New Jim Hill article

[InfernalPenguin]

Well... bravo for one of them to finally say something about it.


It all goes back to the modern day martyr of geek religions, George Lucas. I've said it a million times but there will be no greater example of high expectations and endless grievances than the prequels.

If we were to stare at the space-time continuum, with the aid of one of Doc Brown's devices, I'm sure we'd see that even if Jar Jar Binks had been made of Gold and Win, wielded a 5 bladed lightsaber and brandished a voice that could tame a Krayt Dragon (whoa.... my nerd-speak meter just spiked) there would still be endless complaints about them.

I think the quote is "The fans already made the movie in their head, and the movie I made wasn't that movie", or something like that. At least I think it captures what he said.


Same thing. We make the rides in our head. And when it doesn't feature an superbly astounding scene that we thought should be included, or some wonderful feature, or some nostalgic character *cough* dreamfinder *cough* we start screamin' bloody murder.

Meanwhile millions of people visit Disney World/Land and are thrilled with their vacation.


Here's the thing though, and I've been meaning to make a thread about this, the unfair part about it all, and this is just what I've been noticing with my untrained eye, is that all this park "elitism" and diehardyness finally devolves into just a bunch of negativity and a general belittling of other people in general.

Because of course we're not just insulting the Imagineers who worked so hard on it ("Pfft, it would've been PERFECT! If they had just made those triangles orange squares and instead of the video screens had a holographic projection of the future") but we're also putting down anybody who likes that attraction too ("People who like that ride just want entertainment! They're not using their heads at all! Not like us, no, we love the Mad TeaCups for their deep cultural value!").

And when we point out obvious things, things that are most probably being worked on or about to be worked on, same thing happens. "How HARD could it POSSIBLY be?!?!!" is the phrase I generally read.

I don't know how hard it could be to move this set or fix this animatronic or make this section or that more appealing, but judging by the amount of money these people put into pleasing us, I DOUBT they're just ignoring it. Which means it MUST have some degree of difficulty.

I see so many contradictions on the forum. The CM's get a break but the guests don't. Some characters deserve to be everywhere, others deserve to be erased from history (Where is my Brave Little Toaster merchandise... hmm?) And Ironically the one thing that isn't a contradiction is that the Imagineers don't get a chance. Ever.

Always doing something wrong. Overlay this. Replace that. Shutdown this. Refurb (or don't) that.


I'm an aspiring filmmaker. This is a easy venture... mainly because any half-wit with a camera can shoot a paper airplane flying over a puddle, call it an art piece and win the Jury Selection at Cannes. It's easy. And there is bit...I mean, complaining abound. From both sides.

I cite Uwe Boll... who still, for some unknown reason, manages to scrape up enough money to make movies and against all the negative criticism he recieves manages to think his movies have some sort of audience. God bless him, really. If Andy Kaufman isn't dead, he does a mean German Accent.

My point is it's an entertainment vein that is open to complaints, because, well, if everyone accepted what they were fed onscreen then my mother could be Spielberg and I'd be in the money.


But themeparks? Surely that's the most generous of entertainment venues.

These people have made a business of spending INSANE amounts of money on 3-5 minute attraction that take YEARS to plan and build.

If you own a food business and you don't manage to make a profit, there's ways of getting out. But I don't even want to BEGIN to think about what sort of fallout there is if your multi-million dollar theme park attraction isn't as popular as you'd hoped. It's a huge risk.

They are smart. They look into these sort of possibilities, I'm sure. Their goal is to see you smiling at the end of the day, having done something you're not accustomed to in ordinary life (unless you work at INGEN and escaping from large predatory dinosaurs in an all terrain vehicle is you're 9 to 5)

I'm sure that hearing us nitpick, complain and whine about why there are still curtains up on SSE must get annoying at some point.

Not to mention a bit pretentious. And arrogant.

Our mothers used this against us when we were kids, and it seems to be sort of relevant now but... there's kids starving in africa and we're freaking out because they might put Abu into IASW?


I'm sure what this Imagineer meant wasn't "SHUT UP ALREADY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" but more like "Think before you speak". There's criticism and then there's criticism.


Allright, that was my 2 A.M. rant for today. If it sounded nuts towards the end please excuse me, but sometimes my subconcious invades my reality at this time of night and it's hard for me to strain the chalazae out (thank you Alton Brown... see what I mean? Nuts). I'm sure you got the general tone of what I wanted to say. No harm intended, love you guys.

