News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[marni1971]

Could it be 2 line systems with Trinidad being a turn/unload/load for the Epcot/HS line and a terminus for the Pop to CBR line?.

I don't believe so.

 

[danlb_2000]

How tall are the CBR buildings in question?

All the buildings in that area are only two floors, so not very tall.

 

[WildernessMan83]

Thanks to @rfc0001 for bringing the line down to AoA/Pop, now we have an updated map:
View attachment 190125

I'm going to jump in on this hypothesizing fun...

People have pointed out how the DHS station is larger than the other terminals. After seeing the other thread about potential new Epcot/DHS resort locations, and seeing where he had placed the Star Wars resort, maybe the DHS station will accept a line coming in from the south on the west side of the building. It's almost in direct line with the potential site for Star Wars resort.

I usually lurk here, but all these maps and sleuthing is fun stuff!

 

[HauntedPirate]

I was thinking they should have the station at PoP/AoA in the middle of Hourglass Lake. I love that idea!

Along the lines of what @WDW1974 mentioned, I was thinking Disney would eventually be moving to area-based resort classifications instead of value/moderate/deluxe. It gives them the ability to do "demand-based pricing", Ala theme park tickets, to go along with the opening of Pandora and SWL. "See the new Star Wars Land attractions! Stay at a MAGICAL!!! DHS-area resort for 6-nights/7-days starting at $129 per person per night for a family of four! Stay closer to the MAGIC!!!" To keep this post on-topic, moving to a resort pricing model like that also allows them to charge more for monorail resorts and for gondola resorts while keeping the All-Stars, as an example, as their catch-all for those without the financial means to stay at one of the more expensive resorts. Or Port Orleans for those liking a moderate resort without the premium pricing of CBR.

 

[rfc0001]

This 100 feet number is not really accurate. The building is labeled FFE (Finished Floor Height) of 100, but checking with @Tom our former permit guy he explained that this is just a relative height in relation to other heights on the plan so doesn't really tell you anything about how tall the building is.

FFE = Finish Floor Elevation, which is the elevation (absolute - relative to sea level) of the ground floor. E.g. the structure in DHS has a FFE of 99 ft above sea level. Orlando is around 106 feet above sea level. You can see the elevation contour lines around the structure ranging from 97 to 103 ft above sea level:

The part about traveling over the roofs of Jamaica and Aruba also troubles me. Everywhere else, they worked hard to go around buildings, rather than over. That's why I initially was convinced that those two areas would also be torn down and replaced. But insiders have been saying they will stay.

There is clearly more to the CBR changes than we have been able to figure out. For example, they are realigning ponds in areas where there is no apparent need to do so. Something else is happening, we just don't know what yet.

All the buildings in that area are only two floors, so not very tall.

The roofs of the existing CBR buildings are ~'40 tall. They could easily put towers on either side of the buildings to raise the cables up significantly higher than the stations on either end. If they built these towers on land which was previously improved, they wouldn't necessarily show up in the permit. Something like where the red dots are:

 

[danlb_2000]

Not that I really think we need more evidence for this project, but I just remembered this permit from last year that was for additional geo-technical borings to determine soil conditions. The work are is where the access road will go. I don't see why they would need to do this sort of thing just for an access road so this seams to evidence that support towers will be built along there.

 

[rfc0001]

I just remembered this permit from last year that was for additional geo-technical borings to ***** soil conditions.

I can't imagine what were they were doing to that poor soil

 

[Maeryk]

So if eventually all 4 major parks are connected, does the monorail get taken out of service for cost saving/safety measures or do they keep it running for higher transportation capacity? I could never see them getting rid of it, but crazier things have happened...

Good question. I see them wanting to keep the monorails, as that's very much a Disney signature. I also don't think they would have been putting in the modernization efforts on them (especially as old as the current trains are), if they didn't want to keep them moving in the future. That said, I know I had read they were having issues getting Bombardier to build new ones for them, and the current trains are near or at life expectancy.

Disney World has always been about multiple ways to get from point A to point B.. monorails and boats, busses and boats, whatever. They realized early on that a single transportation method is not a good choice.

but I can also see that A) they are unlikely to expand the monorails beyond current footprint... it's an incredibly expensive system to build, and B) they can't really take them out of service without having a massive transportation issue, especially between TTC and Epcot. It's possible the reason they haven't been modernized yet is simply because they can't actually take them out of service for the duration without it creating major headaches.

 

[danlb_2000]

I can't imagine what were they doing to that poor soil

Over protective filter!

 

[csmat99]

Did I?!

No you didn't. I corrected this in few posts later when I realized my wording sounded like you said there will be a train. So just to clarify before I get into anymore more trouble. You are saying there may be plans for some form of transportation between AK and AKL?

 

[marni1971]

You are saying there may be plans for some form of transportation between AK and AKL?

I believe it's being considered along with other projects.

Property wide it seems the busses could become the supplement, not the main form of transit.

 

[lifeguard1020]

I see people mentioning the complication of having to Unload the Re-Load at the Caribbean station to go from Epcot to the Studios. But as it is, that's the same situation to Monorail from the MK to Epcot...Transfer at the TTC...

