lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
This isn’t an old Von Roll 101, it’s automated. This is not a new system. Capacity has been studied in many other installations, all of which also have the constraints of human capability.
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News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -
- Thread starter danlb_2000
- Start date
Disney is supposedly working with Doppelmayr to try to get the system to 5000 per hour.
Patcheslee
Well-Known Member
Technically Carribean is considered and Epcot resort, which only had bus access.
2 of the 5 value resorts connected if you combine Pop and Animation.
Lift Blog
Well-Known Member
Remember 4ish cabins will be unloading at once. That means 4-5 seconds per person to unload. In my experience, people loading and unloading gondolas tend to think they have way less time than they actually do and move quickly. Disney has extended standard ski resort loading distances significantly and added special needs zones. The only part we don't know is the speed.
From bio today:
Even at the very low end of estimating its people per hour rate -- rock bottom, it will 'eat' 200 people every six minutes. Imagine seeing a line with 200 people and thinking, "ugh." And then for the next six minutes, you're continually moving and then you're on.
We think a ride with a 15 minute wait is short.
We think a ride with a 15 minute wait is short.
Skibum1970
Well-Known Member
And we'll happily wait 20 minutes until the next bus shows up.
Notes from Neverland
Well-Known Member
If you have the option to wait for a bus.
Skibum1970
Well-Known Member
Agreed but my intention was to show that we'll wait 20 minutes for a resort bus and thus we shouldn't be too upset if we have to wait five to ten minutes to board a gondola. My guess is that they'll keep resort buses around but reduce their numbers.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
They've said... no buses. Things are always changing, but, it seems like if they have made it clear the the transportation from those resorts to Epcot and DHS is the Gondola, then that is what it will be. There is other transportation available, at your own expense, but, you didn't have to stay at those resorts if it was a problem for you. We will see soon enough. I'm sure that I don't know what's going to happen by next summer.
Lensman
Well-Known Member
I think it's a good question of whether they do or don't, but I'm betting that they don't because:
1. Ridership will be so low as for it to be uneconomical or so infrequent that people complain. If it's more than a half hour between buses, people are going to complain about the frequency.
2. Having the buses in addition to the gondola will be confusing. Some people will get confused and think they have to take the bus. And these are the people who will complain about the frequency.
My guess is that people who absolutely won't ride the Skyliner will have to take the bus to Disney Springs and transfer there to Epcot or DHS. (But wait, don't the buses from the Springs to Epcot and DHS not run in the morning? Then I guess people will have to do a double-connect.)
Reducing buses means longer waits for them. If you have 1/3 the number of buses, then rather the goal of every 20 minutes, buses will come once an hour. Guests will freak.
Creathir
Well-Known Member
Unless it’s made absolutely clear that they can hop on the gondola and depart immediately.
We’ll see what happens.
winstongator
Well-Known Member
The gondola doesn't have to be used by everyone. I've found that most resorts have up to two ways to get to a park. Monorail loop has that plus boats and walking. Epcot area has walking and boats. I, as WDW transportation czar, would monitor the bus traffic. I am partial to non-personal-car modes of transport. AoA & Pop combined have ~5k rooms. At a 2-1-1-1 breakdown, that's 2k rooms to Epcot & DHS. At 4 people per room, 4k riders/hr, you could clear that in 2 hrs in the AM - evening might be more difficult.
Say 50 people per bus, one every 20 minutes, it doesn't even come close. 8k people staying at AoA. 1/5 going to Epcot = 1600. 32 busloads, or all day to get everyone there! Even the jumbo buses would take close to 5 hours. Is my math off? Given those numbers too, missing a bus because it's full must be super frustrating! Where the passenger volume load on the gondolas really helps is that people waiting for the bus have less to worry about missing it. I don't know why I never did the math on how many buses would actually be needed to handle all guest transportation. My experience with the bus system in Gainesville was that there're two wait time thresholds - above it (30min), almost no one uses it, below the lower limit (10?) you get max possible adoption.
Trying to remember how many times we've missed a port orleans bus because it was full. Maybe a couple, but in those cases, there was pretty close behind it.
winstongator
Well-Known Member
How many buses does WDW have on the road at a given time - say average and then peak, park close times?
Lets Respect
Well-Known Member
We went up to Vermont last week for a few days. We rode the gondola at Stowe up to the top of Mt Mansfield. It's a Doppelmayr, I believe an 8 seater
I brought my travel alarm clock which has a room thermometer. It was 70 outside and once we were in the gondola it was 80.
The biggest thing I cannot see working out is the continuous movement of the gondola cars for boarding and unloading. Unless there is a way to completely pull the cars off the line and let people load, I cannot see a way that an ECV can safely load, nor an open stroller. Even a family with little kids is going to be hard-pressed to jump on and off in time. As well as anyone who isn't physically nimble for whatever reason. I consider myself relatively fit and I almost flopped on my face getting off the first time.
