News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[tirian]

Lock them in a gift shop til the weather clears.......

That’s nearly SOP in serious storms. Everything but the lock-in.

 

[SirWillow]

I think taking that comment personally is a bit much. If we ALL lived by the rule of taking shelter every time lightning was within TEN MILES of our location what would that look like? While a lightning strike is tragic and dangerous, it’s obviously exceedingly rare or we WOULD all live by that 10 mile rule.

My question is largely around whether 10 miles is a reasonable cutoff or overly conservative

Personally? Not really, except I've seen enough up close and personal from working at Disney and Silver Dollar City (sorry, NDA's don't allow me to go into detail on that), know personally a couple of people who suffered the consequences of lack of safety and awareness, and when working at SDC had to constantly deal with people upset when we wouldn't run the train because of lightning. Is it personal? No, I just am familiar with the other side vs those who don't want to be.

And reasonably cutoff? Most outdoor pro sporting events now follow similar rules. I know of several local fairs that do as well for anything outdoors, and both of our local raceways have a rule that if there is lightning within 10 miles- even if it's going the opposite direction- the stands are emptied and the races are on hold until it's well out of range. Or, like I said, pretty much every theme or amusement park in North America. There is most definitely a growing awareness of the danger of lightning from a distance, whether to people, operations, equipment or otherwise. Just many individuals haven't caught up on that yet.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Personally? Not really, except I've seen enough up close and personal from working at Disney and Silver Dollar City (sorry, NDA's don't allow me to go into detail on that), know personally a couple of people who suffered the consequences of lack of safety and awareness, and when working at SDC had to constantly deal with people upset when we wouldn't run the train because of lightning. Is it personal? No, I just am familiar with the other side vs those who don't want to be.

And reasonably cutoff? Most outdoor pro sporting events now follow similar rules. I know of several local fairs that do as well for anything outdoors, and both of our local raceways have a rule that if there is lightning within 10 miles- even if it's going the opposite direction- the stands are emptied and the races are on hold until it's well out of range. Or, like I said, pretty much every theme or amusement park in North America. There is most definitely a growing awareness of the danger of lightning from a distance, whether to people, operations, equipment or otherwise. Just many individuals haven't caught up on that yet.

And gondola systems elsewhere? That’s what this is about — not sporting venues or theme parks in general. Do they shut down when lightning is within 10 miles? Is that the normal threshold?

I did a quick google search as I’m running between appointments now and didn’t find much that was useful... and some contradictory...


"You cannot run a gondola in a lightning storm is the problem, you would have to shut down, but that is typically not for long."
...
Mory said the city used years of research LeClair had done on gondola technology, which all points to a feasible transportation system in the Florida climate.

"It's not a danger for lightning strikes or any of the wind you'd receive in a normal storm," Mory said.

Tampa Bay weather no worry for gondolas, experts say

CLEARWATER — Gondolas have suddenly become a thing in Pinellas County, as officials in both Clearwater and St. Petersburg are mulling the sky crawlers as an alternative to cars and buses.

www.google.com

“That was the question: What happens in the event of lightning?

I recently had lunch with a group of individuals that included a cable engineer and lightning was was the topic of conversation. I asked him about the issue and what solutions had been engineered to avoid service disruptions due to it.

Much to everyone’s reassurance, he listed a variety of methods to ground and eliminate the effects of lightning on ropeway systems. None were very new or expensive and most were rather straightforward.

In other words: Gondolas, when designed properly, will function perfectly fine in the event of lightning.

“Why then,” I asked, “do you not make those solutions better known?”

I hear worries about lightning constantly. Urban dwellers (or at least their planners, bureaucrats and elected officials), it seems, are worried that these electrical discharges could compromise a system. As lightning is a fairly common occurrence, a public transit technology that cannot deal with it effectively would be virtually useless as mass urban transit. Hence my question.

The cable engineer paused, thought it through and answered with a fascinating (and eye-opening) response:

“We just think no one would let us build these things if they couldn’t handle lightning. I mean, they must be able to handle lightning. We wouldn’t build them if they couldn’t. And because we do build them and are allowed to build them, then we assume people know that they can handle lightning… I guess we must think differently.”

Indeed.”

What Happens When Lightning Strikes? « The Gondola Project

gondolaproject.com

 

[jt04]

Personally? Not really, except I've seen enough up close and personal from working at Disney and Silver Dollar City (sorry, NDA's don't allow me to go into detail on that), know personally a couple of people who suffered the consequences of lack of safety and awareness, and when working at SDC had to constantly deal with people upset when we wouldn't run the train because of lightning. Is it personal? No, I just am familiar with the other side vs those who don't want to be.

And reasonably cutoff? Most outdoor pro sporting events now follow similar rules. I know of several local fairs that do as well for anything outdoors, and both of our local raceways have a rule that if there is lightning within 10 miles- even if it's going the opposite direction- the stands are emptied and the races are on hold until it's well out of range. Or, like I said, pretty much every theme or amusement park in North America. There is most definitely a growing awareness of the danger of lightning from a distance, whether to people, operations, equipment or otherwise. Just many individuals haven't caught up on that yet.