Well, maybe not love. I don't know you people too well. Love in that sort of generalized John Lennon default kinda way, not that I'm undervalua..... y'know what? I'm just gonna go to sleep.

 

[TOCPE82]

"When it comes to Walt Disney World, we're not out to please the annual passholders. Our goal here is service the tens of millions of other guests for whom a Disney World vacation is a once-in-a-lifetime experience."


While most of what WDI comes out with is - on the whole - excellent work, the thing that separates Disney attractions from other theme parks is attention to detail That said, there is a fair amount of nitpicking and everything I've read about TSM on the 'net has been great.


However, it is the above statement that troubles me. Disney needs to realize where their bread is buttered. Annual Passholders and DVC members come to Disney far more often and spend far more money (over time) than the once-in-a-lifetime guest and should be treated accordingly . When the economy slows down who do you think will continue to come down and hand their money over to the mouse? It certainly won't be the $5000 trip of a lifetime guests.... it'll be the loyal APs and DVC members. The same thing happened after 9/11 when they couldn't give rooms away. The APs and DVC members still came to the parks and still spent money.


This is on top of the fact that APs and DVCers are about the best promotion and recruiting campaign out there. When anyone I know wants to plan a trip, my family is who they turn to for advice. Why do they turn to us when they think of Disney? Probably because we don't shut up about how great the place is and how much fun we have!


The Disney fan community as a whole are surely a bunch of malcontents to a degree, but when did having high expectations become a huge character flaw? WDI can get it right, look at the Haunted Mansion refurb. I know of not a single person who doesn't feel the ride was extremely "plussed". Your casual guest is going to love everything and give attractions high marks because they don't know any better and aren't in a position to notice a decline in quality (if one is present, that is.)

 

[JennyTablina]

Every fandom ever has it's complainers and all. Imagineering should just accept everything they ever do will be under scrutiny from the fans

That said I was hearing good things about Toy Story Mania so I dont think thats an issue. It might be more down to that Yeti that doesnt seem to quite work half the time and the fact SSE was kinda incomplete for a while.

Still...maybe it isnt the annual passholder. But EVERYONE should be considered by the Imagineers. They wont please them all but your aiming to make everyone happy, not just the casual visitor who will still enjoy the less amazing rides regardless

 

[Fun2BFree]

If a disgruntled imagineer wishes to call foul play on these forums, I couldn't care less. Most of the threads on here are positive, and we don't instil irrational hatred of Disney onto those asking for help with trip planning. I'll criticise what I don't like, and praise what I like, and if an imagineer wishes to moan, I won't listen.

 

[Shaman]

I have a hard time believing an Imagineer wrote an e-mail like that.

Disney is known for 'frowning on' CMs commenting outside the company and no-one, 'friend' of not of JH, would risk writing him such an e-mail. The writing style of the purported e-mail is quite similar to JH's.

:shrug:

I was thinking the same. Unless the dude works as a janitor IN IMAGINEERING, and his name is Jim Hill. But hey, free advertisement for 'magic'. :lookaroun

The supposed employee "in imagineering" could also be a disgruntled ex-employee. Who knows?

But hey, considering how obnoxious some of the so-called Disney Fans are...I don't blame the imagineers (or anyone for that matter) for feeling that way. I personally don't understand why overzealous fans think that Disney caters only (if at all) to them? How many so-called cherished attractions sit in the grave yard today?

I'm just happy DHS got another attraction. That park needs loads of TLC.

Just my opinion. :shrug:

BS flag anyone? :lookaroun

 

[dxwwf3]

Most of the threads on here are positive

Contrary to what some might think, I personally think you're right on the money.

Nothing was mentioned about Everest complains in the message. I wonder why :lol:. I've read mostly positive things about TSMM and I know this thing will be a huge hit among the majority of guests and fans. I expect it to be a high C/low D ticket type of attraction and I hope that many others are going into it with that type of expectation. A lot of money went into the attraction, but that's due to the nature of the experience. I'm glad they spent E-ticket level money on a non E-ticket attraction.

But back on the point, if someone honestly believes that people have NO RIGHT to complain about things like Stitch's Great Escape, Spaceship Earth's ending, or the characterization of IASW, I think they are dead wrong. IASW might turn out ok (although the Hong Kong video I saw did leave a bad taste in my mouth) and the SSE ending is at least getting small things added, but there should be criticism about all of those things mentioned.

