Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

[esskay]

The door issue is super annoying, it's been amplified by the poor maintenance, it never used to need the pilot to announce cab numbers over a tannoy so that someone would come and slam them for them.

When they do eventually come to replacing the fleet, I kinda hope that they do keep the frames (Theres nothing wrong with those) and do the rebuild around them. There's nothing wrong with the overall design, in fact if we just essentially had new trains of the exact same design (minus the cant-brake-on-time-to-save-its-life automation system) I think people would be fine with that - its tried and tested.

 

[_caleb]

The door issue is super annoying, it's been amplified by the poor maintenance, it never used to need the pilot to announce cab numbers over a tannoy so that someone would come and slam them for them.

When they do eventually come to replacing the fleet, I kinda hope that they do keep the frames (Theres nothing wrong with those) and do the rebuild around them. There's nothing wrong with the overall design, in fact if we just essentially had new trains of the exact same design (minus the cant-brake-on-time-to-save-its-life automation system) I think people would be fine with that - its tried and tested.

Does it really work like that? Is it just a matter of new fiberglass(?) shells on the existing frames? Oh, and new doors. And AC systems. I didn't realize the monorails were so... modular.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Does it really work like that? Is it just a matter of new fiberglass(?) shells on the existing frames? Oh, and new doors. And AC systems. I didn't realize the monorails were so... modular.

The Mark Vs and Mark VIIs used the Mark III chassis. The Mark VII reuses most of the Mark V bodies.

 

[_caleb]

The Mark Vs and Mark VIIs used the Mark III chassis. The Mark VII reuses most of the Mark V bodies.

Thanks. I remember that DLs Mark IIIs became the Mark Vs, but I never thought about how that was done.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Full disclosure, I don't know the answer to your question, as I'm no insider. My best somewhat-educated guess, though, is that the automation system was primarily done to give an additional layer of "safety" following the Pink/Purple accident. Essentially, it's the monorail's version of the "positive train control" or PTC that has been discussed for American Railroads following some of the terrible accidents that have happened in recent years.

Stemmed directly from this.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Full disclosure, I don't know the answer to your question, as I'm no insider. My best somewhat-educated guess, though, is that the automation system was primarily done to give an additional layer of "safety" following the Pink/Purple accident. Essentially, it's the monorail's version of the "positive train control" or PTC that has been discussed for American Railroads following some of the terrible accidents that have happened in recent years.

You are absolutely right that if the goal was to eliminate the pilot's position the system has failed miserably. Same miserable failure if the goal was to increase efficiency, with station dwell times reportedly swelling, especially recently. (Which again, you're correct about.)

Which brings us back to the question of why spend this money to automate motion control (and only motion control, as you pointed out), if it wouldn't save payroll costs or increase efficiency? PTC/safety in the wake of the accident. This also gives them some isolation/protection that if, heaven forbid, another accident happened, that they did SOMETHING.

I hadn't considered the PTC aspect; it makes sense. But didn't the old MAPO block system basically act in the same way, making sure trains stayed a minimum distance apart from each other (anyone know if that system is still active?)? And for the Purple/Pink crash, wasn't one of the contributing factors that the spur reverse procedure required operators to forcibly override the MAPO system, basically turning off the safety system intended to keep trains from colliding? Given that procedure at the time, I'm not sure PTC would have prevented that kind of low-speed permissive block maneuver.

I wonder if Disney tried to do a 2 for 1 deal of sorts with the new software, using automation as way of getting PTC, with the added benefit of increased train efficiency, at least in theory. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be working out that way at all.

 

[esskay]

My understanding of the crash was that they regularly disabled the safety systems when doing things like reversing into stations. The automation system doesn't actually fix this at all, as that too can be disabled. The fix would've been stricter rules (e.g no reversing without two monorail trained cast members in the station and no other trains within 100 meters) and better training.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

I hadn't considered the PTC aspect; it makes sense. But didn't the old MAPO block system basically act in the same way, making sure trains stayed a minimum distance apart from each other (anyone know if that system is still active?)? And for the Purple/Pink crash, wasn't one of the contributing factors that the spur reverse procedure required operators to forcibly override the MAPO system, basically turning off the safety system intended to keep trains from colliding? Given that procedure at the time, I'm not sure PTC would have prevented that kind of low-speed permissive block maneuver.