Fairs, golf courses and such makes sense but there is an overreaction in other situations. I would have no problems getting on a gondola in a lightening storm. Probably one of the safer places.

 

[flynnibus]

And gondola systems elsewhere? That’s what this is about — not sporting venues or theme parks in general. Do they shut down when lightning is within 10 miles? Is that the normal threshold?

It does have relevancy because they are all plans to deal with the same risk. Pools do the same thing, with similar type of radius.. as do outdoor amusement rides.

You are fixated on gondolas as somehow different... they aren't really different in that they are trying to avoid the same risks.

And the cited article is not really addressing your question. Being able to handle a strike... is not necessarily the same thing as mandate to RUN during lightning storms. The comments (which are all unsourced, and hearsay, on a naturally biased site to begin with) are not absolute to mean the system would run unhindered. Simply that the systems are designed to survive lightning strikes.

Just like airoplanes are designed to be safe from lightning strikes... but pilots still avoid the storms and there still are risks.. even tho we say its safe to do so.

In the case of something like Disney or other entities... they can lean towards more than 'safe to do so' and instead opt for minimized risk.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

It does have relevancy because they are all plans to deal with the same risk. Pools do the same thing, with similar type of radius.. as do outdoor amusement rides.

You are fixated on gondolas as somehow different... they aren't really different in that they are trying to avoid the same risks.

And the cited article is not really addressing your question. Being able to handle a strike... is not necessarily the same thing as mandate to RUN during lightning storms. The comments (which are all unsourced, and hearsay, on a naturally biased site to begin with) are not absolute to mean the system would run unhindered. Simply that the systems are designed to survive lightning strikes.

Just like airoplanes are designed to be safe from lightning strikes... but pilots still avoid the storms and there still are risks.. even tho we say its safe to do so.

In the case of something like Disney or other entities... they can lean towards more than 'safe to do so' and instead opt for minimized risk.

I’m confused — Tampa Bay Times is biased? In any case... Like I said: just two quick links I found — I even said I didn’t find much that was useful and that’s why I’m asking the question here in hopes that someone who actually knows how these systems are run IN PRACTICE might respond.

And obviously companies can choose a comfortable risk level that may create a large buffer.

Do other systems shut down with a threshold of lightning within 10 miles — that is very clearly my stated question. I guess no one who’s responded so far knows the answer.

 

[flynnibus]

I’m confused — Tampa Bay Times is biased? In any case... Like a I said: just two quick links I found — I even said I didn’t find much that was useful and that’s why I’m asking the question here in hopes that someone who actually knows how these systems are run IN PRACTICE might respond.

The text body you quoted was what I was responding to. The TB newspaper article you also linked cited a consultant who said
"You cannot run a gondola in a lightning storm is the problem, you would have to shut down, but that is typically not for long."

Where he directly says you shutdown... but "is typically not for long"

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The text body you quoted was what I was responding to. The TB newspaper article you also linked cited a consultant who said
"You cannot run a gondola in a lightning storm is the problem, you would have to shut down, but that is typically not for long."

Where he directly says you shutdown... but "is typically not for long"

I said in my first post that some of what I found was contradictory, right??

I did a quick google search as I’m running between appointments now and didn’t find much that was useful... and some contradictory...

Again: that is why I am asking here.

Not interested in back and forth arguments like this, honestly. Not worth it.

But if someone knows the answer to my question (Do other gondola systems shut down with a threshold of lightning within 10 miles — assuming this is what Disney is planning), I’d love to hear it! Thx!

 

[flynnibus]

I said in my first post that some of what I found was contradictory, right??

And now you know why I responded about the 'contradictory' element you found. Go back and read my prior post. I addressed how the info was not really worthy of drawing the statement from.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Now that I've seen the cars move in person, I've got to say the ventilation might work after all. These things move surprisingly fast!

 

[marni1971]

I think taking that comment personally is a bit much. If we ALL lived by the rule of taking shelter every time lightning was within TEN MILES of our location what would that look like? While a lightning strike is tragic and dangerous, it’s obviously exceedingly rare or we WOULD all live by that 10 mile rule.

My question is largely around whether 10 miles is a reasonable cutoff or overly conservative if you’re going to run a system like this in FL in the summer. Given how unreliable this made their express bus transportation, I’m surprised they’d put in a system that would be as unreliable for a chunk of the year. Unless they’re going to use something LESS than the 10 mile cutoff??

The bottom line to me — as someone who visits WDW every August when this is a near-daily occurrence — is that the gondolas are now a nonstarter for me. I don’t want to count on that and then have to be diverted frequently (like exactly what happened with the defunct express bus transportation) so we’ll skip them altogether. And this puts the nail in the coffin of any consideration of buying at Riviera (we were not likely to do it but were considering if point cost wasn’t ridiculous).

And I’d love confirmation from someone who knows that gondola systems elsewhere actually observe a 10 mile rule wrt lightning.