If people think fans are hard on Disney attractions, they should check out some movie message boards :ROFLOL:

 

[One Lil Spark]

I was thinking the same. Unless the dude works as a janitor IN IMAGINEERING, and his name is Jim Hill. But hey, free advertisement for 'magic'. :lookaroun

The supposed employee "in imagineering" could also be a disgruntled ex-employee. Who knows?

But hey, considering how obnoxious some of the so-called Disney Fans are...I don't blame the imagineers (or anyone for that matter) for feeling that way. I personally don't understand why overzealous fans think that Disney caters only (if at all) to them? How many so-called cherished attractions sit in the grave yard today?

I'm just happy DHS got another attraction. That park needs loads of TLC.

Just my opinion. :shrug:

BS flag anyone? :lookaroun

You rang?

And you're right... It IS free advertisement. Any kind of publicity is good publicity.

 

[earldw28]

I think you guys might be right on this BS thing. I mean Imagineers are people too so it is possible that they could let their feelings get the best of them. But, having said that I am pretty sure I wouldn't risk a job as an Imagineer by getting upset and whining about some opinions posted on a WDW forum. There are always going to be people who don't like any one ride for some reason or another. This rant by this "Imagineer" seems a little childish. I would expect a more intelligent response to criticism.

 

[Skyway]

I gotta say....I side with the Imagineer on this one. Yes, there's alot of unwarranted criticism. I also agree they should avoid reading online forums.

Face it. If there had been an Internet in 1982, someone would have complained about Spaceship Earth's squeaky ride vehicles, the lack of music, dull narration, and the lame ending. They would have ignored the amazing architecture, the animatronics, and the unique story. And those same 1982 Fanboys would have taken full credit for "forcing Imagineers" into adding Cronkite's narration, "Tomorrow's Child", and improving the descent.


You know that an Internet review of the Haunted Mansion's soft openings would have slammed the crappy "Hatbox Ghost" effect and then faulted Imagineers for being too cheap to fix it.

Of course, Imagineers made all those improvements without the prompting of an online fan base. And they will continue to do so.

And that's why that Imagineer is right that they should ignore online postings.

Soft openings are called "test and adjust" for a reason-- they need to work out the kinks. For better or worse, the immediacy of the internet can turn a "preview" into a "final review" (I''m frustrated to see how many websites still have online videos of the SSE rehab soft openings, but not the much-improved final product)

Some will fault Disney for "rushing to open" incomplete attractions. And maybe in this Internet age they need to consider that (and take the online fire for taking too long to build new attractions). But without audience previews, it would be impossible for them to experiment with audio levels, wear-and-tear issues-- or in the case of live shows like MILF-- proper timing.

And Imagineers don't have to be constantly reminded of past stumbles that may or may not have been their doing. For goodness sake... in this thread someone already brought up "Tiki Room Under New Management"-- a decade-old refurb of an outdated C-Ticket attraction that was created under an entirely diffrent management team. I join them in saying "Get Over It!" Do you really think Iger, Lassiter, and Co. would really replicate that again? They've gotten a heck of a lot more right than wrong. Even Walt has his bombs (ohhhhh, I can't believe I just spoke such heracy!)

 

[dizpins14]

All I have to say is; what would Walt do if he read that e-mail?? :lookaroun


No seriously I think he would be kinda ed.....

 

[bfbulldog]

The Imagineers should be happy to hear criticism, after all most of it is done in a constructive way, and in the end it's usually only a few peoples opinions, it is obvious though that by how angry they get that these criticisms do strike a nerve.

I'm just glad there are large groups of people who will criticize an attraction when appropriate, even if these criticisms don't directly affect an attraction, it's obvious that they are just under the surface of the Imagineers minds. And in the end , that's a good thing

 

[darrylpan]

I dont think the imagineers should get the criticism. I think the accountants who have final say on a project and cut the funding out of these attractions is the real reason some of them appear to have less imagination in them than in past years.

 

[bgraham34]

The Imagineers should be happy to hear criticism, after all most of it is done in a constructive way, and in the end it's usually only a few peoples opinions, it is obvious though that by how angry they get that these criticisms do strike a nerve.

I'm just glad there are large groups of people who will criticize an attraction when appropriate, even if these criticisms don't directly affect an attraction, it's obvious that they are just under the surface of the Imagineers minds. And in the end , that's a good thing

I completely agree. Its the same thing as politics. If you are not happy you must stress your dissatifaction.