I wonder if Disney tried to do a 2 for 1 deal of sorts with the new software, using automation as way of getting PTC, with the added benefit of increased train efficiency, at least in theory. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be working out that way at all.

Yes, my understanding matches yours as far as MAPO and the need to disable to "reverse" a train. In theory, the automation system is not completely disabled (unlike MAPO) as the PTC aspect also monitors the location of every single (powered/active) train at all times. MAPO only acted for each train individually, warning it if the block ahead was unavailable (occupied or open switch). My understanding was that during the accident, both trains were in MAPO override...Pink due to reversing, and Austin in Purple due to advancing toward the block with what he would have expected to be an open switch, but instead was Pink.

In theory, the automation system would not permit this to happen, as unlike MAPO, it would still be aware of the two trains approaching. Basically, it still has an overarching view of the entire system, whereas MAPO just knew the status of any given block.

 

[Jonathan Wang]

Refurb looks nice, unpopular opinion (maybe) is I still think we need to replace our current fleet and revamp the automation with something better. There just a point with you’re gonna have to cut yourself losses and go with something else.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Refurb looks nice, unpopular opinion (maybe) is I still think we need to replace our current fleet and revamp the automation with something better. There just a point with you’re gonna have to cut yourself losses and go with something else.

I don't know how much has changed, but when I worked there MAPO would need to be be override backwards or forwards going over a switch track that had been set up to put trains on or off (It would light up red, and you'd have to push the button manually to bypass it). That being said, MAPO was notoriously unreliable in terms of working. We used to do MAPO tests daily at the TTC, seeing how close trains would get before it being triggered (sometimes within less than a foot). Of course, it would lead to the inevitable radio broadcast of someone saying " I want my MAPO". (old commercial sole, for you younglings - lol)

 

[trainplane3]

Is it just one car or is the upholstery in Silver turning to crap already? It looks melted/poorly glued? No A/C either in this car.

Again, not crapping on it. Just pointing things out for info and curiosities sake.

Side note: friends learned you can open the little windows on the monorail. They laughed when I said "crack the window" and then actually did it.

 

[Jonathan Wang]

Is it just one car or is the upholstery in Silver turning to crap already? It looks melted/poorly glued? No A/C either in this car.

Again, not crapping on it. Just pointing things out for info and curiosities sake.

Side note: friends learned you can open the little windows on the monorail. They laughed when I said "crack the window" and then actually did it.

jesus.... i feel like they cheaped out on the refurb.... probably cheap materials/glue ... come on now disney. The only reason i could see them being THIS cheap is if they are really looking into getting some newer ones.

old disney:
execs: spare no expense has to last
workers; YAY!


new disney:
execs: lets use this cheapo brand
workers: uhh they wont hold up in this weather
execs: its fine we just need to hold us over for a few more years, these people don't care, they will keep paying us

/s

 

[tissandtully]

Is it just one car or is the upholstery in Silver turning to crap already? It looks melted/poorly glued? No A/C either in this car.

Again, not crapping on it. Just pointing things out for info and curiosities sake.

Side note: friends learned you can open the little windows on the monorail. They laughed when I said "crack the window" and then actually did it.

That must have been the Dali cab.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

Is it just one car or is the upholstery in Silver turning to crap already? It looks melted/poorly glued? No A/C either in this car.

Again, not crapping on it. Just pointing things out for info and curiosities sake.

Side note: friends learned you can open the little windows on the monorail. They laughed when I said "crack the window" and then actually did it.

Not defending this, it should be fixed, but I'll just say that I had a convertible a while back that had leather inserts on the door panels that were notorious for coming unglued during the hot summer months every year. (Hence no A/C running in this car becomes more significant.) It was no small feat to get them to actually adhere correctly and look right for this amateur. For the folks maintaining the monorail and getting paid to do this regularly, that really shouldn't happen. Maybe is was this particular CM's first attempt? Don't get me wrong, that still wouldn't excuse it, just explain it. Regardless, it should be fixed ASAP.