The Gondola zone is less than ten miles. I missed where that number came from? Edit: found it.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The Gondola zone is less than ten miles. I missed where that number came from?

THANK YOU!!! Another poster stated 10miles — I’ve heard it quoted elsewhere in the past, but it isn’t something that I know for a fact AT ALL.

Do you know / can you say what that threshold is if <10mi?

I’m trying to get a sense of how (un)reliable it might be in the summer.

 

[SirWillow]

The Gondola zone is less than ten miles. I missed where that number came from? Edit: found it.

I wasn't sure what the gondola zone actually was. I used 10 miles as a measure as it is a commonly used one for outdoor attractions that are generally larger than a flat ride in most places.

I guess I could have used Rhino Rally's old lightning designation, which was 7 miles. And those were in rovers that were supposed to be as safe in a lightning strike as a car is. We still shut those down as a safety precaution.

The smallest designation I've seen used is 5 miles for a small flat ride.

And @MickeyMinnieMom it's already been stated, but you've missed it repeatedly- yes, other gondola systems shut down for lightning. In fact when I was at Vail, Colorado a couple of summers ago they shut one down just before we were going to get on due to lightning. And I've seen the one in Palm Springs close as well.

 

[marni1971]

I wasn't sure what the gondola zone actually was. I used 10 miles as a measure as it is a commonly used one for outdoor attractions that are generally larger than a flat ride in most places.

I guess I could have used Rhino Rally's old lightning designation, which was 7 miles. And those were in rovers that were supposed to be as safe in a lightning strike as a car is. We still shut those down as a safety precaution..

Thank you. Rhino Rally... that’s a (fun) blast from the past.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

And @MickeyMinnieMom it's already been stated, but you've missed it repeatedly- yes, other gondola systems shut down for lightning. In fact when I was at Vail, Colorado a couple of summers ago they shut one down just before we were going to get on due to lightning. And I've seen the one in Palm Springs close as well.

Again: what is the threshold distance away for “lightning in the area” for other gondola systems?? Did I miss that info here repeatedly? If so, please point me to it. That’s been my question for pages now. All you’ve said is sometimes they shut down for lightning. I know that. That doesn’t help anyone gauge reliability in FL summers.

 

[Disneydad75]

The current lines run right through parking lots, so I don't see that as a limiting factor.

The poster had it marked as light rail, which would most likely be at ground level, instead as elevated in the way the Skyliner or Monorail are.

 

[joelkfla]

The poster had it marked as light rail, which would most likely be at ground level, instead as elevated in the way the Skyliner or Monorail are.

Light rail, people mover, etc. are not limited to straight lines as is a gondola lift; the tracks can be routed any way that's convenient (subject to minimum turn radius, of course.) At ground level, they're also less sensitive to sight lines.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ah! Ok. It was my understanding that at Riviera you had to transfer also. I should have said at "Caribbean Beach", when you have to transfer ... will they allow guests continue to their final destinations or will you have to ... find your way.

Caribbean Beach has bus stops that could be utilized if there is an issue departing from that station.

 

[Disneydad75]

Light rail, people mover, etc. are not limited to straight lines as is a gondola lift; the tracks can be routed any way that's convenient (subject to minimum turn radius, of course.) At ground level, they're also less sensitive to sight lines.

Correct, however my post was that the poster, as they had designed in the picture, would not be feasible as it didn't take into account the planned construction of the Swan\Dolphin expansion hotel in the area they designated as a route. I could see a light rail running from AK Lodge - AK - BB - CSR - YC\BC - EPCOT, with a terminus at or near the EPCOT bus dropoff, which would look more feasible than trying to turn the Skyliner turn station into some kind of Light rail \ Skyliner \ Friendship Boat transportation center. That would give access to transfer to Monorail to MK area.

 

[Rich Brownn]

I think taking that comment personally is a bit much. If we ALL lived by the rule of taking shelter every time lightning was within TEN MILES of our location what would that look like? While a lightning strike is tragic and dangerous, it’s obviously exceedingly rare or we WOULD all live by that 10 mile rule.

My question is largely around whether 10 miles is a reasonable cutoff or overly conservative if you’re going to run a system like this in FL in the summer. Given how unreliable this made their express bus transportation, I’m surprised they’d put in a system that would be as unreliable for a chunk of the year. Unless they’re going to use something LESS than the 10 mile cutoff??

The bottom line to me — as someone who visits WDW every August when this is a near-daily occurrence — is that the gondolas are now a nonstarter for me. I don’t want to count on that and then have to be diverted frequently (like exactly what happened with the defunct express bus transportation) so we’ll skip them altogether. And this puts the nail in the coffin of any consideration of buying at Riviera (we were not likely to do it but were considering if point cost wasn’t ridiculous).

And I’d love confirmation from someone who knows that gondola systems elsewhere actually observe a 10 mile rule wrt lightning.

10 miles is the norm for any ride that takes time to shut down. Remember if lightning strikes 10 miles away, its going to take several minutes to cycle down, by which time the storm could be completely overhead.