They did stop the gondola to allow an older person to board. It stopped the whole line and everyone who was in the air was stopped. It took a while for it to stop and a while to power back up. With a million alarms going off as a warning. And everyone who was in a car was stuck there for a bit
Anyway, I do think the temps are going to be an issue, but more importantly, I think the loading and unloading is going to be a disaster unless Disney has built a system where cars can come completely off. Think how long the monorail, boats and buses sit there loading people.
I loved the gondola ride but I think this is an unwise choice for the clientele at WDW. Unless of course there is something that I am missing and cars can come completely off to load without interrupting the movement of the whole line
I brought my travel alarm clock which has a room thermometer. It was 70 outside and once we were in the gondola it was 80.
The biggest thing I cannot see working out is the continuous movement of the gondola cars for boarding and unloading. Unless there is a way to completely pull the cars off the line and let people load, I cannot see a way that an ECV can safely load, nor an open stroller. Even a family with little kids is going to be hard-pressed to jump on and off in time. As well as anyone who isn't physically nimble for whatever reason. I consider myself relatively fit and I almost flopped on my face getting off the first time.
They did stop the gondola to allow an older person to board. It stopped the whole line and everyone who was in the air was stopped. It took a while for it to stop and a while to power back up. With a million alarms going off as a warning. And everyone who was in a car was stuck there for a bit
Anyway, I do think the temps are going to be an issue, but more importantly, I think the loading and unloading is going to be a disaster unless Disney has built a system where cars can come completely off. Think how long the monorail, boats and buses sit there loading people.
I loved the gondola ride but I think this is an unwise choice for the clientele at WDW. Unless of course there is something that I am missing and cars can come completely off to load without interrupting the movement of the whole line
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lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Thank You for again bringing up issues that have already been addressed, repeatedly. There are accessible loading areas at the terminal stations and 70 F is not a temperature that is usually ventilated for cooling.
note2001
Well-Known Member
I'm positive Disney has done many proof-of-concept tests on the system before committing to such a large installation. They have teams who specialize in risk assessment and will make sure no one is twisting an ankle, knee or hip, other than they may have done getting off of a bus or stepping off a curb on their own. We've seen videos posted in this thread that show cars can be completely stopped for loading and unloading. That won't be an issue.
You are correct that the Disney clientele is a totally different demographic than ski areas (and mining). More children, elderly, special needs and just folk getting off and running back in at the last moment to retrieve that backpack/cup/sunglasses/phone. Seems the average IQ is lowered by 20 points when dealing with Disney transportation. This too they have thought of.
I just want to see the actual throughput numbers in action
Lets Respect
Well-Known Member
There are accessible loading stations? Where the entire car comes off the track and is held stationary and then rejoins the line? That's great if that's true. And I hope they are available to many people, not just people in ECVs and wheelchairs
It was 70 outside and 80 in the car. The "passive ventilation" system was in motion and consisted of two vents at the top of the window. Yes, a breeze did come in when the car was in motion, but it was still 10 degrees hotter than outside. So put it in Orlando when it's 90 and do the math. But I don't want to belabor that point
I still can't see how these things work at WDW with the continuous loading and unload. When I think of the clientele at WDW, this would not be the transportation system I would think of. It's a great way to move fit skiers in the French Alps though
Lets Respect
Well-Known Member
I'm 100% positive Disney has done many proof-of-concept tests on the system before committing to such a large installation and have people who specialize in risk assessment. They will make sure no one is twisting an ankle, knee or hip other than they may have done getting off of a bus or stepping off a curb on their own.
We've seen videos posted in this thread that cars can be completely stopped for loading and unloading. That won't be an issue.
You are correct that the Disney clientele is a totally different demographic than ski areas (and mining). More children, elderly, special needs and just folk getting off and running back in at the last moment to retrieve that backpack/cup/sunglasses/phone. Seems the average IQ is lowered by 20 points when dealing with Disney transportation. This too they have thought of.
I just want to see the actual throughput numbers in action
That's good that cars can be completely stopped. I assume that will be for people with disabilities and not an option for everyone?
To your last paragraph, that is exactly what I am talking about. Children, elderly, people wearing gigantic backpacks, strollers. People who don't do a drop of exercise all year until they come to Orlando for their yearly Disney fix. Both the loading and unloading is not slow but the unloading is going to be the bigger problem IMO. There's nothing to hold onto and then you have to turn around and get your family off
Maybe Bob Iger was on a ski vacation in the French Alps and thought this would be a cheap way to add some more transportation