 

[trainplane3]

Not defending this, it should be fixed, but I'll just say that I had a convertible a while back that had leather inserts on the door panels that were notorious for coming unglued during the hot summer months every year. (Hence no A/C running in this car becomes more significant.) It was no small feat to get them to actually adhere correctly and look right for this amateur. For the folks maintaining the monorail and getting paid to do this regularly, that really shouldn't happen. Maybe is was this particular CM's first attempt? Don't get me wrong, that still wouldn't excuse it, just explain it. Regardless, it should be fixed ASAP.

That's exactly what I was thinking and why I was asking if anyone else saw this in other cars. I know it isn't easy making seats look good because my dad does upholstery as a side job (from grill and boat covers to full car and airplane interiors and dentist chairs) and I know he'd freak out over this and figure out how to fix it if he was in this car.

All seats in this particular car were affected. And there were also no "do not lean on the doors" signs either.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

That's exactly what I was thinking and why I was asking if anyone else saw this in other cars. I know it isn't easy making seats look good because my dad does upholstery as a side job (from grill and boat covers to full car and airplane interiors and dentist chairs) and I know he'd freak out over this and figure out how to fix it if he was in this car.

All seats in this particular car were affected. And there were also no "do not lean on the doors" signs either.

Sounds more like shoddy workmanship, then, which is disappointing.

 

[esskay]

Refurb looks nice, unpopular opinion (maybe) is I still think we need to replace our current fleet and revamp the automation with something better. There just a point with you’re gonna have to cut yourself losses and go with something else.

Not an unpopular opinion at all

We'd all love shiny new mono's but realistically its probably not going to happen yet else they wouldn't have given them the money to revamp a couple of trains.

I've got a bit of a theory. Could be complete nonsense so feel free to tell me where I'm wrong. I'm putting on my 'vp of finance' hat for this one.

Disney allocated a pretty large amount of cash to get the automation upgrade in place. They also no doubt had huge fines, and payouts from the tragedy that happened not long before that.

This meant the monorail was extremely over whatever annual budget they allocate to it, in the magnitude of tens or hundreds times over. That obviously looks super bad to the shareholders (yes, it suck that the company has to pander to these people, but thats a conversation for another day), so they reigned in the transportation budget across the resort for a few years.

This was evident on more than just monorails. The friendship boats have been in a really poor condition for a while now. Whereas before during a refurb they'd strip the paint off, sand them down and given them a nice clean coat, you can see where they've lathered layers and layers of paint over rust and grime, and some of them sounds really rough these days.

The busses probably took the least hit, they always need new busses. But the monorail. The monorail has massive upkeep costs, and is the easiest one to cut funding for.

Fast forward to 2019 and we've got a fleet that in the space of 5 years have massively gone down hill. People like to forget that the fleet is old yes - but it's been old for a long time and its not been an issue until the (presumed) funding cut. You expect them to age somewhat, but they were always well maintained and had an impeccable reliability record.

The good news is, with the greenlight for two refurbs it looks like funding might be finally coming back to the fleet. It'll take a while sure, but if they can make the fleet last another 5, maybe even 8 years before having to either replace or rebuild then they can at least get it back to the same 'reliable and clean but showing its age' feel of around 2005 - 2010.

 

[s8film40]

You know thinking of some of the recent evacuations and seeing how it seems somewhat apparent that Disney isn’t getting new trains or refurbishing the existing ones it seems like it would be a good idea and relatively not hugely expensive to install emergency walkways on the track. They’re pretty minimal and supported on the existing pylons. Even at the very least it would make a lot of sense to at the very least install them on and near the switches since disabled trains there can’t be towed.

 

[bcoachable]

You know thinking of some of the recent evacuations and seeing how it seems somewhat apparent that Disney isn’t getting new trains or refurbishing the existing ones it seems like it would be a good idea and relatively not hugely expensive to install emergency walkways on the track. They’re pretty minimal and supported on the existing pylons. Even at the very least it would make a lot of sense to at the very least install them on and near the switches since disabled trains there can’t be towed.

Would'nt these walkways need to meet current ADA standards to new construction? Is that beam wide enough for such a thing?

 

[GhostHost1000]

Disney needs to design some type of people mover / tram transportation at ground level (for where it can be done that way) like in large cities.