News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[mikejs78]

Well, then, how can you tell he's the King?

He took the sword.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

It's "cheaped out" in the sense they did not take the bold path of innovative transportation and just stuck with regular off the shelf stuff. The monorail wasn't picked because it was the most effective - it was Walt's folly in the sense he thought it represented the idea of clean, safe, integrated transportation and Disney continued with that in WDW. Same with the peoplemover... they (like many of the EPCOT ideals implemented in WDW) were intended to be inspirational models to show how the future could be. The relative uniqueness of the installations added to the mystique. Original WDW transportation concepts were bold.

So at WDW, they were unique-ish, futuristic, bold, and tied into the better future that WDW was selling... Now? "disney is spending to fix crowded buses and roads" and that's about it. That's how even tho Disney is doing something 'on their own' -- it still lacks the credit that prior choices have.

The Skyliner lacks the bold innovation and statements in transportation that other alternatives would have made. Like large scale autonomous vehicles, pods, etc.

I do get what you’re saying. However, as a customer, I care that the transportation is efficient for me to use. Reliable, as quick as possible, clean, etc. A proven model in this area is a good thing IMO.

I’d prefer they save the innovation for the attractions. And that’s a whole other discussion...

 

[ParksAndPixels]

But what? I think the idea is that they just sort of disappear by not drawing attention. I can certainly imagine worse things for the towers. Like those tacky Minnie Mouse cars driving around property. Do we really want to see red towers with polka dots? Instead of complaining, we should probably all be thanking Disney for using some restraint for once.

Is there something that is inherently more attractive about monorail beams, by the way? Especially ones that are covered with black mold and grime?



Not me! I won’t miss the smell of wet bandaids and kitty litter. Or being packed like sardines. Or trying to climb over strollers that are bigger than my first car.

You seem to be under the assumption that these won’t eventually have the same stink... I am happy they’re coming, for efficiency purposes and kinetic purposes. I liked the old gondola ride (although views of roof tops weren’t always that appealing). I’m sure it’ll all look much nicer when the towers are all tensioned and there is traffic moving on them.

I like the look of clean monorail beams than the towers, yes. Still infrastructure I know, but the more simplistic design of the beams aren’t visually as obstructive. That said, if they were clean they’d be a whole lot nicer looking! Yes, it’s possible to look at an issue (even on this forum) and see the pros and cons. You don’t have to be one extreme or the other for everything. If you prefer those conversations, we can jump over to the GOTG thread...

 

[peter11435]

You seem to be under the assumption that these won’t eventually have the same stink... I am happy they’re coming, for efficiency purposes and kinetic purposes. I liked the old gondola ride (although views of roof tops weren’t always that appealing). I’m sure it’ll all look much nicer when the towers are all tensioned and there is traffic moving on them.

I like the look of clean monorail beams than the towers, yes. Still infrastructure I know, but the more simplistic design of the beams aren’t visually as obstructive. That said, if they were clean they’d be a whole lot nicer looking! Yes, it’s possible to look at an issue (even on this forum) and see the pros and cons. You don’t have to be one extreme or the other for everything. If you prefer those conversations, we can jump over to the GOTG thread...

There’s a good chance these won’t have the odor issues the monorails have. The buses have no issues with odor like the monorails have.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

We must have had good monorail karma, because up until our trip last month, we were never in a monorail car with a really foul odor. Probably because I was thinking that this complaint was much ado about not-too-much, we rode in one that the description "stink" doesn't begin to cover it. I'll refrain from posting all of the things the kids said it smelled like... just truly disgusting. I can't believe they didn't try to do something about it before letting people ride in it -- that bad. Seems like the interior of the skyliner cabins would be easier to keep clean given the surfaces.

 

[Clamman73]

We must have had good monorail karma, because up until our trip last month, we were never in a monorail car with a really foul odor. Probably because I was thinking that this complaint was much ado about not-too-much, we rode in one that the description "stink" doesn't begin to cover it. I'll refrain from posting all of the things the kids said it smelled like... just truly disgusting. I can't believe they didn't try to do something about it before letting people ride in it -- that bad.

