyond 20 years ago and the MDE number has been grabbed out of the air on the discussion boards. It started out at a high, but, understandable estimate and every single time it was mentioned the number got higher and higher and higher until it would have been cheaper to buy a small country then that system. Want to know the funny part, and I would bet the farm on this, not a single one of those estimates were given by anyone that actually had direct access to any cost numbers at Disney itself. Just wild a$$, shock intended numbers pulled out of that very same butt. What did it cost? I don't know and I doubt that anyone will ever know and it not only doesn't matter it quite frankly is no ones business other then Disney's.
The MDE number wasn't just grabbed out of the air. Disney is a publicly traded company and they have public conference calls every quarter so that they can explain things exactly like that, large expenditures, profits, losses, etc. Countless reputable news organizations also quoted the number it definitely didn't come from discussion boards. And yes it is other peoples business, specifically investors.
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
I think things would've turned out a lot better had they not built Epcot so far away. Ideally they could've built everything in that MK area and had a really nice self contained resort and just sold off all the remaining land.

I agree with this to a point. Building Epcot closer would have made more sense. At the time, there was no such thing as a multi-park destination (Maybe Six Flags Great Adventure in NJ - I think that was an amusement park plus safari at the time - separate tickets).

The monorail is awesome around the Seven Seas Lagoon. There's always something to look at. You get to go through a hotel! That, in and of itself, was cool.

The Epcot monorail largely sucks between the TTC and the Epcot parking lot where you finally have something to look at. It's fantastic as it circles through Epcot. Outside of Epcot, it's just normal transportation going through the woods and is kind of boring. Look, another pine tree! A road!

Clustering the resort closer together would have made the Monorail and the Peoplemover much more applicable.

For those who say that they didn't built a transit system: They did, just like every other city: buses. They, unfortunately, make a lot more sense. They can stack them up where needed or take them offline easily. They don't have to run all of the buses all day long - just what they need. The monorail is counter to that in that once they have the lines loaded, it's more of an ordeal to unload them / switch things up.

Regarding selling off the rest of the land: I disagree with this because they have their special deal with Florida (their own district) and in having that, to me at least, it would have made much more sense to open more of it up earlier as an industrial park. Lure companies in with: You can pretty much build what you want with a LOT less hassle.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Regarding selling off the rest of the land: I disagree with this because they have their special deal with Florida (their own district) and in having that, to me at least, it would have made much more sense to open more of it up earlier as an industrial park. Lure companies in with: You can pretty much build what you want with a LOT less hassle.
They've actually pretty much continually had some land selling project going on since they opened. They are selling off the land they're just doing it slowly. Celebration was one of the larger land selling projects. As for RCID anytime they are planning to sell they simply de-annex that area from the district. Actually they sold the majority of the land to RCID itself long ago. Most of what they call conservation land was sold to the district. Disney actually owns far less land than most people realize, which makes sense because you just don't need that much land for a theme park resort. I agree it would've been nice if they could've done something like the industrial park. I just don't know that the EPCOT elements really work when they're not all part of the same plan. Much like Celebration being just a housing development, I wonder if it would've just been an industrial area and nothing special.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
The MDE number wasn't just grabbed out of the air. Disney is a publicly traded company and they have public conference calls every quarter so that they can explain things exactly like that, large expenditures, profits, losses, etc. Countless reputable news organizations also quoted the number it definitely didn't come from discussion boards. And yes it is other peoples business, specifically investors.
Perhaps eventually it became public, but, initially it was not verified, it was just spewed out as fact. It was not and I don't think that there was any way for anybody to know exactly what parts of that system were isolated and explained. When it was being reported and the last number we have has never, to my knowledge, been proven to be the correct number. It is just what those opposed to upgrading a system that was much in need of upgrading could use to illustrate erroneously, how much the new FP system costs, when it was so much more then just FP, but, nothing that anyone wanted to acknowledge for fear that it might make more sense with the actual facts. Things in those reports are listed under headings without any real solid individual example of costs. Besides the investor is only interested in the bottom line and how much of a dividend they are going to get. How it got there is of very little physical concern. The rest of the public should have no concern about it at all. All they have to know is that the resort exists and how much it is going to cost to go there. The rest is irrelevant.
 

orky8

Well-Known Member
A million dollars a mile. (Note: for what they spent on MDE/MM+/MBs, they could have built a monorail to Washington, DC.)
This number is not remotely close to accurate. I doubt that would even cover the beam, let alone stations and trains. If it cost only $1M per mile, we’d have monorails everywhere.
 

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
There are posters around here who know the real FP+/MDE numbers. They just aren't at liberty to divulge them, like a lot of other things they know. Just because certain other people think the numbers mentioned are made up/wrong, doesn't mean they are. :rolleyes:

The $1 million/mile number is definitely old and inaccurate. If that were still the case today, they could have built 200 miles of monorail for the (rumored) price of the Skyliner lines.

And there are people who visit WDW to ride the monorail, whether you choose to believe it or not. Not exclusively, obviously, but it's an integral part of the experience for many guests. They don't market it as a feature of 3 (or now 6, really) resorts for nothing. In fact, it's one of the two most memorable things to kids these days, along with the pools. It's also integral to several resorts and to transporting people in and around the Magic Kingdom area. So anyone saying the monorail could be "easily removed and replaced" is foolish and is using some pretty narrow-minded "thinking" (and I hesitate to even use that word here). It would be disruptive, at the absolute minimum, and more likely destructive to the area as a whole. I'm not going to get into a debate around this, as I do have an emotional tie to the WDW monorail (but I can also look at it from a logical standpoint). Agree to disagree and move on.
 

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