Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

Robbiem

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
Flalex72 said:
If Bombardier is the only company that can supply new monorails, there could be a timing issue. The Bombardier plant just outside Kingston, Ontario is their monorail production facility in North America, and though it has significant test capabilities, it is not a large manufacturing centre. Due to significant issues at their Thunder Bay plant with the production of streetcars for Toronto's TTC causing major delays, Bombardier has begun production of LRVs for Toronto's Metrolinx, Waterloo's GRT/ion, and Edmonton's ETS at the Kingston Plant, a significant expansion. On top of this, they are also beginning to build additional TTC streetcars in Kingston. All of these customers are significant for Bombardier, and keeping the major public transit agencies happy is key to Bombardier's success, much more so than building a dozen monorails. To put it in perspective, the TTC order is for over 200 vehicles, and the Metrolinx order over 150.

With the Kingston plant tied up with a number of orders, production of new monorails may not be possible until the early 2020s. While it is possible that they could start up a production line in Plattsburgh, NY for monorails, it seems doubtful that this would be economically feasible for such a small order, and we know Disney would probably be happy to wait a few years if it saved them some cash.
Click to expand...

Interesting are the number of vehicles actual trains or carriages? You hear both quoted. Either way 12 monorails would be around 72 cars so still much smaller than the TTC orders. Do Bombardier make monorails anywhere else?
 
F

Flalex72

Well-Known Member
Robbiem said:
Interesting are the number of vehicles actual trains or carriages? You hear both quoted. Either way 12 monorails would be around 72 cars so still much smaller than the TTC orders. Do Bombardier make monorails anywhere else?
Click to expand...

All of the vehicles mentioned are LRV style coupled sets, comprised of very short modules linked together in a walk through design. The Flexity Freedom for Metrolinx and GRT/ion is 5 modules long, 7 modules long for ETS. The Flexity Outlook for the TTC is 5 modules long. The production numbers are the number of cars, not the number of individual modules. It's not 100% analogous to the monorails since an LRT is formed of a number of different modules that can't be rearranged, whereas a monorail train is a set of identical cars that could be rearranged or swapped, bookended by cars with cabs.

Pictures and information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexity_Outlook_(Toronto_streetcar)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexity_Freedom

As for monorails, It's a pretty niche market. Bombardier has filled orders for Brazil and Saudi Arabia recently, their first since the Vegas order. Other than a test train manufactured in Kingston, these vehicles were produced in Brazil or other locations closer to their destination. There is a Chinese joint venture underway, but these vehicles are the larger Innovia 300, which uses a larger beamway.
 
Last edited:
Unplugged

Unplugged

Well-Known Member
From a purely hypothetical perspective, no fantasy mindset, I can't help but wonder the bigger picture. Considering how people must be moved from a commuter perspective has changed, based on the attendance at WDW (MK & EPCOT) over the years, is the monorail operationally worth the expense when compared to the losses incurred if it was removed? Is this driving Disney's slow reaction to all things monorail? Is this why this once magnificent system is little more than a band aided people mover?

For me, WDW would not be WDW without the monorail. I look for it, I expect it, it's an old staple and filled with great memories. But it's not embraced by Disney anymore. If it was to be relied on as a primary form of transportation, one would think they would have committed to upgrading the infrastructure, perhaps with a new line from MK toward I4 with dedicated parking facilities out there clearing the busy season roads? Or 1 modern continuous loop between all parks, the Springs, and a few other resort stops, running 8 to 12 trains all it's own, removing the short spur from MK to EPCOT? Or simplified the MK loop to a single loop for resorts & EPCOT TTC only so they could replace it with a wider beam for modern trains and move more people?

Alas, we see no enhancements. We only see our beloved monorail dragged into the future with automation to avoid further accidents, all while skinning the trains with ads. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. I'd love it to be restored to it's grandeur with new trains and used for another 20-30 years. I'd love to see them acknowledge it for it's marketing value in addition for guest value. But I really wonder, what is the real story behind the scenes and will we still have our monorail system in 10 years?
 
Movielover

Movielover

Well-Known Member
Unplugged said:
Alas, we see no enhancements. We only see our beloved monorail dragged into the future with automation to avoid further accidents, all while skinning the trains with ads.
Click to expand...