Last week while getting on one (forget the color) at the Contemporary, lady gets in and says it smells like a horse barn, girl says it smells like goats...lol

 

[mmssbrg2]

There’s a good chance these won’t have the odor issues the monorails have. The buses have no issues with odor like the monorails have.

That may be a contributing factor to the decision to use wood slat benches vs. upholstered seats. The wood is easier to keep clean and won’t trap odors.

 

[Kamikaze]

You seem to be under the assumption that these won’t eventually have the same stink...

No AC means they won't. Thats where the monorail smell comes from - mold/mildew in the AC system.

 

[Bender123]

Uh.. what?

The first problem is you keep arguing efficiencies without stating efficiencies of WHAT.

Buses have lower per person efficiencies compared to a heavy haul, higher capacity vehicle...(in terms of customers per cycle) but offset that with the ability to scale horizontally and the much greater advantage of scaling up AND down.

These discussions will always go in circles until you are both discussing the same thing.

Are you optimizing equipment costs, labor, travel time, wait time, etc.

Remember... there are solid reasons why all transportation systems are layered systems of different types.. almost always ending up with bus on the edge.

Buses reign supreme for flexible demand with route diversity.

The easy answer to the bus "efficiency" issue is that the number of busses needed to match the throughput of the gondola would be absurd...think in the neighborhood of five or six busses loaded and dispatched every ten minutes. That number is assuming the gondola is UNDER the same capacity that other similar systems use.

Before you start saying..."well...hire more busses and drivers, so you can flex". You also need support systems to utilize them...this means, more standing lots for empty busses to wait/full bus unload, more bus load platforms (you aren't turning a bus around every 1.5-2 minutes...just not possible, or at the best extremely unlikely) and things like more traffic lanes/increased congestion to add in all those busses. Remember...its not just the five busses you see at the park, based on travel times, there are likely about 15-20 busses en route to their destination each way, so lets be conservative...30 busses total on the road, in addition to the ones waiting to load unload, so about 40 busses...per route...yep. Per Route. If you want to keep that efficiency level up for the hotels you serve, you would need this running for everything. So lets be conservative and say to service the hotels at the same lowest level theoretical of the gondolas, you would need about 80-90 busses. Im not even joking. If you say "nuh uh...they don't need those busses going both ways...". Yeah, you do. At park close, the bus would drop at the resort and likely need to make a return trip with NO guests...making it a dead trip and pure waste.

Now you are likely asking, "But Bender...the gondola is dumb, because it still takes time and isn't flexible. You can always tae those busses off the routes and move them around." Well...yes, but outside peak times, what do you do with your 80 extra busses and drivers? The advantage of the gondola is that the cost to operate it with one person on the system vs 2000 is exactly the same. It scales up to its maximum with no loss in efficiency. What you lose in route flexibility, you gain...big time, in scale and operational costs. If you need three Cast Members per Gondola station, you need three cast members.

Basically, the efficiency of the gondola has a definite limit, just like anything, but in order to match it, the bus system would need to be ludicrously efficient and insanely expensive.

There are other issues at play here, too...like having that many busses would actually cause overall efficiency to plummet (there is a reason for the number of monorails per beam...ay more and the whole system starts a cascade failure)..but that's for the next story. Im just assuming the bus is hyper efficient and the gondolas are running at their lowest standard operational efficiency.

 

[peter11435]

That may be a contributing factor to the decision to use wood slat benches vs. upholstered seats. The wood is easier to keep clean and won’t trap odors.

Very likely.

 

[Amused to Death]

You seem to be under the assumption that these won’t eventually have the same stink...

No assumption needed. The bulk of the monorail’s foul smell comes from poorly maintained AC units filled with mildew/mold. The rest comes from the idiotic decision to have upholstered seats and carpeted walls inside of the cabins. No AC, upholstery, or carpet in the gondolas. Smaller scale, of course, but those of us who remember riding the old Skyway to Fantasyland/Tomorrowland buckets probably don’t have any foul smells associated with those memories. I know I don’t.

 

[GCTales]

He took the sword.

View attachment 327014

You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you

 

[ParksAndPixels]

No assumption needed. The bulk of the monorail’s foul smell comes from poorly maintained AC units filled with mildew/mold. The rest comes from the idiotic decision to have upholstered seats and carpeted walls inside of the cabins. No AC, upholstery, or carpet in the gondolas. Smaller scale, of course, but those of us who remember riding the old Skyway to Fantasyland/Tomorrowland buckets probably don’t have any foul smells associated with those memories. I know I don’t.

Can’t disagree, as long as the maintenance/ cleaning stays up on the gondolas we SHOULD be okay. Skyway isn’t really a fair comparison though because it was so open. Trying to remember did they have plexi panels on top half near end of their run?

 

[Incomudro]

^This. Geez people. If you don't melt or spontaneously combust waking down main Street you aren't going to in the gondola either. It isn't like leaving a kid in a car with the windows closed. The ventilation will make it so the interior temperature is similar to the exterior temperature. If you can survive outside you will be fine inside.

There's a psychological component.
Being hot out on the street - Main Street, or any street USA or otherwise - is quite different than being hot in an enclosed box.

 

[MisterPenguin]

There's a psychological component.
Being hot out on the street - Main Street, or any street USA or otherwise - is quite different than being hot in an enclosed box.

Threre's a psychological component, indeed.

 

[Incomudro]

Threre's a psychological component, indeed.

But there is.
Whether it effects you or I is besides the point.
There is an absolute psychological component of anxiety that effects people in smaller spaces, and being hot and humid in a small enclosed space that one cannot step out of - whether it's a 5 or 10 minute ride, vs being the same temp on terra firma effects different people in different ways.

 

[GoofGoof]

It's "cheaped out" in the sense they did not take the bold path of innovative transportation and just stuck with regular off the shelf stuff. The monorail wasn't picked because it was the most effective - it was Walt's folly in the sense he thought it represented the idea of clean, safe, integrated transportation and Disney continued with that in WDW. Same with the peoplemover... they (like many of the EPCOT ideals implemented in WDW) were intended to be inspirational models to show how the future could be. The relative uniqueness of the installations added to the mystique. Original WDW transportation concepts were bold.

So at WDW, they were unique-ish, futuristic, bold, and tied into the better future that WDW was selling... Now? "disney is spending to fix crowded buses and roads" and that's about it. That's how even tho Disney is doing something 'on their own' -- it still lacks the credit that prior choices have.

The Skyliner lacks the bold innovation and statements in transportation that other alternatives would have made. Like large scale autonomous vehicles, pods, etc.

I think this is a valid point. It’s not just cheaper it’s a lack of appetite to take a real risk. More innovative and less proven transportation would have been way more risky. These types of systems are pretty well tested worldwide and outside of getting Americans to accept that a gondola can be used for something other than skiing they pose very little chance of failure. They also have a pretty constant and known cost to operate and maintain. With anything new you always run the risk of unforeseen issues resulting in more costs downstream.

 

[GoofGoof]

But there is.
Whether it effects you or I is besides the point.
There is an absolute psychological component of anxiety that effects people in smaller spaces, and being hot and humid in a small enclosed space that one cannot step out of - whether it's a 5 or 10 minute ride, vs being the same temp on terra firma effects different people in different ways.

I think we need to wait to see if that proves out. Similar systems in warm climates seem to work fine around the world. It may be the case that the anticipation of an unpleasant experience is way worse than the actual experience. I think most guests won’t be bothered because they won’t even know there is no AC until they board the gondolas and with the motion and moving air it won’t seem like an issue. Only a very small fraction of actual system users obsess over everything Disney like we do. There are some people here who have already decided it’s going to be too hot. When you go in looking for a problem you are sure to find one.

 

[Bocabear]

You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you

A damp bink lobbing swords at passers by... I love that scene

 

[Bocabear]

I think we need to wait to see if that proves out. Similar systems in warm climates seem to work fine around the world. It may be the case that the anticipation of an unpleasant experience is way worse than the actual experience. I think most guests won’t be bothered because they won’t even know there is no AC until they board the gondolas and with the motion and moving air it won’t seem like an issue. Only a very small fraction of actual system users obsess over everything Disney like we do. There are some people here who have already decided it’s going to be too hot. When you go in looking for a problem you are sure to find one.

I did the Gondolas in Hong Kong to the top of Lantau Island...It was a very hot humid day there, and the car was comfortable and pleasant...of course they are a lot higher than the WDW system will be, but it should be ok...