 

[Maeryk]

Here is what the future of the monorail looks like to me.

I think you will end up with a dedicated ring that serves only the MK resorts and the MK. Then a second line that serves the MK and Epcot stations only. Eventually the TTC will be eliminated. IMO.

And just as a reminder, I was one of the first, if not only posters to mention gondolas as a possibility. And was dismissed as usual.

So you could say I have a "track" record. A monorail pun if you will.

I doubt the TTC will be "eliminated". They are busy expanding the parking lot dramatically there. Though I do think that the large bus hub in front of MK has taken over a lot of what used to be TTC bus transfers, two weeks ago we were trying to catch a DHS bus from TTC, and were told the one coming in was the last one for the morning (9 AM) and otherwise, monorail or ferry to MK and catch one there. So as long as they have some sort of transpo to the MK bus depot, early enough that people can make it from there, I see that happening.

on the gripping hand, the flyover they are building to make bus access to the TTC better may indicate they are actually going to utilize that more down the road. It's hard to say. Clearly they are looking, seriously, at the transportation issues and making some changes.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Over protective filter!

It would have to be considering all the filthy and perverse things you'd be doing to those poor soil samples!

 

[Maeryk]

I got it from this posted article and the video attached.

They were quoting the price as $3 to $12M per mile but it is a few years old and this is Disney so I upped it a little. I was also basing it on the Whistler gondola which covers about 3 miles and cost $50M to build. It connects the peaks of 2 mountains and is significantly taller than anything Disney would need so would be more expensive.

My understanding is the London project had pretty large budget overruns. The original budget was 25M pounds and the major driver of cost overruns was the cost to purchase the land needed. That's not an issue with Disney.

Capacity is relative to what you compare it to. I've read that the monorail has an hourly capacity of about 7,000 guests so if this system comes in between 4,000 and 5,000 each direction as speculated it would be "relatively" close to the monorail.

No way anyone is building a monorail for $10 to $15M per mile. The stations alone will blow the budgets way over the top since they need to be elevated. It shouldn't cost $85M per mile like the Vegas monorail either, but it's still gotta be much cheaper to build the gondola system. It's way cheaper to buy and install cable than it is to install metal or concrete tracks and supports.

The Bombardier MVI built in Vegas cost 88M/mile.. even with Disney not having to get property rights, etc, they aren't getting the price down a lot from that.

The Whistler Peak2Peak cost 51M total, can do 3mi between supports, and had the added cost of having everything hauled in, and either up a mountain or down into a valley. They had to fly the concrete in for the pours via helicopter to build it. That's much harder engineering than Disney has to deal with. I suspect their mile for mile cost will be significantly lower than the Whistler install.

 

[csmat99]

I see people mentioning the complication of having to Unload the Re-Load at the Caribbean station to go from Epcot to the Studios. But as it is, that's the same situation to Monorail from the MK to Epcot...Transfer at the TTC...

And actually will be even easier to transfer because unlike the monorail the gondolas will be constantly loading and unloading. According the the videos that were posted they can dispatch a new car every 15-20 seconds. So I don't think it will be a question of waiting in another line for 10-15 minutes.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Apparently there's this thing people have, which I don't understand, that having your room open to the outdoors or to a hallway is a huge determiner of the room's luxe-ness. Thus, it may be a hard sell to pitch the old CSR rooms as deluxe.

I don't know if it's a strong impulse guests have as much as just a coincidence that it happened to be the case for all Deluxe resorts in the past. It's actually a major advantage in terms of noise to have your room open to the outside because there are no lunatic kids running down the hallway and they have more robust soundproofing on the doors. My favorite resort is Animal Kingdom Lodge but if I were most concerned about getting a good night's sleep, I'd rather be at Old Key West.

 

[G00fyDad]

I believe it's being considered along with other projects.

Property wide it seems the busses could become the supplement, not the main form of transit.

As it should be with a company like Disney. I feel like they are doing things to stand out (again) from the competition.

 

[csmat99]

I don't know if it's a strong impulse guests have as much as just a coincidence that it happened to be the case for all Deluxe resorts in the past. It's actually a major advantage in terms of noise to have your room open to the outside because there are no lunatic kids running down the hallway and they have more robust soundproofing on the doors. My favorite resort is Animal Kingdom Lodge but if I were most concerned about getting a good night's sleep, I'd rather be at Old Key West.

I think it's an age thing with most people. The older people just remember motels being the only places where doors open to the outside. But there are plenty of luxury resorts all over the world that are this way. Obviously more in warmer climates but what makes a hotel luxury come down to the basics. The quality of bed/furniture/bathroom, the lobby (no doesn't have to be like WL) and level of service provided.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

I believe it's being considered along with other projects.

Property wide it seems the busses could become the supplement, not the main form of transit.

Excellent. Ideally, I hope the buses become limited to the "feeder" system that connects a resort (think internal shuttle) to the larger transport system. They can also serve as emergency back-up in cases of unexpected problems.

Martin, could you hint at how many potential modes we might be looking at if all these transportation plans go forward? As it stands we'll have 4 in the near future (monorail, watercraft, bus, and gondola) - should we expect to see any other types of systems?