Technically the automation counts as enhancements whether you like it or not, also the wraps can also be considered "enhancements". Then there's the fact that constant maintenance is still applied to the trains and track as well as the fact that the whole fleet just got refurbished and painted which is most certainly a enhancement.

Unplugged said:
I'd love to see them acknowledge it for it's marketing value in addition for guest value.
Click to expand...

Main page of Epcot...
Epcotmon.jpg


and the Contermporary...
ContMon.jpg


And...
ContMon2.jpg


Saying that though I would love to see the fleet and track expanded. It truly is a microcosm of what makes Disney "special"!
 
L

Liberty6

Active Member
s8film40 said:
From what I remember Duty Managers were not so much a role or position but rather an assignment. The duty manager was sort of the go to person at any given point for transportation as a whole. Seemed to me more often than not they were a bus manger and had little to no knowledge of monorails. Occasionally sometimes the monorail GSM's would do it and I'm sure the opposite was true.
Click to expand...

The role has evolved a little bit. There is now a “Duty” team. A Senior Duty Manager with 3-4 Duty managers under them. They oversees all LOB (not like back in the day when they had a Merch Duty/F&B Duty etc.) day to day operations. When they aren’t the Duty manager they should be doing show, safety walks and resolving them. The Senior Duty Manager is part of the parks executive committee and the Duty manager position is an elevated GEM role where you have greater potential of being promoted out to a Proprietors. Proprietors are still trained to be Duty managers but very rarely do you ever see a GEM doing it anymore.
 
Unplugged

Unplugged

Well-Known Member
Movielover said:
Technically the automation counts as enhancements whether you like it or not, also the wraps can also be considered "enhancements". Then there's the fact that constant maintenance is still applied to the trains and track as well as the fact that the whole fleet just got refurbished and painted which is most certainly a enhancement.

Main page of Epcot...

and the Contermporary...

And...

Saying that though I would love to see the fleet and track expanded. It truly is a microcosm of what makes Disney "special"!
Click to expand...


I stand corrected Sir and bolded your comment that captures my real feelings. Guess I've grown so accustomed to it that when they struggle to maintain status quo, I only notice the degradation of it, which is sad for me as I do love the spirit of the monorail! These types of things wear out, they're a commuter system so it's expected I guess. Kind of like not observing the new signage in the NYC Subway.

This is not a slam, only my own observation as it applies to me: Some of us hold this business too a much higher bar that they set themselves, so seeing the gondola system go in while they have almost 30 year old trains that seem to be falling apart or failing every few weeks, it saddens me. WDW will never be the "go to place" because of the gondolas.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Unplugged said:
I stand corrected Sir and bolded your comment that captures my real feelings. Guess I've grown so accustomed to it that when they struggle to maintain status quo, I only notice the degradation of it, which is sad for me as I do love the spirit of the monorail! These types of things wear out, they're a commuter system so it's expected I guess. Kind of like not observing the new signage in the NYC Subway.

This is not a slam, only my own observation as it applies to me: Some of us hold this business too a much higher bar that they set themselves, so seeing the gondola system go in while they have almost 30 year old trains that seem to be falling apart or failing every few weeks, it saddens me. WDW will never be the "go to place" because of the gondolas.
Click to expand...
It was a very brief period of time when people went because of Monorails, if ever. They are a nice attraction, but, if they didn't exist the rest of the attractions would still be there and people would go to them, because riding the Monorail is just a very small part of the experience. It's hardly the big deal that most people think it is. I'm more impressed that they are 30 years old and still look and work as good as they do, but, Disney fans expect total perfection even if it is not necessary. I like the idea that I am still riding the trains that I rode 30 years ago. Talk about nostalgia.
 
s8film40

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
It was a very brief period of time when people went because of Monorails, if ever. They are a nice attraction, but, if they didn't exist the rest of the attractions would still be there and people would go to them, because riding the Monorail is just a very small part of the experience. It's hardly the big deal that most people think it is. I'm more impressed that they are 30 years old and still look and work as good as they do, but, Disney fans expect total perfection even if it is not necessary. I like the idea that I am still riding the trains that I rode 30 years ago. Talk about nostalgia.
Click to expand...
Everything at WDW is just a small part of the experience. There is absolutely nothing that is important enough that it's removal would keep the majority from visiting. The monorail is simply on par with everything else WDW has to offer. It's just the nature of the business theme parks and resorts are a collection of a variety of experiences.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom