New Monorail Fleet for WDW

[Nmoody1]

Why would Disney connect DTD with the parks... So people can park there for free and take transport to the parks?

If they do connect the parks in any way then I think we'll be seeing paid parking at DTD (think we'll probably see it anyway.... Wait for a huge news conference/parks blog update heralding the arrival of something great at WDW - paid parking at a shopping mall!)

I think it's a dream that the parks all be connected. It would be a huge construction process that would take a very long time for one thing (we know how fast Disney works). I believe we may see new trains.... I can't see anybody taking the monorail to experience Star Wars land at the Studios or whatever film franchise they will slp into the Animal Kingdom - grand opening 2032.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The same corporate management that thought letting Johnny Depp make Tonto into a crazy character and take over top billing to commandeer "The Lone Ranger" away from a good story and right into the ditch was a good idea? The same one that beautifully managed "John Carter"?

I remember the last person that tried to tell everyone that he was "WINNING"...

Sometimes slow and steady (i.e., slow and reasoned capital investment) wins the race. The Animal Kingdom was huge expense, but now a lot of people I know think it is one of their favorites. The monorail itself was also a huge expense, and despite complaints sometimes here, is an iconic image that the company benefits from in intangible ways that do not show on income statements except overall attendance AND savings on bus diesel.

And as for maintenance and upkeep, which you mentioned in an earlier post, you cannot tell me that there is not a comparable maintenance cost (after construction) to buses and roads, especially with the cost of diesel and the shorter life and greater start-stop wear-and-tear of buses.

I do think that any monorail expansion would have to be well-thought-out, but I think that if so it could be helpful in reducing bus costs and road gridlock -- and at the same time be something that guests would like.

This is really the bottom line.

AKK

 

[tmstephe]

Well that's certainly not true. There are plenty of capex projects ongoing. We have FLE completing, Disney Spring starting, an expansion to Disney's Best-Kept Secret, Avatar, and the DHS project. Plus work at Epcot. There's actually a LOT going on at WDW right now. More than we've seen this millennium.

I've heard of the others... what is "Disney's Best-Kept Secret" and what is planned for EPCOT?

 

[randyrut]

I am pretty new to all of this. I have to say I find the majority of the people on here just chronic complainers. Why do you have to be so negative about everything? If you are that big of a fan of Disney, that you come on these discussion boards, why cant you just relax and not have to put everything down all the time?

They way I see this? The monorail system is a part of Disney World. The chances of it going away completely is crazy to me. And everyone saying that they will never update the cars? Are you kidding? They have to do it at some point. The people who work there are smart enough to keep the ones they have until they truly have no other option but to replace them. I am sure they have a depreciation schedule, and they are going to be replaced within a few years. So theres no reason to roll your eyes at every mention of things like this.

Will they go to the other parks? That one I would probably say no to, but who I am to know? That sounds like a lot of unnecessary money when the way things work now is efficient enough.

I am sure there are people out there who post things just to start a thread because they are bored. But I am sure there is some truth to a lot of them. I love Disney and have all the faith in the world in their decisions. Next Gen, etc...it will all benefit the parks. The only thing they need to make right is the whole FastPass+ system...

 

[Master Yoda]

Who said they will not stop at other resorts along the way?, OKW, BC, BW, etc. What about the water parks and DTD. Anything is possible.

I have done that in the past, spent time to post sites and then all I got back was unsupported comments from folks only interested in saying it wont happen and didn't bother to support their comments.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

AKK

I have no problem agreeing, I just need facts to do it.

Here is the thing. Monorail expansion or other forms of transportation are never off the table at Disney. The number of people they have to move around the vastness that is WDW is simply mind boggling and they are always looking at better ways to do it. If anyone could show them a way where they could expand the monorail, move more people more efficiently and even break even with the busses, they would start construction yesterday. Since the only monorail expansion we have seen in the last 30+ years has been a couple hundred feet of a maintenance spur, I think it is safe to assume that none of the proposals come close to breaking even, let alone saving money.

 

[montyz81]

I am pretty new to all of this. I have to say I find the majority of the people on here just chronic complainers. Why do you have to be so negative about everything? If you are that big of a fan of Disney, that you come on these discussion boards, why cant you just relax and not have to put everything down all the time?

They way I see this? The monorail system is a part of Disney World. The chances of it going away completely is crazy to me. And everyone saying that they will never update the cars? Are you kidding? They have to do it at some point. The people who work there are smart enough to keep the ones they have until they truly have no other option but to replace them. I am sure they have a depreciation schedule, and they are going to be replaced within a few years. So theres no reason to roll your eyes at every mention of things like this.

Will they go to the other parks? That one I would probably say no to, but who I am to know? That sounds like a lot of unnecessary money when the way things work now is efficient enough.

I am sure there are people out there who post things just to start a thread because they are bored. But I am sure there is some truth to a lot of them. I love Disney and have all the faith in the world in their decisions. Next Gen, etc...it will all benefit the parks. The only thing they need to make right is the whole FastPass+ system...

Some of the complaining that you hear about is because people remember it the way they used to do things at Disney World. All of future world on opening Day versus future world now. I think that's stuff people are complaining about.

 

[devoy1701]

I am pretty new to all of this. I have to say I find the majority of the people on here just chronic complainers. Why do you have to be so negative about everything? If you are that big of a fan of Disney, that you come on these discussion boards, why cant you just relax and not have to put everything down all the time?

They way I see this? The monorail system is a part of Disney World. The chances of it going away completely is crazy to me. And everyone saying that they will never update the cars? Are you kidding? They have to do it at some point. The people who work there are smart enough to keep the ones they have until they truly have no other option but to replace them. I am sure they have a depreciation schedule, and they are going to be replaced within a few years. So theres no reason to roll your eyes at every mention of things like this.

Will they go to the other parks? That one I would probably say no to, but who I am to know? That sounds like a lot of unnecessary money when the way things work now is efficient enough.

I am sure there are people out there who post things just to start a thread because they are bored. But I am sure there is some truth to a lot of them. I love Disney and have all the faith in the world in their decisions. Next Gen, etc...it will all benefit the parks. The only thing they need to make right is the whole FastPass+ system...

A couple things. I am sure that we are far past any depreciation schedule on the monorails. The current trains are 24 years old now, and have not kept pace with the replacement schedule we have seen of the domestic parks of retirement about every 20 years since the Mark IIIs at Disneyland. The mentality of "lets run it into the ground" has been one that has plagued WDW's management for the past 10 years now. You're right, they have to replace them at some point...but that point shouldn't be when they are worn out, look dated, and smell like mold. Saying that this is a "smart" decision is really giving TDO more credit than they deserve if you look at their track record. We've been due to begin replacing our fleet since Disneyland replaced theirs which was 2008, so you're definitely going to see the eye rolls when this topic comes up. But to say that the current way the transportation system operates is efficient needs to be taken with a few grains of salt considering that it can take upwards of 2-3 hours to vacate the Magic Kingdom and get where you're going after a day of average to above average attendance. Their answer has been adding more buses, which has been putting a strain on the road system and bus loops at the parks.

 

[randyrut]

A couple things. I am sure that we are far past any depreciation schedule on the monorails. The current trains are 24 years old now, and have not kept pace with the replacement schedule we have seen of the domestic parks of retirement about every 20 years since the Mark IIIs at Disneyland. The mentality of "lets run it into the ground" has been one that has plagued WDW's management for the past 10 years now. You're right, they have to replace them at some point...but that point shouldn't be when they are worn out, look dated, and smell like mold. Saying that this is a "smart" decision is really giving TDO more credit than they deserve if you look at their track record. We've been due to begin replacing our fleet since Disneyland replaced theirs which was 2008, so you're definitely going to see the eye rolls when this topic comes up. But to say that the current way the transportation system operates is efficient needs to be taken with a few grains of salt considering that it can take upwards of 2-3 hours to vacate the Magic Kingdom and get where you're going after a day of average to above average attendance. Their answer has been adding more buses, which has been putting a strain on the road system and bus loops at the parks.

I would really like to know your master thoughts on how to fix a billion people all exiting one location at one time and not to have problems....

Disney is the most impressively run park in the world. I wish my main worry was that my park was always so crowded that people complained about long lines. If everything was such a negative and so awful, why do people keep coming?

 

[PirateFrank]

I have no problem agreeing, I just need facts to do it.

Here is the thing. Monorail expansion or other forms of transportation are never off the table at Disney. The number of people they have to move around the vastness that is WDW is simply mind boggling and they are always looking at better ways to do it. If anyone could show them a way where they could expand the monorail, move more people more efficiently and even break even with the busses, they would start construction yesterday. Since the only monorail expansion we have seen in the last 30+ years has been a couple hundred feet of a maintenance spur, I think it is safe to assume that none of the proposals come close to breaking even, let alone saving money.

I'll say this. With the amount of beds they are adding (AAS, GFV, BLT, Pv(maybe?)), if they ever got more heads into said beds and operated at a higher occupied capacity, we would have a people moving problem in WDW that would push well beyond the capabilities of the bus network. Good transportation systems have scalable systems and major load systems. Heck look at Walt's original EpCot design. Mono's brought people into the hubs and wedway people movers brought them out on the spokes. Relying solely on busses to get people around is like having a 1000 spokes with no major hubs. Yes, it's scalable, but even scalable systems have relevant ranges. You can extend the scalable system's range (in this case the bus network) by adding in fixed systems that handle greater load. The monorail serves as this fixed system. You expand it, and you make the bus network that much more effective.

I don't think 'breaking even' has anything to do with it. The day they chose to expand the monorail system is when the bus system can't handle the load effectively anymore. The jury's out as to whether or not we're there yet...but ask any guest of the Pop Century leaving the MK after wishes and he/she will tell you that we're there and past it by several magnitudes.

 

[wdwgreek]

I would welcome any update to the monorail system, but as many people are saying I’ll wait to see it happen. BUT I do have to disagree with anyone who says that new monorails will be a bad investment or expanding the system to more resorts would be negative. Well thought out infrastructure is always a good investment, it reduces stress on the roads and dependence on gasoline running motor vehicles. Less traffic on roads will always be a good thing, and increasing the ease of transportation, the efficacy and speed will also improve guest experience. We are all Disney fans here, and we all realize the importance that was placed in where the parks are situated and the role transportation plays in that system. If it is done tastefully with intelligent design this should be a welcomed addition, not an issue of contention!

 

[devoy1701]

I would really like to know your master thoughts on how to fix a billion people all exiting one location at one time and not to have problems....

Disney is the most impressively run park in the world. I wish my main worry was that my park was always so crowded that people complained about long lines. If everything was such a negative and so awful, why do people keep coming?

See the post right below yours for some more insight. One if the biggest problems is that Disney World expanded so much in the 90s in terms of capacity, but they did little to make sure the infrastructure could handle it. Yes, having MK crowded is a good problem to have, but it doesn't mean that exiting that park isn't a nightmare that really should have been fixed 10 years ago. Small things could be done such as completing the walkway around Seven Seas Lagoon would allow people who would prefer just to hike it rather than wait in the abysmal crowd. This would let people get to GF, Poly, and the MK Parking area, taking some strain off the Monorail system (I guarantee you that resort guests and even local APers would be more than happy to take this trek on crowded nights!).

Another solution would be automating the monorails so that they have a set schedule and we know that the trains always leave at the same time, the doors close automatically, the gates close automatically, which would help move those lines at a constant rate.

 

[randyrut]

I guess I am on my own in these thoughts...but everytime we go to Disney

See the post right below yours for some more insight. One if the biggest problems is that Disney World expanded so much in the 90s in terms of capacity, but they did little to make sure the infrastructure could handle it. Yes, having MK crowded is a good problem to have, but it doesn't mean that exiting that park isn't a nightmare that really should have been fixed 10 years ago. Small things could be done such as completing the walkway around Seven Seas Lagoon would allow people who would prefer just to hike it rather than wait in the abysmal crowd. This would let people get to GF, Poly, and the MK Parking area, taking some strain off the Monorail system (I guarantee you that resort guests and even local APers would be more than happy to take this trek on crowded nights!).

Another solution would be automating the monorails so that they have a set schedule and we know that the trains always leave at the same time, the doors close automatically, the gates close automatically, which would help move those lines at a constant rate.

I am guess I am alone in my thoughts here....but everytime we go to Disney, myself and my family are in constant amazement that the parks run the way they do. I would think there would so many more breakdowns, problems, disasters.... The parks are open every single day of the year, and the workload on the rides, the transportation, the park itself is insane. I have no problem waiting in lines or to be stuck in the park for a while at night. Would it be great to just run out of there and be in bed in 10 minutes? Sure. Can I cope with having to stand around for 45 minutes, especially when everything is always working? No doubt!

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I have no problem agreeing, I just need facts to do it.

Here is the thing. Monorail expansion or other forms of transportation are never off the table at Disney. The number of people they have to move around the vastness that is WDW is simply mind boggling and they are always looking at better ways to do it. If anyone could show them a way where they could expand the monorail, move more people more efficiently and even break even with the busses, they would start construction yesterday. Since the only monorail expansion we have seen in the last 30+ years has been a couple hundred feet of a maintenance spur, I think it is safe to assume that none of the proposals come close to breaking even, let alone saving money.

Yoga, we do agree for the most part, I NEVER said this is going to happen. All I am saying is techno and changing conditions may make it workable in the not to distant future. The buses are getting more expensive to move people every year.

As I said before, I think the next big people mover system will be a *pod/light rail system*.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Why would Disney connect DTD with the parks... So people can park there for free and take transport to the parks?

If they do connect the parks in any way then I think we'll be seeing paid parking at DTD (think we'll probably see it anyway.... Wait for a huge news conference/parks blog update heralding the arrival of something great at WDW - paid parking at a shopping mall!)

I think it's a dream that the parks all be connected. It would be a huge construction process that would take a very long time for one thing (we know how fast Disney works). I believe we may see new trains.... I can't see anybody taking the monorail to experience Star Wars land at the Studios or whatever film franchise they will slp into the Animal Kingdom - grand opening 2032.

I think you answered your own question in the first 2 paragraphs.



If they did it, your looking at 3 to 5 years to build after design. ( Unlike some the mine train is not a example of normal Disney construction time. Most people like to forget that Disney after announcing the NFL, they discovered their mistake in it was all for girls and princesses and the guests told them so. They started from scratch and totally re designed NFL and started building a new high techno ride.........that takes time)


We agree on the new trains , they will be coming.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Some of the complaining that you hear about is because people remember it the way they used to do things at Disney World. All of future world on opening Day versus future world now. I think that's stuff people are complaining about.

Agreed, but some just like to complain in general!

AKK

 

[rodmansju]

I would be in favor of having more areas linked via the monorail. I think in my few trips to Disney, we've probably only take the bus once or twice, ususally because we'd prefer to drive (easier with strollers). but any time we can take the monorail, we usually do. the kids love it, they see it as another ride.
tho, when we were there in 2011, since it was our first time at BLT, we discovered the walking path between MK and BLT and made use of it many times--in part because there were a few times that the monorail had broken down/stopped.

but if you told us we could get to HS, AK and even possibly the water parks with the monorail? sounds good to me. love being on vacation and not really driving except the trip there and the trip home.

but i've been reading about "monorail expansion" since my first trip to disney in 2003. and i am sure it's been around a lot longer than that....

 

[Magenta Panther]

OK you had me going there until the 24 and talk of adding the other parks.

With the monorails - believe it when you see it.

Too bad. I love the Monorail. I'm not so crazy about the shuttle buses. It would be so sweet to be able to ride a Monorail to any park you choose. Ah, dreams...

 

[asianway]

I am sure there are people out there who post things just to start a thread because they are bored. But I am sure there is some truth to a lot of them. I love Disney and have all the faith in the world in their decisions. Next Gen, etc...it will all benefit the parks. The only thing they need to make right is the whole FastPass+ system...

So basically you are content with stale offerings and horrendous park management, so long as it doesnt interrupt your ability to game the FP system? Got it.

 

[randyrut]

So basically you are content with stale offerings and horrendous park management, so long as it doesnt interrupt your ability to game the FP system? Got it.

What??? Do me a favor and elaborate so that I could agree or disagree with you. Your comment is like saying Its a Small World is the worst ride ever because it isnt updated with computer graphics and insane technological advances.

 

[asianway]

What??? Do me a favor and elaborate so that I could agree or disagree with you. Your comment is like saying Its a Small World is the worst ride ever because it isnt updated with computer graphics and insane technological advances.

I dont elaborate for forum trolls. Deal with it.