News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[Lift Blog]

I was wondering the same thing. Would they bother painting them if they were hidden, @Lift Blog? Or do they just come in red unless specified by whoever is buying a system?

Doppelmayr has been painting bullwheels red for years. Generally they are obscured by the terminal underskin/work platform below.


We still haven't seen any renderings of the two angle stations, which may not have full enclosures. In that case, the bullwheels would be partially exposed. The hub station could also have exposed equipment if there are no Doppelmayr enclosures under the building roof.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Sure the guests will see them on load and unload. These are the pretty parts that show where the money went.

Even if they weren't visible, they would be painted to prevent corrosion. We shall see what we will see before long.

 

[SLUSHIE]

Anyway, back to point.... those stations do load on the turn.

Yes most modern gondolas will start loading on the curve. People generally take less time getting off than getting on, and at times were most people are going in the same direction and the majority of cabins coming in are empty, people can board early. I was aiming that comment at the person that said that the two curves would be the loading areas, which isn't going to be the case. People wont be able to access the interior curve due to the trench that will exist so the floor of the cabins remain level with the ground. When the cabin transitions to the interior curve there would be a drop to the ground.

This is also why I think there wont be round trip rides, because for safety reasons, unless the doors re-close before it goes around that interior curve (and I think they probably wont) they probably won't let people stay on in case someone wants to jump out or whatever on the curve.

So however this thing actually ends up working, the interior curve will have to be a no mans land. That is unless the exterior curve isn't actually used in normal operation and there is a false floor that covers up the exterior curves trench when its not in use.

 

[_caleb]

The use of parking/maintenance rails for stationary loading has never been done before to my knowledge. The problem is where do you find space to re-inject the cabin on an already closely-spaced line?

 

[SLUSHIE]

If you look further down the page, you can see I agreed with him. But now that we can there is something different about this lift, and as @Lift Blog said this is 'not normal' so now we are theorizing that the intention is.

But I guess to THEORIZE an answer to his question in the quote...

There is a chair at Breckenridge we have also talked about in the past that alternates chairs to two loading areas. Chairlifts generally keep a much larger gap between chairs than gondolas do between cabins so it works fine for that. If this system were to send a cabin every 20 cabins or so to the exterior turnaround, they could maintain a bigger gap around those specific cabins.

 

[marni1971]

We still haven't seen any renderings of the two angle stations, which may not have full enclosures. In that case, the bullwheels would be partially exposed. The hub station could also have exposed equipment if there are no Doppelmayr enclosures under the building roof.

The DVC station will be fully enclosed similar to the others.

I should have mentioned the double bullwheels last year; I didn’t understand the significance.

 

[nickys]

Yes most modern gondolas will start loading on the curve. People generally take less time getting off than getting on, and at times were most people are going in the same direction and the majority of cabins coming in are empty, people can board early. I was aiming that comment at the person that said that the two curves would be the loading areas, which isn't going to be the case. People wont be able to access the interior curve due to the trench that will exist so the floor of the cabins remain level with the ground. When the cabin transitions to the interior curve there would be a drop to the ground.

This is also why I think there wont be round trip rides, because for safety reasons, unless the doors re-close before it goes around that interior curve (and I think they probably wont) they probably won't let people stay on in case someone wants to jump out or whatever on the curve.

So however this thing actually ends up working, the interior curve will have to be a no mans land. That is unless the exterior curve isn't actually used in normal operation and there is a false floor that covers up the exterior curves trench when its not in use.

Thanks! That makes sense now.

 

[briangaw]

Yes. Not normal. I'm picturing one long straight unload, then doors close. Cabins go through one of the two turnarounds, merge back together on the other side, then doors reopen for loading.

Just speculating, but the second turn around could also be for when they need extra boarding time for wheelchair access so the whole line would not get backed up.

@Lift Blog I do see what you are saying with the turning limiting capacity and having two turns and splitting to help with that, but it wouldn't be a doubling effect would it? They still have to merge back and take a set space on the straightaway. I am sure you are looking for any examples now or where this has been seen before.

On the other hand to add to the speculation, I do think the idea of having a separate slowed or stopped area for the ECV and wheelchair or other loading could work especially with how short that second turnaround is. Apologize for the crude drawing:

So if I understand correctly everything after the red line I drew is off of the cable. So in usual loading the blue track is slowed down unload and then load. Now possibly (total speculation) they could have one or some number of stopped and staged gondolas on the orange ECV or stopped loading track. And once they load the gondola on the orange track or have someone who needs to unload on the orange track, the operator would push a button or if the systems are good enough and tracking specific gondolas (I have no clue about the control sophistication) it would be done automatically. This would then take an empty gondola or the gondola needed to be unloaded off of the blue track onto the orange leaving a gap then a staged gondola that was already on the orange track or one that was just loaded up would then be fed into the opened space on the blue track as it came around. So the total number of gondolas and the spacing would be constant on the line. This could work even if unloading someone on the orange spur track and an empty already staged gondola from the orange track was put into the blue track to fill its place as the empty gondola would then go through load and be loaded so no efficiency is lost. Interesting design at least in theory.

 

[larryz]

The double tracked station loop would solve the issue of ECV/wheelchair loading. Every sixth or eighth gondola could be designated as ECV/wheelchair only and directed onto that slow loading loop.

 

[danlb_2000]

@Lift Blog I do see what you are saying with the turning limiting capacity and having two turns and splitting to help with that, but it wouldn't be a doubling effect would it? They still have to merge back and take a set space on the straightaway. I am sure you are looking for any examples now or where this has been seen before.

On the other hand to add to the speculation, I do think the idea of having a separate slowed or stopped area for the ECV and wheelchair or other loading could work especially with how short that second turnaround is. Apologize for the crude drawing:
View attachment 279688
So if I understand correctly everything after the red line I drew is off of the cable. So in usual loading the blue track is slowed down unload and then load. Now possibly (total speculation) they could have one or some number of stopped and staged gondolas on the orange ECV or stopped loading track. And once they load the gondola on the orange track or have someone who needs to unload on the orange track, the operator would push a button or if the systems are good enough and tracking specific gondolas (I have no clue about the control sophistication) it would be done automatically. This would then take an empty gondola or the gondola needed to be unloaded off of the blue track onto the orange leaving a gap then a staged gondola that was already on the orange track or one that was just loaded up would then be fed into the opened space on the blue track as it came around. So the total number of gondolas and the spacing would be constant on the line. This could work even if unloading someone on the orange spur track and an empty already staged gondola from the orange track was put into the blue track to fill its place as the empty gondola would then go through load and be loaded so no efficiency is lost. Interesting design at least in theory.

This sounds likely. As mentioned before the blue curve cannot be used for loading due to the trench, but one the cars are back on the straightway they can be used for loading. The orange can be used for loading all the way around the curve.

 

[DisAl]

Won't it be fun when the system is put into service to see just how much we have been wrong about with all our speculation and guessing!

 

[tonymu]

Most of the Ski Gondolas I have been on have the bullwheel right before the turn around curve. As soon as you are off the bullwheel the door opens and you unload on the first half of the turn around curve and load on the second half of the turn around curve and then the doors close just before getting back on the bullwheel. If you look at the image above, the space on the track between the bullwheel and start of the turn around curve looks to be double the space you usually have to unload and then double the space on the other side of the turn around curve to load. It should give guests plenty of time to load. Way more than you usually would. And with a few cabins stopped on the orange wheel for those that need extra time this system should run pretty efficiently even with novice riders and strollers.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The double tracked station loop would solve the issue of ECV/wheelchair loading. Every sixth or eighth gondola could be designated as ECV/wheelchair only and directed onto that slow loading loop.

If the bench chairs fold up, then any car can be an ECV car.

 

[SLUSHIE]

Most of the Ski Gondolas I have been on have the bullwheel right before the turn around curve. As soon as you are off the bullwheel the door opens and you unload on the first half of the turn around curve and load on the second half of the turn around curve and then the doors close just before getting back on the bullwheel. If you look at the image above, the space on the track between the bullwheel and start of the turn around curve looks to be double the space you usually have to unload and then double the space on the other side of the turn around curve to load. It should give guests plenty of time to load. Way more than you usually would. And with a few cabins stopped on the orange wheel for those that need extra time this system should run pretty efficiently even with novice riders and strollers.

Yes, these station appear to be VERY long.

