News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[jt04]

Is this not Bob Iger's account? I thought it was...

I was here wayyyyyy before Iger. I think Iger posts as Epcot Explorer or something.

 

[Joe]

I was here wayyyyyy before Iger. I think Iger posts as Epcot Explorer or something.

I thought Iger posts as @Bob.

 

[The real rescueranger]

I thought Iger posts as @Bob.

I'm not sure about Iger, but I am pretty sure his mother posts here as 21stamps.

 

[msteel]

I'm not sure about Iger, but I am pretty sure his mother posts here as 21stamps.

No, it can't be her because her kids go to the parks.

(There's my contribution to thread drift for today)

 

[TimeTrip]

What city or what is the name of the system?

I spent a bit of time doing some googling, and I think it might be a Sky Cube system. If its the system I think it could be, these are some details after coming out of google translate

The plan is to purchase 20 cars traveling in the special rails on concrete pillars which will consist of 5 meters in height and diameter would be about 90 cm. The cost of building one kilometer is estimated at $ 20 million, and it is estimated that at first will consist of approximately 3-5 km of special rails.
Cars speeding reaches to 40-50 mph, and it is estimated that during the 10 minutes it will be possible to drink five kilometers, including loading or unloading the various destinations

 

[Lift Blog]

I spent some time today writing a big update on the system in La Paz, Bolivia in part because it is the closest the world has to what is rumored to be built at Walt Disney World. My takeaway: 3-5 stations and 1-2 haul ropes per line seems to be the sweet spot with today's gondola technology.

 

[Disone]

I spent some time today writing a big update on the system in La Paz, Bolivia in part because it is the closest the world has to what is rumored to be built at Walt Disney World. My takeaway: 3-5 stations and 1-2 haul ropes per line seems to be the sweet spot with today's gondola technology.

Great read. Thank you sir, much more informative. Another theme park site, screamed about how long travel time would take. this was based on the authors experience with the sky ride at Sea world San Diego, which apparently goes 6 mph. I was like "Come on man", (face palm). Turns out the average speed of a modern CPT system is AT LEASE twice that. But question for you in thunderstorm prone central florida. Will this system have to shut down when lighting is in the area? The monorails do not, but how lighting proof is Gondola? Also, would a tri cable not make more sense. They are typically use in areas with more lateral force winds, and with central Florida's near daily thunderstorm for three to four months of summer, I would think a little more wind resistance would be a good investment.

 

[Lift Blog]

Great read. Thank you sir, much more informative. Another theme park site, screamed about how long travel time would take. this was based on the authors experience with the sky ride at Sea world San Diego, which apparently goes 6 mph. I was like "Come on man", (face palm). Turns out the average speed of a modern CPT system is AT LEASE twice that. But question for you in thunderstorm prone central florida. Will this system have to shut down when lighting is in the area? The monorails do not, but how lighting proof is Gondola? Also, would a tri cable not make more sense. They are typically use in areas with more lateral force winds, and with central Florida's near daily thunderstorm for three to four months of summer, I would think a little more wind resistance would be a good investment.

Thanks for the compliment. The ride time for La Paz's new, longest line is 20.8 minutes for 3 miles and future lines will be 20 percent faster. I gave my thoughts on the lightning issue a few pages back: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/possible-new-gondola-transportation.924477/page-73#post-7586196

I think the 3S issue comes down mostly to cost and to a lesser extent, space. There's a reason no one has ever bought a 3S with more than two sections. They are incredibly expensive. Whistler Blackcomb's was $51 million for a single section (albeit an impressive one.) Tri-cable stations occupy significantly more land than monocable stations, especially with the need to turn sharp corners.

 

[Creathir]

Thanks for the compliment. The ride time for La Paz's new, longest line is 20.8 minutes for 3 miles and future lines will be 20 percent faster. I gave my thoughts on the lightning issue a few pages back: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/possible-new-gondola-transportation.924477/page-73#post-7586196

I think the 3S issue comes down mostly to cost and to a lesser extent, space. There's a reason no one has ever bought a 3S with more than two sections. They are incredibly expensive. Whistler Blackcomb's was $51 million for a single section (albeit an impressive one) in 2008. Tri-cable stations occupy significantly more land than monocable stations, especially with the need to turn sharp corners.

Are the 3S systems any more safe than a monocable system? Is it possible Disney may deal with the additional expense with the promise of added safety?

It seems like those systems usually seat 20-30 people onboard a single gondola and usually oprerate as trams almost as opposed to the constant rotation of 15 second spreads between the gondolas themselves, so are there any mini 3S systems which operate more like a monocable but have potential added safety?

 

[Lift Blog]

Are the 3S systems any more safe than a monocable system? Is it possible Disney may deal with the additional expense with the promise of added safety?

It seems like those systems usually seat 20-30 people onboard a single gondola and usually oprerate as trams almost as opposed to the constant rotation of 15 second spreads between the gondolas themselves, so are there any mini 3S systems which operate more like a monocable but have potential added safety?

Both are so safe that it's tough to even quantify. The only fatal gondola accident in American history occurred on a bi-cable model at Vail in 1976. 3S gondolas have been involved in zero fatal accidents worldwide. Monocable gondolas also enjoy a perfect safety record in the United States.