 

[Minnesota]

I would love to be a DVC memeber or an AP holder but right now I am not. I am pretty much joe public. Family of 4, 1 boy and 1 girl, heck we even have a dog and a cat. Between school, hockey, and money we are only able to go everyother year. Until I had to become a "grown up" I was able to go everyyear and I don't remember ever being dissappointed in any attraction. Ok you can bash. But I really do like the Tiki room, Stitch, Monster Inc, and all the rest. I am sure if they decide to add characters to IASW it will be done very well. I also know that if and when they decide to close my beloved Country Bears although I will be very sad for Big Al I will love the next one as well. If we didn't why do we keep going back?

 

[bears163]

I do agree with her in some ways. Yes she does need to take the complaining on boards like ours lightly. You are never going to please everyone at the same time. Someone will always complain no matter what. But on the other hand we do have Stich replacing Alien Encounter. That is one attraction I think they went totally wrong on.

 

[jt04]

I do agree with her in some ways. Yes she does need to take the complaining on boards like ours lightly. You are never going to please everyone at the same time. Someone will always complain no matter what. But on the other hand we do have Stich replacing Alien Encounter. That is one attraction I think they went totally wrong on.

Totally.

I read the Jim Hill article again and it just does not ring genuine. I think he found some fringe worker and is quoting them or he is making the whole thing up. He has no credibility with me any more (not that he had much).

 

[wickedfan07]

This is a 50/50 argument. The Imagineer is correct-a lot of people online complain way to much. However, the Guests (foamers or not) are correct to hold Disney to a high standard. If an acoustics issue had an effect on any Guest's experience, it is something worth being looked at a second time by WDI. I do not work for Disney or know everything there is to know about Walt himself. However, I know he stood for quality and pushed for everything to be as close to perfect as possible. Is this Imagineer trying to justify the fact that he doesn't want to push as hard as Walt would want him to? The point of this 3D attraction is to be completely immersed in your game. If bleeding noise from other parts of the ride is putting a damper on the total effect of the ride, that's something worth addressing.

Past complaining with Spaceship Earth was out of hand and became very petty. However, much of the TSM buzz has been positive, and I think the noise complaint is a valid criticism. It enever hurts to review the details a second time. Disney has always gone the extra mile and it hass always paid off. The nonstop efforts of Imagineering have made the Disney Parks what rhey are, and I greatly appreciate and admire their never-ending efforts.

 

[MousDad]

I have a hard time believing an Imagineer wrote an e-mail like that.

I don't. If Sklar and Smith can do it (even politely), that would be a green light for me to strike back too if I'm an imagineer.

 

[Darth Angelo]

"$70 million for this attraction and you complain if we get one thing wrong." I do not know about you, but I will send back a $25 steak at Outback if it is wrong. If the Disney Company is spending $70 million on anything, then there should be NO problems. The fact that this guy admitted that there was a problem is the strangest part. Why not say that they are working on little tweaks and just wanted to get something open ASAP. That there will always be things we need to correct in the future.

We all (the Regulars and the once every five year families) hold Disney to a much higher standard than other theme parks. Is that bad?

I do not know about you but I try and look at both the negative and the positives in everything then form my own opinion. So why is being negative so bad? We are Disney fans and expect perfection. If we wanted to ride rides that gave us only 80% we would go to Universal Studios.

It is a little funny that they probably spent a lot of time and money matching the bricks to the color of the Pixar's studios bricks. But how many of us have actually seen the Pixar Studios building, let alone remembered what color the bricks are. It is a nice touch, but isn't that a touch that only us fanboys/AP/WDVC would get?

 

[WDWFREAK53]

What did the Imagineer say that was wrong?

Taking criticism is one thing...but when you constantly hear negative after negative...there comes a point where you don't even want to try...because you know, if you do your best...you're still going to get nothing but negatives.

I actually applaud the Imagineer for speaking his mind on the subject.

Sure, he singled out this forum...but look around the forums! Nothing but complaints and complaints and complaints! If there is a compliment, 9 times out of 10 it's followed up with a negative!

Bravo to that Imagineer.

(Oh, and BTW, I haven't personally been on the new version of SSE...but a buddy of mine, who goes to WDW more than I do, just came back and RAVED about it...and specifically the ending.)