Compare it to this gondola station at Heavenly. (photo taken from @Lift Blog website)

In this photo, the turnaround is just out of frame, wrapping around the big cement column. The bullwheel is up inside the green thing somewhere around the middle of the photo. On the Disney one, there is an entire extra straight section after the bullwheel and first column before the second column and first turnaround. And then of course, there is the second turnaround after that. So yeah, very long station.

 

[Flalex72]

@Lift Blog I do see what you are saying with the turning limiting capacity and having two turns and splitting to help with that, but it wouldn't be a doubling effect would it? They still have to merge back and take a set space on the straightaway. I am sure you are looking for any examples now or where this has been seen before.

On the other hand to add to the speculation, I do think the idea of having a separate slowed or stopped area for the ECV and wheelchair or other loading could work especially with how short that second turnaround is. Apologize for the crude drawing:
View attachment 279688
So if I understand correctly everything after the red line I drew is off of the cable. So in usual loading the blue track is slowed down unload and then load. Now possibly (total speculation) they could have one or some number of stopped and staged gondolas on the orange ECV or stopped loading track. And once they load the gondola on the orange track or have someone who needs to unload on the orange track, the operator would push a button or if the systems are good enough and tracking specific gondolas (I have no clue about the control sophistication) it would be done automatically. This would then take an empty gondola or the gondola needed to be unloaded off of the blue track onto the orange leaving a gap then a staged gondola that was already on the orange track or one that was just loaded up would then be fed into the opened space on the blue track as it came around. So the total number of gondolas and the spacing would be constant on the line. This could work even if unloading someone on the orange spur track and an empty already staged gondola from the orange track was put into the blue track to fill its place as the empty gondola would then go through load and be loaded so no efficiency is lost. Interesting design at least in theory.

I think you're possibly on the right track with this idea. The cabins would be identical, but every X cabins one would take the orange route, and the one currently on the orange route would take its place on the blue route. The cabin (or possibly 2) a on the orange route would be able to stop and wait, if only 15-20 seconds, giving time for an ECV with an unfamiliar driver the opportunity to back into/out of the cabin.

 

[Jambo Joe]

I have to say with an estimate of 4,500 an hour, that's not going to happen at Disney. Disney people are much fatter then skiers, cut the estimate by 1/3. That is if the numbers are based off of ski resorts? Also the Disney crowd is much slower on foot, it takes a while to get them into anything. I've had to watch a couple of scooter people load on to a bus. It was like 10 minutes to get them and the other salt of the earth family members on the bus. Sometimes you just have to enjoy the spectacle.

I know I shouldn’t chuckle at this comment but I did. Now I feel bad.

 

[tonymu]

I think you're possibly on the right track with this idea. The cabins would be identical, but every X cabins one would take the orange route, and the one currently on the orange route would take its place on the blue route. The cabin (or possibly 2) a on the orange route would be able to stop and wait, if only 15-20 seconds, giving time for an ECV with an unfamiliar driver the opportunity to back into/out of the cabin.

I could see where there is always 2 or 3 cabins sitting stationary on the orange curve to be loaded with guests who need extra time. When you have one of the cabins on the orange curve ready to go you could hit a button that would pull a cabin off the main line onto the orange curve and when the gap from that cabin makes the turn, the cabin ready to go from the orange curve would get pulled into that gap. This way you keep the load and spacing on the main line consistent by pulling an empty cabin off the main line and replacing it with a loaded one from the orange loading curve.

 

[Jambo Joe]

I could see where there is always 2 or 3 cabins sitting stationary on the orange curve to be loaded with guests who need extra time. When you have one of the cabins on the orange curve ready to go you could hit a button that would pull a cabin off the main line onto the orange curve and when the gap from that cabin makes the turn, the cabin ready to go from the orange curve would get pulled into that gap. This way you keep the load and spacing on the main line consistent by pulling an empty cabin off the main line and replacing it with a loaded one from the orange loading curve.

I have no background in lift systems, but I was assuming something similar - the orange cars are loading off line and then inserted. Really looking forward to seeing the real thing.

 

[Gabe1]

Today studios. More poles than I remember last week

 

[pdude81]

Not practical at all to "put power on the support posts" since each gondola will only be at any given support for about one or two seconds.

Since we're talking about capacitors and not batteries, practicality would depend entirely on the system as designed.