Both 3S and monocable gondolas operate continuously and can achieve almost the same capacity (5,000 pphpd vs. 4500 respectively) with the latter at much lower cost. Idea being, the smaller the cabins, the closer together they can be. Chairlifts take this a step further with 2-6 passenger chairs as little as six seconds apart.

 

[Creathir]

Both are so safe that it's tough to even quantify. The only fatal gondola accident in American history occurred on a bi-cable model at Vail in 1976. 3S gondolas have been involved in zero fatal accidents worldwide. Monocable gondolas also enjoy a perfect safety record in the United States.

Both 3S and monocable gondolas operate continuously and can achieve almost the same capacity (5,000 pphpd vs. 4500 respectively) with the latter at much lower cost. Idea being, the smaller the cabins, the closer together they can be. Chairlifts take this a step further with 2-6 passenger chairs as little as six seconds apart.

So if thruput is identical as is safety, why would a company install the 3-5 times more expensive 3S system?

 

[Lift Blog]

So if thruput is identical as is safety, why would a company install the 3-5 times more expensive 3S system?

Two reasons...somewhat better wind resistance and mostly to be able to go long spans between towers. Peak 2 Peak soars 1.88 miles and up to 1,427 feet above ground between towers 2 and 3. Not very applicable in Florida.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Two reasons...somewhat better wind resistance and mostly to be able to go long spans between towers. Peak 2 Peak soars 1.88 miles and up to 1,427 feet above ground between towers 2 and 3. Not very applicable in Florida.

Oh, so essentially unless they can find some other reason to have 3 there is really a 0% chance. Thanks!

 

[Kamikaze]

Two reasons...somewhat better wind resistance and mostly to be able to go long spans between towers. Peak 2 Peak soars 1.88 miles and up to 1,427 feet above ground between towers 2 and 3. Not very applicable in Florida.

As you write a blog on the subject, I'm curious - how many different gondola/lifts have you been on? And what is your favorite?

 

[Lipinski82]

So what happens every single day in the summer when it starts lightening ?

 

[danlb_2000]

So what happens every single day in the summer when it starts lightening ?

These systems operate in some of the harshest environments on Earth but there's no question lightning poses a challenge. Keep in mind with the rumored WDW system no one would ever be more than a few minutes from a station. The ski area I work at in Wyoming gets daily afternoon thunderstorms and operates 3 lifts in the summer. Typically, we monitor storms and clear the lines of riders when strikes are registered within about 10 miles. Once the lifts are stopped, we attach special grounding clamps to the cables. When the storm passes, the clamps come off and the lifts are started right back up. I imagine Disney has plenty of experience with lightning monitoring and procedures for other types of rides.

The towns of Telluride and Mountain Village in Colorado operate a gondola transit system with a custom lightning protection system to minimize downtime: http://www.lightningprotection.com/pdfs/resources/knowledge-transfer/case-studies/lec-mtn-village-transportation-case-study-020513.pdf

 

[Lift Blog]

As you write a blog on the subject, I'm curious - how many different gondola/lifts have you been on? And what is your favorite?

As I mentioned before, there are 112 gondolas in North America (110 monocable, 1 bicable, 1 3S.) I've ridden 48 of them.

Peak 2 Peak holds multiple world records so that's probably my favorite. Another one that stands out is the Golden Eagle Express at Kicking Horse, British Columbia:

 

[Laketravis]

Also, I can see people imagining that these are going extremely high off of the ground, high enough to see into backstage areas. But these can actually stay relatively close to the ground, and with trees views could easily be blocked.

I was actually thinking that way as well - perhaps we aren't going to see 30-50 foot towers with this. In fact, Disney could mitigate much of the safety risk and easily address other factors such as aesthetics by keeping the system very low to the ground, perhaps only a foot or so above, oh, let's say a gravel path? Even when having to rise above grade to clear obstacles like buildings and cross roads there could be supported paths directly beneath your feet. My bet is heavy emphasis on keeping everything as low to the ground as possible.

 

[danlb_2000]

I was actually thinking that way as well - perhaps we aren't going to see 30-50 foot towers with this. In fact, Disney could mitigate much of the safety risk and easily address other factors such as aesthetics by keeping the system very low to the ground, perhaps only a foot or so above, oh, let's say a gravel path? Even when having to rise above grade to clear obstacles like buildings and cross roads there could be supported paths directly beneath your feet. My bet is heavy emphasis on keeping everything as low to the ground as possible.

With the exception of the CBR section most of the path passes over open space or parking lots, so they could keep it pretty low.

 

[Bocabear]

I was actually thinking that way as well - perhaps we aren't going to see 30-50 foot towers with this. In fact, Disney could mitigate much of the safety risk and easily address other factors such as aesthetics by keeping the system very low to the ground, perhaps only a foot or so above, oh, let's say a gravel path? Even when having to rise above grade to clear obstacles like buildings and cross roads there could be supported paths directly beneath your feet. My bet is heavy emphasis on keeping everything as low to the ground as possible.

but what would be the point of that? A low to the ground gondola would still be subject to traffic and other obstacles...that is the whole point for elevating it to begin with...