News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[Club34]

bi-cable gondola? funitel? i would think the bi-cable design would make it safer. there is one at squaw. seemed to stabilize the ride with the wind going up the mountain.

 

[1966Plans]

bi-cable gondola? funitel? i would think the bi-cable design would make it safer. there is one at squaw. seemed to stabilize the ride with the wind going up the mountain.

The gondola at Squaw has 3 cables and capacity for 110+1.

 

[Club34]

The gondola at Squaw has 3 cables and capacity for 110+1.

you're thinking of the big one. there is another.

 

[1966Plans]

you're thinking of the big one. there is another.

Oops, forgot about that one.

 

[Lift Blog]

Seems the same as the one in London.

These are pretty big and and for comparison can accommodate a bike.

For comparison here is people sitting 5 across (designed for 4 across/8 total) so you can see it is plenty big.

Those are 10-passenger cabins not 8-passenger ones. Doppelmayr recently introduced a next-generation system called D-Line which offers ~10 percent more room per passenger than the standard system called UNI-G (stands for unified global and has been offered in the U.S. since 2000.) No one in North America has bought a D-Line system yet and there is some speculation in the lift world that Disney could be the first. In addition to more spacious cabins, there are a number of other improvements such as increased maximum speed. I've heard it costs somewhere around 20 percent more than the UNI-G system. Here are the D-Line promotional films Doppelmayr's sales guys probably showed Disney execs:

The gondola at Squaw has 3 cables and capacity for 110+1.

Squaw Valley does not currently operate a gondola system. They have a funitel and an aerial tramway. Different beasts.

bi-cable gondola? funitel? i would think the bi-cable design would make it safer. there is one at squaw. seemed to stabilize the ride with the wind going up the mountain.

Second and third cables are used these days to achieve very long spans, not to increase safety. It's not like one cable can break and the other one saves the day. I compare wire rope(s) on a lift to wings on an airplane. Super strong with a big safety factor and just about anything else would break first.

 

[GoofGoof]

Those are 10-passenger cabins not 8-passenger ones. Doppelmayr recently introduced a next-generation system called D-Line which offers ~10 percent more room per passenger than the standard system called UNI-G (stands for unified global and has been offered in the U.S. since 2000.) No one in North America has bought a D-Line system yet and there is some speculation in the lift world that Disney could be the first. In addition to more spacious cabins, there are a number of other improvements such as increased maximum speed. I've heard it costs somewhere around 20 percent more than the UNI-G system. Here are the D-Line promotional films Doppelmayr's sales guys probably showed Disney execs:




Squaw Valley does not currently operate a gondola system. They have a funitel and an aerial tramway. Different beasts.

Those are moving pretty fast. Not sure if Disney would spring for the 20% higher cost but they should

 

[SLUSHIE]

This incident did make me wonder, can wind push a gondola into a support column, or is the weight of the car just too high for that to happen? Obviously these are usually installed in very windy locations (mountains, hello?!?) but what does prevent a car from swaying into the support? Is it designed that they would hardly ever have that opportunity/be impossible?

They can absolutely swing and hit the towers, it needs to be very windy though. When I operated a lift, when it was windy we usually ran it on slow, running it on fast can cause the swinging to amplify sometimes. The damage would also be less if it did happen to hit a tower when while on slow. Usually the lift will be run on slow until the line is cleared if it is determined that the lift needs to stop operation.

At every lift, somewhere along the line on a tower or at the top, there are digital wind gauges that report the wind speed to the lift operators. There is operating procedures in place that determine when a lift should be run on slow or stopped because of high winds based on the wind speed.

 

[jaklgreen]

I can see a lot of issues with Disney guests using these. With the number of strollers and other wheeled conveyances that are used there and not to mention the brain fart people seem to have when at WDW, I can see lots of struggles. Can you just see the grandma trying to get in the entrance with her ECV, which is pretty narrow, and then ramming into the side of the door, etc. The number of cars that they will have to "pull off to the side" will be very high. I can see many back ups.

 

[Incomudro]

Seems the same as the one in London.

These are pretty big and and for comparison can accommodate a bike.

For comparison here is people sitting 5 across (designed for 4 across/8 total) so you can see it is plenty big.

No way we're fitting five average Disney guests per seat.
Perhaps two in some cases judging by this image.

 

[Incomudro]

I can see a lot of issues with Disney guests using these. With the number of strollers and other wheeled conveyances that are used there and not to mention the brain fart people seem to have when at WDW, I can see lots of struggles. Can you just see the grandma trying to get in the entrance with her ECV, which is pretty narrow, and then ramming into the side of the door, etc. The number of cars that they will have to "pull off to the side" will be very high. I can see many back ups.

Oh yeah.
I like the idea of this gondola system, I think it's cool - despite my air conditioning reservations.
But yeah, I foresee lots of struggles for many park goers.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I can see a lot of issues with Disney guests using these. With the number of strollers and other wheeled conveyances that are used there and not to mention the brain fart people seem to have when at WDW, I can see lots of struggles. Can you just see the grandma trying to get in the entrance with her ECV, which is pretty narrow, and then ramming into the side of the door, etc. The number of cars that they will have to "pull off to the side" will be very high. I can see many back ups.

Disney maintains their own accessibility standards beyond what is required by the ADA and the Florida Building Code – Accessability. The doors will have sufficient clearance for ECVs and strollers along with level loading.

 

[Incomudro]

Disney maintains their own accessibility standards beyond what is required by the ADA and the Florida Building Code – Accessability. The doors will have sufficient clearance for ECVs and strollers along with level loading.

