News New Haunted Mansion Grounds Expansion, Retail Shop Coming to Disneyland Resort in 2024

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
The difference there is WOC is where the water that's already there is being recycled, it's not using any additional water. Compare that to where water is soaking into the ground, not recyclable or reusable because it's in the dirt. Filling stores with plastic toys and paper straws doesn't have to do with water conservation in a drought-ridden state so that example is pointless. Also, reusable straws are cheap, easy to carry, and allowed in the parks, so you're not forced to drink from soggy paper straws. That's your choice not to do the quick, easy, and cheap solution.
There’s also a huge business difference, banning plastic straws is an easy environmental choice because they don’t generate revenue, banning plastic balloons that make $20 per balloon… not gonna happen.

WOC directly generates revenue, comparing its water loss to grass is apples to oranges.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
And obviously they have to make choices in how to respond to environmental situations. Such situations will almost necessarily be imperfect and will result in compromises.

Do you think most guests would rather have real grass they can't even walk on, sit on, relax on, or utilize in any way, or World of Color?

The point is you made it about the environment. To Disney, it’s not about the environment. It’s about the $
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
The point is you made it about the environment. To Disney, it’s not about the environment. It’s about the $
I think it’s a combination of both, when I wanted to reduce my water usage at home (for drought and financial reasons) I tore out all the grass in the front yard and replaced it with desert landscaping, I replaced a lot of my backyard grass with desert landscaping also but kept a 10x15 foot section of grass for my dog, and because it looks nice.

All grass isn’t equal, some is more practical and/or more valuable because of how it’s used, it makes sense to factor that in when deciding what to keep and what to eliminate.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
If it was just about money, they'd be doing this everywhere, not just the place with water constraints.
There’s also a reason artificial turf has not been widely adopted, the cost savings are over time and not up front. When you already have a full landscape maintenance crew that will still have to do some maintenance work, the cost savings aren’t that big.

There’s also nothing new about faking materials in themed entertainment, even landscape elements.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
They've done it all over the Park 2 years ago, including your beloved Storybook Land, don't you remember the long conversations we had about this -


Also unless you missed what is being said, no one is claiming it wasn't done for economical reasons too. Just that the primary driver behind it was for environmental reasons. That is why I'm saying its not mutually exclusive, it can be for both environmental and economical reasons.

Of course I remember that. I’m the Anti Astroturf Ambassador. I wasn’t listing all the places that have astroturf. Even though I’d prefer real grass there Storybookland astroturf works much better than the Mickey Floral or HM. Not only does it appear to be better quality but it’s a little more off in the distance and not such a focal point like the Mickey Floral. It’s also not as close up like the HM lawn. A lot has to do with lighting too. For example it was overcast my last time at the park and that helps too as you don’t have that artificial sheen that turf can give off in the sun.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
There’s also a reason artificial turf has not been widely adopted, the cost savings are over time and not up front. When you already have a full landscape maintenance crew that will still have to do some maintenance work, the cost savings aren’t that big.

There’s also nothing new about faking materials in themed entertainment, even landscape elements.

It is wrong when it looks cheap and takes you out of the story. Shiny miniature golf course astroturf doesn’t really make me feel like I’m in the front yard of a Mansion in the 1800’s.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
If I noticed the grass is obviously fake then you failed. TBA is a pile of junk but every time I walk by it I don’t think to myself that most of that greenery is artificial. In the case of the Haunted Mansion lawn, they failed.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Of course I remember that. I’m the Anti Astroturf Ambassador. I wasn’t listing all the places that have astroturf. Even though I’d prefer real grass there Storybookland astroturf works much better than the Mickey Floral or HM. Not only does it appear to be better quality but it’s a little more off in the distance and not such a focal point like the Mickey Floral. It’s also not as close up like the HM lawn. A lot has to do with lighting too. For example it was overcast my last time at the park and that helps too as you don’t have that artificial sheen that turf can give off in the sun.
I honestly think its being over-exaggerated how much of an impact this has on guests. Yes its going to be impactful to someone such as yourself who is super critical of this stuff. But to regular lay guests that don't have a critical eye, as I said before I'm fairly sure that most don't notice it, or at the very least ignore it as they are immersed in the overall environment of the queue.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I honestly think its being over-exaggerated how much of an impact this has on guests. Yes its going to be impactful to someone such as yourself who is super critical of this stuff. But to regular lay guests that don't have a critical eye, as I said before I'm fairly sure that most don't notice it, or at the very least ignore it as they are immersed in the overall environment of the queue.

I never said it has a High impact on most guests. That’s besides the point. They didn’t used to cater to the lowest common denominator. They went above and beyond.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I never said it has a High impact on most guests. That’s besides the point. They didn’t used to cater to the lowest common denominator. They went above and beyond.
I wouldn't call this catering to the lowest common denominator. If HM is 10/10, and this downgrades its slightly then its still a 9.9/10. However I still personally don't consider this a downgrade, but maybe just like others I'm used to seeing turf since its pretty much used in a lot of California. So yeah I don't see it as an impact at all to guests.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Sooooo …. How about that HM queue project? Or is this now HGTV?
😂
New queue is still being built, walls that form the new queue appear to be mostly finished, they are now adding the theming.

No opening date still, but with recent progress I predict it open before the end of the year if not around November 15th.

Not much more to say.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
There’s also a reason artificial turf has not been widely adopted, the cost savings are over time and not up front.
It’s a massive expense up front also, the last time I replaced my dying grass I priced out replacing it with fake grass and it was going to be nearly $1000, and that was just for materials with me doing the manual labor myself, that compared to about $100 to resod it.

Factor in an extra $10 a month in water and the break even point for me was going to be about 8 years. With landscaper expenses that may come down to 5-6 years for Disney but that’s still a long time to break even, especially since fake grass doesn’t last forever and will probably need to be replaced about the time you break even.

It’s a large water savings, a very small financial savings.
 

Old Mouseketeer

Well-Known Member
The point is you made it about the environment. To Disney, it’s not about the environment. It’s about the $
It's also about the PR and matching industry best practices as they progress. Disney has been actively promoting conservation efforts for over 20 years. They have been replacing landscaping with native, drought-tolerant plants all around the resort, wherever theming will allow. There are a host of efforts underway for both guests and backstage. I can be as cynical as anyone about Di$ney's motivations. But they do look at larger trends, as well.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
If it was just about money, they'd be doing this everywhere, not just the place with water constraints.

What "water constraints"? There are none in California today. At the end of a long summer, state reservoirs are at 113% of average currently, before the first raindrops of fall arrive next month....

Have A Drink!.jpg

There’s also a reason artificial turf has not been widely adopted, the cost savings are over time and not up front.

That, and that it turns out artificial turf causes cancer and other bad stuff to living things.

Who would have thought that blanketing the ground with a carpet of plastic petro-chemical compounds could impact the soil beneath that carpet of artificial green? Certainly not Monsanto! 🤣

 

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