The dimensions of clearance are just a small part of the equation.
The people are the biggest part.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The dimensions of clearance are just a small part of the equation.
The people are the biggest part.

Which is a big part of why Disney maintains different standards.

 

[G00fyDad]

Disney maintains their own accessibility standards beyond what is required by the ADA and the Florida Building Code – Accessability. The doors will have sufficient clearance for ECVs and strollers along with level loading.

But you can't fix stupid. You know very well that there are going to be many people that will not be able to negotiate this opening no matter how wide and accommodating it may be. These are the same people that can't walk through a standard doorway without falling on the rear ends. Remember the easy and very, very self-explanatory biometric machines? 1) insert card THIS WAY, 2) place finger here, 3) wait for green light, 4) retrieve card and walk through. People were putting the card in the wrong way despite the arrows. People were using different fingers each time. People were barely touching the sensor and immediately trying to walk through on a red light. People were forgetting their cards. I don't hold much hope for humanity when it comes to loading and unloading on these things. I am sure it will not be total chaos but it is going to be a "you know what" show.

 

[Lift Blog]

I can see a lot of issues with Disney guests using these. With the number of strollers and other wheeled conveyances that are used there and not to mention the brain fart people seem to have when at WDW, I can see lots of struggles. Can you just see the grandma trying to get in the entrance with her ECV, which is pretty narrow, and then ramming into the side of the door, etc. The number of cars that they will have to "pull off to the side" will be very high. I can see many back ups.

There will be no "pulling cars off to the side" except for maintenance. I watch average Americans negotiate gondolas every day this time of year. These are not skiers or hikers but national park road-trippers looking for the easiest possible access to the mountains. It works fine. Sometimes we have to slow or stop the lift and help with strollers but usually people are so intimidated by the whole thing that they actually do quite well. If you can get on an escalator, you can get on a gondola. Wheelchairs, scooters and strollers can be wheeled right on.

 

[trainplane3]

There will be no "pulling cars off to the side" except for maintenance. I watch average Americans negotiate gondolas every day this time of year. These are not skiers or hikers but national park road-trippers looking for the easiest possible access to the mountains. It works fine. Sometimes we have to slow or stop the lift and help with strollers but usually people are so intimidated by the whole thing that they actually do quite well. If you can get on an escalator, you can get on a gondola. Wheelchairs, scooters and strollers can be wheeled right on.

I get what you're saying, but @G00fyDad 's post makes a good point. People had a hard enough time using the old ticket machines. Some people have a hard enough time pushing a single stroller over a small bump. Old people on scooters have a difficult enough time going up a stationary bus ramp (not counting the turn to get into position once on the bus). But your point about them being intimidated so much by it that they get on without a hitch, gives me hope. It's going to be a fun couple months once it opens. I'm still hoping to buy into the Riviera just because it links the two parks I spend the most time at with a solid transportation solution.

EDIT: And one more thing Disney gets more than national parks, are families. Specifically families with young kids. Having been to WDW nearly 25 times now, the amount of stupidity I've seen amazes me. Prime example: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/new-gondola-transportation.924477/page-270#post-7831349
Not trying to go on the attack. I really appreciate your expertise on gondola systems around the world!

 

[jaklgreen]

There will be no "pulling cars off to the side" except for maintenance. I watch average Americans negotiate gondolas every day this time of year. These are not skiers or hikers but national park road-trippers looking for the easiest possible access to the mountains. It works fine. Sometimes we have to slow or stop the lift and help with strollers but usually people are so intimidated by the whole thing that they actually do quite well. If you can get on an escalator, you can get on a gondola. Wheelchairs, scooters and strollers can be wheeled right on.

The type of people that go to WDW is much more varied then someone who travels to parks knowing it is going to be more physically demanding. There is a reason why you see so many ECV's at WDW and not at national parks. Plus the number of elderly that go to WDW is also high. And the elder brain does not function like a younger person's brain. If they come across something that is different, the first reaction is to stop dead in their tracks no matter where they are. We do not take my grandma on an escalator for this reason. I think Disney probably thought like you do, "what's the big deal?" But I don't think they really looked at the whole picture on the type of people who visit the parks. There will be issues, many of them, if they choose to make the gondolas the only transportation for these resorts. I would definitely keep the buses running for those with ECV's and the elderly, especially those who have issues with walking.

 

[Incomudro]

But you can't fix stupid. You know very well that there are going to be many people that will not be able to negotiate this opening no matter how wide and accommodating it may be. These are the same people that can't walk through a standard doorway without falling on the rear ends. Remember the easy and very, very self-explanatory biometric machines? 1) insert card THIS WAY, 2) place finger here, 3) wait for green light, 4) retrieve card and walk through. People were putting the card in the wrong way despite the arrows. People were using different fingers each time. People were barely touching the sensor and immediately trying to walk through on a red light. People were forgetting their cards. I don't hold much hope for humanity when it comes to loading and unloading on these things. I am sure it will not be total chaos but it is going to be a "you know what" show.

I often marvel at how some people are unable to step across open thresholds without stopping.
As if there is some impediment in the way.
Ever notice how many people without bags insist on going through the bag check entrances of Disney Park entrances, when there are wide open areas with attendants encouraging them to go through?
Ever notice how people pile into one or two entranceway turnstyles when there are many open and empty turnstyles clearly visible just to the sides?

 

[lazyboy97o]

None of these concerns are unique to the gondola system. Might as wel go fill every thread with the same “concerns.”

 

[drizgirl]

It's going to be fascinating to watch the reaction as groups are told they have to split up based on weight and car capacity.